Drive v's Train v's flying - for DIYers

A snowHead

So I am sure there have been a million threads on the virtues of all, however as a newbie I couldn't find them.

We want to go self catering, so driving seems the obvious choice, can take more stuff etc, but is it the only way. I just think the journey is so long, and it doesn't really seem to save money, even for a family of 4, as we would prob need overnight stops each way

Train seems an good option, we live in Essex, and can get to St Pancras easily. We are thinking Les Arc so easy transfer on teh furnicular, and bus. We can either do overnight each way - but last time we didn't sleep well on the way down, so I am thinking day out, night back and a full 7 days skiing.

Flights, where to? Transfers seem a pain and v v expensive am I wrong? It seems only worth doing if you are with a tour operator.

Discuss please!? Puzzled

cran

Why would you need overnight stops...?

First time we drove to Spain we did overnight stops, on the way there we woke up to the biggest traffic jam we'd ever seen and sat in it for longer than the whole trip would have taken if we just drove through the night, on the way back we got to the hotel after it shut and just carried on to Calais and got an earlier crossing.

Since then we don't bother stopping. Maybe a couple of coffee breaks or an hours kip at 6am in the services forecourt parking (safer than a lay by) but no overnight stops.

I've done about 20 trips from UK to Swiss/Spain/Italy since then and never needed an overnight stop, even when driving on my own and not swapping drivers.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Drive and you have a car in resort to get food and other stuff. Get the train and you are going to be buying everything in resort which will cost you a load.

Fly and you need to get to the airport, sort transfers, and it will end up taking the same amount of time and the cost of transfers and flights for 4 people can be a lot.

I'd start early in the morning, keep the kids occupied, and do it in a day. That's what we do on most trips - they usually run Saturday evening to Saturday morning or Sunday to Sunday, so we leave early Saturday or Sunday morning and do the same Saturday or Sunday coming home.

Our breakeven is usually 3 people in a car that will do 35mpg. Plus we have the car in resort, and our current car will do 45mpg.

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Crunchie13, Flights and car hire are my preferred option of travelling for Winter holidays.

Try www.skyscanner.com to find the best flights, Chambery is the nearest airport to Les Arcs but has relatively few flights from the UK. Geneva has the best choice of flights and it is probably only just over a 2 hour drive to Les Arcs. Lyon and Grenoble airports are also around a 2 hour drive.

We always use www.carentals.co.uk to find the best car hire rates, they compare at least 20 hire car providers and you end up with a car from either Hertz, National or Europcar at prices far lower than booking directly. It is worth looking at the price of 5 seater people carriers, they seem reasonable at the moment.

If looking at car hire from Geneva compare the prices from the Swiss and French side.
There have been loads of threads on snowheads about the merits of renting from the French or the Swiss side but the current strength of the Swiss Franc has made the disadvantages of renting from the French side less of an issue.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

There are some places where a car is a bit of a liability, in-resort. Sheltered parking can be expensive, and unsheltered can mean big digging out (and the risk of being hemmed in my snow pushed up by a plough). Yes, you could save some money with a mid-week drive down to a valley supermarket, but not a vast amount, and who wants to spend their precious holiday time driving down to the valley to shop? The marginal extra cost of shopping in a resort compared to a supermarket, especially if you plan well and take some stuff with you, is pretty small compared to the overall cost of the holiday.

You can take quite a lot of basic supplies with you on a flight, if you are sensible about how much other clart you need.

Driving can be easy (I've done it a lot, and have often driven the whole way myself, sometimes overnight) but it can be an absolute pain if you hit bad weather. You can spend hours going nowhere.

When our kids were young they were dead against driving - three of them, in the back. They were much happier to do an overnight coach, which was also by far the cheapest option. Put your stuff in the coach in the UK, get dropped outside your chalet, with the staff coming down to welcome you and help you carry it up the snowy path. (That's the way it was with Ski Olympic to La Rosiere, at any rate....).

Yes, transfers are expensive but depending on where you are flying to, and staying, renting a car can be a good option, and you can do a huge supermarket shop on the way up.

Crunchie13, when are you going - that makes a huge difference to the calculation about how to travel.

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I usually DIY and fly, but then I dont have kids. Flying is maybe a little quicker than driving but it depends which you consider more trying.
Some people hate all the faff of airport check in, plus needing to sort out transport at the other end while schlepping all the luggage. I usually use the trains for the transfers, then the local bus/taxi, although not been to Les Arcs, so cant comment specifically. I have got the early saturday morning flight and been in various resorts for just after lunchtime, but this was using a transfer bus/minibus. If driving or hiring a car, you may need to think about parking, best to get local knowledge about where it is cheapest/easiest to park in resort.
I have driven to Austria, and it was fine but we did have overnight stops to break up the journey. We found it quite tiring, all the monotonous motorways! France would be a few hours less driving. Do your kids travel well in the car?
I think I would prefer to fly and hire a car, or use train transfers, as I find that less tiring. I can read or nap to save my energy.

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Much prefer to drive as I like having a car while I'm out there. Gives freedom to shop where you want (not just for the ability to access valley rather than resort prices, but also the breadth of choice is far better), pack what you want without the hassle of carting everything around trains, airports and buses, not be reliant on someone else's timetable and gives the option to day trip to another resort if you want. Obviously there are downsides, but on balance I prefer to drive.

Timewise I now find the drive to the French Alps pretty straightforward. We live 90 minutes from Folkstone and I have just got back from a trip to Les Arcs and it was 11 hours door to door (with just me driving), including 45 minute queue at the Eurotunnel terminal at Calais because of Sunday evening traffic. Drive times in winter are about the same unless you are compelled to travel on a Saturday during school holidays when you'd probably need to add an hour or perhaps more.

Crunchie13, if you're heading to Les Arcs by train (which is a good option) I'd recommend you budget for a taxi from Bourg St Maurice up to the resort (about €55 each way from the train station to Arc 1800, a bit more to 1950/2000). It is possible to do it on the funicular, but it is a real pain with all your luggage. It's either a 15 minute walk (up and down a high bridge) or a shuttle bus from the train station to the funicular, then the funicular ride to 1600 (costs €6? per head), then at least one bus from the funicular to your chosen village in Les Arcs, then a walk with all your luggage from the bus stop to your accommodation. If you fly and then hire a car you have a choice of Geneva, Lyon, Chambery or at a push Grenoble airports. Chambery is the closest, Geneva and Lyon are both about 2hr15m and Grenoble is a bit further.

After all it is free

Depends when you're going too. I always drive at Easter, 10 day SC stay at L2A, load the car up with all sorts of stuff. At February half term though I always fly (booking flights as soon as they come out) and avoid France.

Crunchie13, Travelling from Essex, we usually do the following, for a Saturday - Saturday in Les Arcs or 3V's.
Leave early Friday, Eurotunnel, drive to Albertville (usually 10 hrs drive, Calais\Albertville). Stock up with food \ supplies at the supermarket. Stay overnight in Albertville.
Early Saturday drive to resort and ski most of the first day.
On the return, we ski the final Saturday and then leave late afternoon. Drive through the night, early morning tunnel, back in Essex early Sunday.
Takes some preparation and planning but we've done the this a few times now.
Kids have DVD players in the back of the cars and they help feed us in the front. On the way back, they mostly sleep while we share the driving.
Fuel 1200 miles at 40 -50 mpg, toll roads (150€), undercover car parking in resort (70€), all add to the cost but the extra 2 days skiing are IMHO worth it, when divided amongst 4 travelling.

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If you are going to Les Arcs and are within reach of St Pancras I'd have thought taking the Eurostar to Bourg St Maurice would be pretty tempting.

We are also a family of 4 and have travelled to ski resorts numerous times by rail. The main reason we often travel by train is we find it a relaxing and enjoyable way to travel. We are a short drive from Ebbsfleet and last time parked almost by the station entrance. There were so few people getting on and off there we were treated like royalty by the passport control/security staff. When you get to the station the other end if you choose your resort carefully you will not have a long coach transfer as you do when flying. There are no luggage restrictions.

We are trying the drive to the alps this summer but have not been tempted to do it for a winter holiday. We would not want to drive all the way in a day with children getting bored in the back so there would be the cost of the overnight stop both ways. As others have said above in the winter the road condititions are likely to be icy/snowy for at least the latter part of the journey, and the traffic would be bad on changeover days particularly in school hols. There would be the cost of parking in resort and we would not want to use the car during the week. The advantage of driving would be not having to carry luggage and taking more stuff for self catering. However we have managed to take a few basic self catering essentials in our cases on the train (porridge oats, tea bags etc). We buy a few things from the resort supermarket and eat out sometimes.

We have not flown on a skiing holiday for ages. Hate the idea of sitting around for hours at airports particularly in school holidays and do not enjoy long coach transfers either. If you are going DIY and flying you would probably end up hiring a car for a family of four which would make flying more expensive than driving or taking the train.

Crunchie13, return rail fares from Essex to St Pancras are how much (I don't know as I've got a season ticket)? Also, lugging family & luggage from Liverpool St is not pleasant, especially when there are no tubes on many weekends. I'm converted to driving unless there is a transfer laid on.

You know it makes sense.

Is Ebsfleet not a better option for Eurostar if you live in Essex?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

pam w - we decided to DIY for the cost. We are planning 14th Jan for a week, and it appears far cheaper to book an apartment and and travel, rather than via a TO.

The earliest we can leave will be the friday eve, and get to Reims for an overnight, or we leave at 6am on the sat. I am not sure about all the way through overnight as I am rubbsh at staying awake and a grumpy husband is not condusive to a fun start to a holiday!

Snowymum - With the train I can't see when it stops at Ebsfleet as this would be perfect but they don't seem to. Good tip Rob about the Taxi, or are there buses up to 1950? we could save money and go home via bus/furncular.

A snowHead

picking up on Robs point above about airport delays, last week Gatwick was advising people to get to the airport 4 hours before their flight was due. So add 2 hours travel to Gatwick 4 hours wait 1.5 hours flight 2 hours disembarking customs pass ports collecting hire car etc 2 hours drive to resort 11.5 hours.
OR 12 hours driving, as much luggage as the car can take, cool boxes full of fresh food etc etc Very Happy

I would still very much like to try the train but still haven't managed to ...yet Very Happy

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Crunchie13, that's a good week to go, traffic shouldn't be too bad. DIY isn't necessarily cheaper - depends how you do it, and until you've costed in everything, it's hard to tell. Certainly driving with two overnight stops will push the cost up quite a bit - the cost of the overnight stops (and the meals to go with them) would go some way to paying for a taxi transfer.

A taxi transfer is definitely not "a pain" - except in the wallet. it's a lovely way to go. We did it once when our car was off the road (my fault....) and it was terrific.

If you plan well for a week's self catering by car you can really keep food costs down by taking stuff from the UK (a trivial example - people buy entire bottles of ketchup and cooking oil in a French shop, then leave 85% of it for the cleaner to take away). But there's a lot of wear and tear on your car (and possibly the drivers too) which nobody takes into consideration.

There's no definite answer to your question - people vary so much. Some people are very intolerant of airports, some kids are very intolerant of long car journeys. Some people will stay in a Formule 1 Hotel to keep costs down, others think an en-suite bathroom is a Basic Human Right.

One other thought - if cost is a big consideration, and you are not dependent on a TO, you could look at less expensive resorts, where passes, lessons and cups of coffee (not to mention apartment rental) could cost you a fair bit less.

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Hells Bells, Ebbsfleet if you are driving and leave the car there is ok, otherwise it's St Pancras by rail. If Crunchie13 knows an easy way to get to Ebbsfleet it's not a route I know - she might live nearer the Dartford crossing than me which might influence it

edit: just looked it up, apparently you change at Stratford for Stratford International - only problem is the interchange at stratford; you, might as well well go to St Pancras.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Doesn't the direct Eurostar service go via Ashford International rather than Ebbsfleet?

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pam w - I suppose it is balancing cost v flexibility v choice. I have tried to find equvilent options via TO an dthey are v v expensive. Kids are fine in teh car, and we are happy with simple accommadation. and we could save money filling the car with food frm the uk.

but with simple organisation, we might be able to do a bag of basics and we won't have skis/boots.

Resort wise \i think we are sold on Les Arcs as we love big skiing areas, and like the look of the resort - v kitcsh, american!

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Crunchie13, re buses from the train station to 1950 / 2000.... don't.

As they are 'normal' buses, they go via all cowsheds, including 1800; last year were €12 each, one way; take forever ( well over 1.5 hours) - far better off with a taxi. Done it once, never again.

On the way back, absolutely use the free bus and funicular, get to BSM with time for breakfast prior to boarding the Eurostar, it is very straightforward. You'll have become used to the route during your week in resort, so will feel a lot more confident.

We've already booked the direct daytime train for Easter as a family. A lot of times we've changed in Paris which is fine too - oh people complain about getting from Gare du Nord to Gare de Lyons, but it's nothing. So if you can't get tickets for the direct train when you want (but 14/1/12 can't be too full yet) go to Paris and get a connecting TGV. IIRC one of our guests also did it changing at Lille, which is even easier.

Have driven down a few times both winter and summer, (indeed, we leave this Fri for a drive down for mountain biking) but overall, the train is much more pleasant. Some on here advocate the no-stopping routine - not for us I'm afraid, we always take a break, usually in the Troyes area - make it part of the holiday, rather than have stressed parents and travel weary passengers.

Haven't sorted out "boys week" yet, but likely to be that same 14th Jan you are looking at. Now, since that is 'special' - ie everyone arrives on different days, and stays for different lengths of time, then the train is slightly more complex (what with no Tuesdays to Paris for example...), but still some use it, some fly: we still get value either way.

When/if we do fly, we go either Geneva or Grenoble - not a lot in it distance or car hire price-wise, it all depends on ease of access to airports at the GB end, and flight times.

1950 Kitcsh? how ironic that phrase sounds... wink

. But I don't think you'll find it that way when you arrive. Just be prepared to have deep pockets for eating out.
And the new health spa? - looking fantastic, but my God, it is going to be a struggle to get the mortgage re-scheduled to pay for the treatments Mrs Roll and mini-roll are expecting...

After all it is free

crunchie and Rob
You are right that the direct Eurostar stops at Ashford rather than Ebbsfleet. Last time we changed in Paris so were able to go to Ebbsfleet instead.

If you are taking the direct Eurostar I would go to St Pancras as the parking charges are very expensive at Ashford and it is further to drive.

In your position I would give the Eurostar a go as the railway station is so close to the resort. Maybe you could try driving the year after and choose one of the nearest resorts to drive to such as portes du soleil or la clusaz.

Crunchie13,

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Mountain Haddock, hardly worth £11.50 per day (£5.00 per day at car parks d and e) parking though, is it?

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Doesn't one of the Ashford hotels offer cheaper parking, even if you aren't staying there ?

Hells Bells, yes, I think it was Ray Zorro who posted about that. Can't find the thread unfortunately.

You know it makes sense.

rob@rar, nor me.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

if I lived near Ashford I'd be prepared to pay that - similar to airport parking charges. It would cut a lot of time/hassle off the journey.

Crunchie13, if your kids are fine in the car, and you're OK with driving the distance, then why not do the kind of schedule rob@rar suggests. It's a long boring day, but I always find that having an overnight stop just makes it seem like two long boring days. What might be well worth considering is booking a Formule 1 for the final Saturday night, somewhere within three or four hours drive. Pack up your apartment, get the baggage in the car with a change of clothes near the top of the heap, ski all day on a nice quiet Saturday, then change, drive for an hour or so, have an early evening meal then drive a few more hours (kids asleep, worn out from skiing?), stop somewhere around Dijon in a F1 or similar (shouldn't be any need to book - and you won't know in advance how far you are going to get) then get a decent night's sleep, crossing back early afternoon Sunday, home in time for kids to settle back in and get an early night for school on Monday.

Try to book an apartment with a covered garage included.

A snowHead

A snowHead

I might pay £5.00 a day for the convenience of Ashford; if being at the front of the train was the only plus point then that wouldn't do it for me

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Crunchie13,

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Assuming you're only going for a week, I wouldn't drive. Too far, too much of a faff. Given your proximity to St Pancras I definitely think the train is worth a try, especially if it enables you to ski an extra day. Six days is never enough.

If it were me I'd probably fly from Luton or Stansted to Grenoble and hire a car. Why Grenoble? Because although it's a little further away than Geneva, the airport is a doddle to get out of and the route to Les Arcs is easy to navigate. I'd also look at flying out on Friday and back on Sunday, with an overnight stop at each end of the week, for eight days's skiing.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Done Devon to Chambery or L2A to Bristol in 1 day before now. Devon to Chambery left 5.30 for ferry at Dover, 2 drivers, in Chambery area by 9pm (obeying all speed limits) and it was my first attempt at driving on the "wrong" side of the road. Admittedly didn't make hotel until 10.30 pm but that is because dimwit me managed not to click and print the "click here for location" button on our hotel booking! Embarassed

Would definitely do it again - it has taken somewhat less time than flying has on most occasions - once you've aimed to arrive 2 hours early for flight (+ had a decent run to airport so actually 3.5 hours early) flight's been delayed an hour before take off, waited 30 mins for gate/steps/stand, waited for luggage to arrive etc the times are similar even from stupid places like Devon (and must be better from closer to the channel.

I've never bothered with the tunnel because we've had a substantial drive from Devon, so much prefer the ability to walk around the ferry to being cooped up in the car on the tunnel train - the ferry feels like a break from driving so tend to stop a couple of hours or so beyond Calais

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holidayloverxx, No, we got on at St Pancras, your seat is reserved so no-one else will be in it. No deffo not parking at Ashford at those prices! Shocked

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Hi Crunchie13,

Just to throw another option into the mix, the train journey often works out quite a lot cheaper if you book the tunnel seperate from the train ie reserve a return to Paris on the eurostar and then reserve a return Paris to Bourg on www.voyages-sncf.fr for the french trains. Not sure why this would be the case but we've had guests save anything from a tenner through to several hundred pounds so definitely worth a look.

An additional plus of booking them seperately is that it gives you the option of having a couple of hours stop in Paris to break up the journey with a bit of dinner or something if you want, and the option of a daytime train if it works better for the kids. The negative is that you'll need to change stations (although this sometimes happens on the through trains too) so you need to budget in around €30 for the taxi, or brave the metro with the kids!

I'd thoroughly recommend the train with kids - easier to keep control/less luggage, timings faff than on the plane but more space and less tiring for the driver than the car. The overnight option gives you the Sat to ski both ends too so 8 days skiing for a weeks accom - bargain!

Have a great holiday!

After all it is free

So far train seems to be the most popular option. However my husband wants to wait until mid Sept before booking to get permission from school! Lol. We are planning term time v naughty, but 1/2 term is horrible

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Crunchie13, for 14th Jan you should be just about ok for the direct Eurostar: but if not, the transfer in Paris from one to the other termini is not as bad as some make out. We've done it with 2adults +1 child, 4 +5, 4+4, 3+4... and with a whole host of skis, boots and assorted "stuff". Nay problem lassie.

And as other say, you have choices - morning from St P, and change in Paris onto a lunchtime train to get you in late afternoon/early evening, or Friday night to Paris, overnight near the Gare de Lyon and the 9am TGV out.

Or even the Friday night onto the overnight couchettes, leaving Paris at 11pm, arrive 6:30 am.

Check with Canterbury Travel - after a lull for a year or so, they've returned to being one of our favourite organisers of train travel.

Whatever works for you!

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Drive v's Train v's flying - for DIYers

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