 Poster: A snowHead
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OK, someone has mentioned a 'nominal flex index of 70' with the implication that this is not good. This has caused a number of questions that I would like to clarify.
1. So which direction does this scale run - is a higher number a stiffer boot?
2. I know that stiffer boots are preferred when skiers get more advanced - that much is clear from reading threads. However, 'bend ze knees' is also encouraged. I think I am missing something and I'm not afraid to look an idiot and ask. If you are going to 'bend ze knees' surely this involves flexing the ankles. Flexing the ankle must be easier in a boot with more flex so why is stiffer better? I can only assume that it is possible to flex the ankle too much.
Clearly I have missed something despite reading loads of threads - please tell me what I have missed? Ultimately this will lead to the thought do I need stiffer boots? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Megamum, higher the number the stiffer the boot. A 'race boot' would be in the region of 150. 70 is very soft. Bend zee knees is not a good thing to focus on, and you're right it should be bend zee ankles so you don't want to be in too stiff a boot otherwise it can inhibit ankle movement. On the other hand, in higher performance skiing the forces that you have to manage and apply to your skis require a boot which isn't going to flop in half with just the slightest bit of forward pressure. Do you feel like you can bend your boot forwards with hardly any resistance from them?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar, Then I was right about the ankles - great  So it's a trade-off game then? To answer your question I have never been aware of any force preventing me from flexing the boot at the ankle - however, given the concept of 'bend ze ankles' is this necessarily a bad thing?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Megamum, IME ski kit is always a trade off, and as your ability and confidence improves you begin to look for a different response from it. Until you begin to feel that your boots are too floppy and stopping you from getting pressure on the ski where you want it I guess they are going to be OK for you. In general, if boots are going to be 'wrong' I'd say they are more likely to be too stiff rather than too soft.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, My plastic bank card says this is good news  Thanks!
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Megamum,
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Megamum, if it's any help, since you know how I ski, my boots - as recommended and fitted by CEM - are 85. (But I'm a lot smaller than you, and imagine that must make a difference.)
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Megamum, my comment was based on a general preconception that almost no-one (adult) should be anything less than maybe 90 or 100.
The boots you have were marketed as being designed for comfort more than performance.
Given all that, and the apparent improvement in technique and skill that you seem to be experiencing (based on your and others comments on here...)... I am afraid you may have to consider abusing your credit card.
Sadly, it's quite difficult to find hire shops that will properly fit boots to your feet just for the day.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Megamum, my boots are only a 70-80 flex, bought a couple of years ago when I had just started skiing. I've been increasingly feeling the need to close/strap them up a lot tighter as I've been skiing faster and steeper etc in the last year or so, to get the right response, and I don't think it is just the liner packing down. I've tried to ignore it as the boots don't phsically need replacing, but I have expressed interest in the BootZoo at the PSB though, so who knows what might happen...
I know it's my fault for not getting proper advice when buying boots (I was still in cheap student mentality, didn't know enough about skiing and took a chance at a warehouse clearance, and have been very lucky with the fit etc).
But, here's my grumble folks...
I think the marketing used by the manufacturers is very misleading on this.
My boots are Rossignol Electra E12. They are not on the Rossignol site anymore, but google finds them on plenty of retailers. Who all say things like
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"Medium-stiff flex for the advanced to expert rider seeking increased control" ,
"a stiff (70-80) flex for the advanced to expert lady chargers out there looking to up their game." ,
" the burly performance of a stiff (70-80) flex for the advanced to expert" |
So little old numpty me a few years ago quite understandably thought they would last me as I progressed. 
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wigan, I stand to be corrected but I don't believe each manufacturer measues boot stiffness the same way.....(or they didn't used to....)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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IMO consumer boot flex is all a bit of a non-issue. Sure at higher levels and when racing you may have specific requirements re stiffness but I find it hard to believe that most recreational skiers need stiffer boots than 70-90. My experience on getting back into skiing was that I skied a pretty soft Salomon low end boot (it fitted my feet) for a number of years and never really felt that "too soft" boots were holding me back. So I'd say that until you're skiing everything on piste on the mountain without noticing what colour it is, boot flex is the least of your concerns, assuming you haven't got an overly stiff boot.
IANABootfitter.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Interesting. Never thought about mine - but just checked. It says Atomic 90 on the shell, so does that mean they're 90? Also CEM-fitted. I'm 10 stone. I never feel that I'm overpowering my boots or my skis - I think I'm a non-aggressive skier; I like smooooooooooooooth.
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fatbob, Thanks Megamum, and I's credit cards like you
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You know it makes sense.
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Come in CEM, come in CEM 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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So I'd say that until you're skiing everything on piste on the mountain without noticing what colour it is, boot flex is the least of your concerns, assuming you haven't got an overly stiff boot.
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I'll bet that's right. It's possible to faff too much about these things. Well fitting boots are important once you start doing touchy exercises like skiing on outside edges, but beyond that most of us recreational skiers will get better returns on investment in lessons than in kit.
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Poster: A snowHead
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pam w, But then if the lessons involve skiing on outside edges ......... 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Megamum, I think comfort also has a huge effect on how stiff a boot feels, my first set of boots when learning were Atomic 70 flex, I used them for 1 week but they didn't fit my shin very well so all the pressure was on one area of my shin, I couldn't flex them because they hurt too much, I changed them for a Salomon "supposedly" 90 flex that fitted snug the length of my shin and they actually felt softer to flex because they fitted evenly. Now I've worn them out I've gone to a 120 flex in the same boot and I reckon they would still feel softer than my first 70 flex Atomics. Similar flex boots-Brand vs brand I'm certain will feel different but for intermediates and up- I think fit and feel is equally if not more important than flex ratings (within reason).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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remember manufacturers are not alined in flex and 100 slalom on will not be the same as a 100 rossi, atomic etc
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Iski, then yes, you need good fitting boots, but an ordinary sort of pair which fits well, so your foot doesn't twist, should do the trick there. I'd guess (and it's just a guess...) that boots which transmitted every twitch to the skis would not help when doing those exercises, until you got very good at them and had 100% mastered the fore and aft movements on one leg/wrong edge.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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FWIW I have noticed that I am doing mine up tighter - I think I even moved the latch thing to the tighter set of holes in the boot to help, but I must admit I put it down to the boot liners packing down rather than any other need.
I have a BF who keeps telling me that I probably need stiffer boots because my skiing has improved hence the question. Currently mine are on the plus side:
comfy,
still functional,
had some packing put them in a couple of trips ago to tighten them up inside so I now have no heel lift (I was getting some previously), they are probably a tad on the large side (CEM has confirmed this in the past for me, by about one size, but the extra padding in them means they do feel nice and snug now,
they keep my feet warm
On the minus side:
need tightening up more than they used to when I have used them for 10 minutes
Have ten weeks + use on them
and it would seem on the 50/50 side of thing have this flex index of around 70
At the moment I don't feel as though they limit my skiing, though I am trying to keep a pair of (what feels like) hefty great big planks under control
The gear junky in me could easily go and buy another pair of boots, but boots are not 'two a penny' and the skin-flint in me is vying with the gear junky at the moment - hence some information is a very useful thing in the equation.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Four, to be precise, but one's got to start somewhere
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great. Once you can do 4, you can do 40! I can do them much better on my left leg than my right. I had some alignment done on my boots this summer, and hope that will even up. But I can only do them on a fairly gentle slope where it feels as though all my movement is side to side, rather than doing anything very clever fore and aft. We did some "fore and aft on one leg" with Fastman, but that was in a straight line!
You need the fore and aft for the one legged 360s, that's for sure, but I don't think I'll live long enough to get round to them!
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pam w, I detest 360s, even on two legs, they make me feel dreadfully dizzy.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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remember manufacturers are not alined in flex and 100 slalom on will not be the same as a 100 rossi, atomic etc
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Agree with this & only adds to the confusion, I wonder how many people have steered away from their ideal boot purely based on the flex sticker!
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| Megamum wrote: |
| they are probably a tad on the large side (CEM has confirmed this in the past for me, by about one size,. |
This = get new boots of the correct size, forget about stiffness etc etc, getting the correct sized boots will have a massive difference.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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kitenski, Even if they are now padded out to point of feeling nicely snug?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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they make me feel dreadfully dizzy
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yep, me too. I used to do somersaults on a trampoline; now I almost throw up after a head over heels on the sittingroom carpet, playing with the grandchildren. It's age, I think, but such a grand excuse for not doing 360s!! I was playing with one of my grand-daughters in a park with a steep grassy bank a couple of weeks ago. She wanted me to roll down it with her, and - of course - I did. Big mistake. I had to pretend I wanted to lie spreadeagled at the bottom with my eyes closed for a few minutes. I'd forgotten how fast you pick up speed rolling down a grassy bank and there's no way I could have stood up. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - daft old bat. the kids seem completely immune to dizziness, or to like it. I do wonder whether it's an inevitable component of ageing, or whether I'd be OK if I'd kept on doing somersaults.
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You know it makes sense.
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umm, it`s late and i`m sleepy.
My understanding is that manufacturers now measure flex in the same way.
I would still counsel that anything less than a 90 flex is too soft to allow proper ski contol.
but that's just my opinion.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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FAQ
I must admit that, one hour into a full day of one-legged skiing (not exclusively on the little toe edge!) I did the two top clips up a notch tighter than usual.
