 Poster: A snowHead
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No axe to grind here, I love both sports.
But this season particularly I've noticed far more snowboarders with receding hair than with acne! A lot of brits who go to the indoor snowdomes are still taking up boarding but in the Alps it's starting to disappear. Most boarders out there seem to be people my kind of age (thirty eight) and there are virtually no kids or teenagers learning boarding since wide twin tip skis came along. When I started skiing in ~1984, monoskiing was still pretty cool, and it seems to me that in 2011 snowboarding is in a very similar position to monoskiing then - within a few years it will be the preserve of eccentric middle aged blokes...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Plake, those are my impressions too. Perhaps boarding is on a slippery slope.
[Gets coat]
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Plake, There is something in that, but we still have plenty of awesome young kids coming through out here. By their own admission, the big manufacturers of Snow and Skate stuff can't believe that they get away with selling such shite to so many and are themselves sure that it's on the decline. It will remain for sure, but Skiing is now cooler than ever before, no longer reserved for the rich, as travel is now so much cheaper and Snowboarders set the way for budget accommodation.
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word up coffin dodgers, skikes are where it's at, sick
peace out, keep it country
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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 barry, Do you know how to say being late in French?
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Plake, interesting topic. I think snowboarding has found it's place in the market, will always be around, but agree, with new ski tech the boom of the 80's is passed. But I am sure snowboarding will still be here in 10 years and even longer. Only this week, I have already had 4 youngsters try out boards. For sure one of them is hooked. I like to do both depending on the conditions and always suggest that is the best approach for those able to master both sports. 
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HAving lived in a relatively snowboard free place like Verbier for so long I was hoping to see the end of snowboarding. Living on the West coast of Canada you soon realize snowboarding will never die. The kids here still think it's cool.
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Maybe they are all dead?
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skiing will always be more popular because it is easier to learn, boarding may well drop off but will not disappear completely 
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The people taking beginners lessons at our local slope are generally late teens early 20's. It's rare I see anyone one 30+. I'd say they are out numbered by ski beginners 10-1.
The odd thing is that most of them have no plans to head out to the snow in the Alps.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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parlor, why would you be so keen to see it disappear?  Bit of a mean small-minded attitude, don't you think?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Snowboarding boomed in the 90's and early noughties. Skiing actually learned from it and from skating, twin tips skis and parks sprung up everywhere and skiing became cool again.
Does this mean snowboardings is finished? I doubt it. It has more or less reached its maturity and balance. Numbers may fluctuate along the years but that's about it.
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No it won't.
It's a cyclical boom/decline, in ten years time you'll probably be saying that you're surprised how popular it is compared to now. Sure numbers in europe are tailing off, but as said go to NA and say the same thing.
The one thing that cannot be denied is the impact snowboarding has had on the whole wintersports deal, on so many levels. Considering it came from nothing, but maybe 25-30 years ago, and has changed things for ever, despite the obstacles, that's no mean feat.
Who cares anyway? Just enjoy what you do and ignore the bigotry.
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You know it makes sense.
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| BCjohnny wrote: |
No it won't.
It's a cyclical boom/decline. |
Correct. Right now snowboarding is on the down, and skiing is on the up. That will be reversed, and then again, and so on.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Can we just remember the roots of boarding?
In the early days if a kid said to mom and dad they wanted to be a boarder they would look in horror as it meant they were about to drop out of Uni, bum around for the next 10 years living the dream untill their body was fooked and end up in a badly paid job, drinking and telling stories to influence the next generation of youth. You were a rebel not following the rulebook of life and you were an individual. If you saw a new boarder they would be taken under a wing by a posse and nurtured.
Now...its something you do in a gap year it's defo not a way of life. It's something you put on a CV! There are so many boarders about you throw dirty looks at each other instead of slap and touching fists. If something breaks they get a credit card out, CREDIT CARD, we were begging gaffer tape from a French shop before pinching the whole roll!
I could go on but I'm depressing myself!
In response to the OP, bring on the decline. Fook skiing, Fook the olympics, viva la resistance! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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manicpb, yeah baby !!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Only skied 2 weeks this season - but on those I got the impression that boarding is still strong.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I would say a larger percentage of brits snowboard than say the french. I asked a mate who has worked in the alps for 15 years and skis and boards better than anyone I know which he prefers, he said on an epic powder day he would always reach for his board, but as there are only a handful of these a season the rest of the time he skis.
his reason for this is that skis are far better in varied conditions than a board, eg hardpack, ice, moguls etc etc and there is whole lot less faffing around with skis.
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while fat skis seem to have closed the gap, it seems to me to be generally accepted that snowboards are still at least 38 - 43% better in deep powder. hence as long as there is powder, there will be snowboards.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| monkey wrote: |
| snowboards are still at least 38 - 43% better in deep powder. |
I love this.
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I think that poeple are not getting themselves hung up on just one sport any more. Where you start from will always be there, a boarder will always be a boarder and a skier will always be a skier, but each is now crossing over to the other, i think mainly due to conditions and what's on TV at the moment. I do both, skiing being my preferance, this year my board only saw the light of day for 2 runs as the snow was so gloopy the board was just sticking to it in places, skis on the other hand worked brilliantly. Needless to say, it looked like many more skiers than boarders. My opinoin is that the "them and us" culture is on the decline rather than the sport of boarding.
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| ricfrench wrote: |
| My opinoin is that the "them and us" culture is on the decline rather than the sport of boarding. |
That would be good news if true. The silly infantile tribalism is by a country mile the worst thing about the sport(s).
Unfortunately, people being people (and thus, by and large, complete shitbrained idiots), I suspect you're wrong.
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I don't think it will die absolutely but there are some definite trends
- For those travelling further away from lifts, snowboards have obvious limitations and skis have closed the gap in powder performance and are fun again
- Splitboards will remain a niche
- Urban kids still think snowboarding is cool and will buy all the junk that keeps Jake Burton in a very comfortable lifestyle e.g. go to one of the tamer west coast resorts in the US and it will still be mobbed by well off teenagers outfitted top to toe in new kit.
- When its a sport being done by 40 something lawyers and dentists its long lost its rebel/dirtbag image
- The UK market is so biased toward jibby spinny stuff that its hard to find anywhere stocking a board that would pass for respectable open mountain performance purposes.
- Old school snowboarders will continue to remain cool - I've met a couple of older guys in my travels that turned out to be industry legends, keeping a low profile, doing it for the love.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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no
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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My local ski hire shop doesn't rent boards, the owner told me three seasons ago boarding was losing popularity among teenagers against twin-tips etc
Personally I observe there are fewer boarders now than eight years ago when I started ski-ing again with my family.
I don't think it will die out, though it may wax and wane a little. I too see a lot of grey hair on boards; thus the distinction among kids, that ski-ing is something your dad does, whereas boarding is something your mates do, may be disappearing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I am sure someone told me this 20 years ago.
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You know it makes sense.
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Dot., Bye 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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SMALLZOOKEEPER,
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Poster: A snowHead
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I can't see it dying but among alpine nations is does seem to be in decline, a higher proportion of brits seem to snowboard because they think it’s cool. A snowboard is a poor mountain tool compared to skis and I think it gets to people eventually. Flats, lifts, poor piste performance on hardback and lack of touring options all contribute.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| narc wrote: |
| I can't see it dying but among alpine nations is does seem to be in decline. |
Nothing to back this up but my own observations but really not convinced. I think the uptake having slowed down because skiing has regained some of it's cool image might give the impression to some of a decline but I am really not sure that is what is happeneing in reality.
The rest are the usual cliches about boarding, which have some element of truth of course but are also not really as bad as usually said.
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| A snowboard is a poor mountain tool compared to skis |
That has got to be put in the context of what the rider is after. And also depends on the user's abilities..
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| And I think it gets to people eventually. Flats, lifts, poor piste performance on hardback and lack of touring options all contribute. |
Flats are easily negotiated once your technique is up to scratch which doesn't take that long. I used to have nightmares about them but about 3/4 weeks into my boarding career, no more fuss.
Lifts: if you're talking about bindings then if you're the type to ski straight off then yes you loose a few precious seconds but no great deal in the grand scheme of things. Plenty of step-in options as well. If you are talking about drag lifts, just as per skiing, a bit of practise and you're away..
Hardpack: sharp edges and good technique see you through that..
Lack of touring options: I agree but then touring is still only practised by only a minority of the overall skiing population so I doubt it is a factor in the popularity or not of snowboarding.
Everything else is down to personal preference. These days I prefer the fun/sensations of snowboarding. I still love skiing, which is my "initial" sport (33 years of skiing vs 5 years of boarding). The either/or is really something people should stop...
Try both and realise it's two different tools, they do not have to be compared...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
A snowboard is a poor mountain tool compared to skis and I think it gets to people eventually. Flats, lifts, poor piste performance on hardback and lack of touring options all contribute.
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In the sense that ski mountaineering/touring is better for getting somewhere I think you are right. I suspect most people who have skied and boarded would agree the board will be better for when you reach the untouched chest deep powder bowl you have hiked all day to get to. Both are therefore, to some degree a compromise.
Flats in resort aren't a problem for any boarder with more than 10 days or so under their belt. The stuck people are the new boarders on poorly waxed rental boards.
Poor piste performance is a question of ability. I agree however that it's easier to be better on piste on skis than it is to achieve comparable skill on a board on piste.
Hardpack performance is about sharp edges - shouldn't be an issue. I found when skiing recently that on hardpack i struggled more than on the board because edges would slip independently of each other, whereas on the board you are all attached so you only have to balance in one plane (poor description i know but you get the message).
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I do both, skiing being my preference, this year my board only saw the light of day for 2 runs as the snow was so gloopy the board was just sticking to it in places, skis on the other hand worked brilliantly.
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Is this right? When we were in PDS this year it was super slushy in places and even the good skiers were all over the show. On snowboards it was no trouble at all. I thought slush was a pain when skiing because it can slow your skies independently of each other hence throw you off balance. On a board, slush is easy peasy.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Is this right? When we were in PDS this year it was super slushy in places and even the good skiers were all over the show. On snowboards it was no trouble at all. I thought slush was a pain when skiing because it can slow your skies independently of each other hence throw you off balance. On a board, slush is easy peasy.
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Sounds like they weren't very good skiers then. Slush is both fun and easy on skis if you do it right. What are boards like in moguls (never seen a boarder making 'em look fun)? D'you still reckon boards are better than fat rockered skis in powder? Genuinely the only place I can see a board being an advantage is on a rail - unless you just find them more fun.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Tue 19-04-11 16:09; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I worked a season in '93 (yes I know, I'm old) and I was genuinely jealous of boarders, not on real light fluffy powder days becasue I could ski that on skinny 200cm planks but when the powder got cut up, heavy, crusty, etc - that looked so much more fun on a board. If I'd worked a second season I would have definitely split my time between skis and a board.
These days, and for the last few years, I've never been jealous of boarders. Skis just seem better in almost every situation. I guess if you are getting out of a helicopter at the top of a deep untracked bowl then a board could be better but most of us have to be a bit creative to get access to powder (skinning, traversing, working your way through rock bands, over rises, etc). Don't get me wrong, I know that skilled boarders can get anywhere I can but not as easily as I can on two planks, with 100m under foot and freeride bindings.
I don't think boarding is going to die but I do think it will continue to lose share for a while and I don't think it is cyclical - it will settle at a lower level.
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| monkey wrote: |
| Hardpack performance is about sharp edges - shouldn't be an issue. I found when skiing recently that on hardpack i struggled more than on the board because edges would slip independently of each other, whereas on the board you are all attached so you only have to balance in one plane (poor description i know but you get the message). |
Hardpack performance is more than just sharp edges, the width and torsional stiffness is very important (hence 65mm race skis) and a snowboard is always twice the width or more than a ski. For piste performance I am lucky if I see more than one boarder actually carving turns in a week of skiing and if they are, it's not on an all mountain board.
I'm interested by comments saying one edge is better than two for balance. For pow and slush I can see it since teh skis are affected independently but on packed snow 90% of your weight is on one ski anyway and you have the inside ski tracking there for balance if needed - with one edge on a snowboard if it goes you are gone.
I'm interested in how snowboards deal when things get tough off piste: billygoating, difficult entrys and serious steeps. I can see having feet independent and poles making life much much easier.
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narc, Watch the Jeremy Jones Tour Rond video if you want to see arguably the best snowboarder in the world get freaked out and bottle it on his single edge grip. No criticism of JJ, the guy is a total rockstar with more talent and dangly bits in his little finger than I could ever aspire to, but a pretty telling insight into equipment limitations.
Snowboards do work in certain situations quite well (e.g. a no travel pivot in a tight chute) but then have obvious limitations in others (e.g. you have no option to simply walk over some rocks in your path when you can't afford a skis/board off situation). But the debate is skewed by the participants - anyone who has skied and then boarded a relatively challenging long traverse (even toeside) and tells you that boarding is just as easy is a baggy pants on fire liar.
Edited for my poor memory as identified by below.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Wed 20-04-11 14:39; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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fatbob, think it's Jeremy Jones who poos himself in that circumstance
i've seen it said that snowboards have an advantage in supersteeps for 2 reasons:
1. with skis, when it gets really really steep, it could get quite hard to bend your uphill leg enough to allow you to get most of your weight on the downhill leg and stay in balance
2. instead of poles, you can carry 2 ice axes (i know you can carry an ice axe and a pole in one hand but that never looks very secure, and I am not sure whippets are really meant for self-arrest)
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Arno, aren't those two advantages instantly canceled out by the lack of a spare edge?
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