Zell am See - beginning March - any advice

A snowHead

Hey all
Just looking for some advice on if the place I’ve chosen to go skiing is any good.
The place is Zell am See, probably staying in Hotel Daxer. We are 2 beginners and 1 intermediate and so chose that area as it was rated high for beginner and intermediate runs. It looks like there are also many areas close by with more slopes. And we can ski directly to the hotel and have a 3min walk to the lifts.
I was advised to go beginning March but I am worried a bit as I saw some posts where they said that the snow was starting to dissapear even towards the end of Feb.
Anyone have any experience or advice?
Thanks
Alan

A snowHead

P.s. I did read the reports section. I just wanted to find out if there was any more advice.

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AlanB1976, It's a very nice area and there is a glacier nearby at Kaprun, so even in a poor snow year, you will have that as an alternative. I've only been there late March and there was still plenty of snow. I think you'd be unlucky to get poor snow conditions at that time.

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AlanB1976, last year wasn't the greatest for snow conditions in Austria, and almost all of the ski resorts were suffering from shrinking pistes at a time when they would normally be at their best. If you are worried, the glacier at Kaprun is reachable by free bus and will have cover unless the whole of Europe is experiencing a 40 degree heatwave in February.

Early March is usually when the snow cover is at its maximum in Zell. It is a good choice for beginners, and you'll have a great time. Forget about the other areas, as the Maiskogel in Kaprun isn't worth the trip out and the glacier is a long trip for an area you won't particularly enjoy or be able to fully explore as beginners, while Saalbach-Hinterglemm is a great area for intermediates, but isn't covered by your basic lift pass so you'll pay more in the end.

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AlanB1976, as the others say you should be fine, March 2011 was a real anomaly.

Daxer is a great skiing location and the 3 mins quoted to all three uplifts from the valley station is actually true. All three runs back down to that point are blacks so the beginners won't be doing much skiing back to the hotel unless they progress really quickly! Just as easy to downlift back though.

Your hotel is the best part of 2km from the town centre, so you will need to use the ski bus in daytime or taxi at night. You could walk down to town but I wouldn't fancy the walk back up after a few refreshments!

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Thanks for the replies.
robboj, the piste map shows a blue run that breaks off from the runs that go to the town (City Xpress lift). It looks like it goes back to the Schmittenhohe lift. Is that wrong?

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AlanB1976, No its not wrong but it is a bit of a cheek to call it a run. It is one of the access roads used for maintenance on the mountain in summer so it's narrow and, as it's in the trees and thus the shade, it's also icy. It goes from just below Middlestation and winds its way down before heading back up (there is literally a 50m stretch where you have to pole uphill) the valley towards, but not to, the end. So, from where it joins blue 16 you will have a bit of a hike back up to the Daxer unless you take it all the way down to town and get the bus back up?. If you look on google maps it is labelled as Bruckberg and then Kohlergrabenweg.

IMHO its one of those annoying things that ski resorts do. Zell am See is a great place to go but it does not have a blue to the valley anywhere. I think the runs labelled 12 a/b and 16 are there purely for marketing reasons to show a blue to the valley, which, technically, they are, just not ones that I would want to ski?

By all means do it once in the week to see for yourself but if your beginners are complete beginners then they may struggle with the narrowness and tend to snowplough which will be very tiring and not much fun? My advice would be to stick to the runs up top and download on either of the three lifts.

BTW Black 15 was classed as red until a couple of seasons ago. It is really not that steep but by March will get a lot of sun in the day which may make the snow conditions tricky. Apart from the fact that you have to ski briefly across a snow covered road thats the only reason that I can think that they are now calling it black?

I don't know of you've seen this page of the Schmittenhohe site. It shows a video of just about everything, including Blue 16, which appears to start from behind the cable car station. Alas, it doesn't show 12 a/b to show you that you would have to walk back up from the point where 12a joins it.

http://www.gpixs360.com/pois/karte.php?map_id=1

On the snow conditions subject if its any reassurance I would say from the angle of the sun etc. that it was filmed in March! snowHead

After all it is free

That's a nice site. Some of those intermediate runs don't look too bad. Could hopefully get all of them down one by the end of the week (wishful thinking).
Thanks for the advice. It's a pity that there are no beginner or intermediate runs down to the lifts/hotel. I was really looking forward to that. Maybe I should have another look at other destinations. My priority was close to lifts but it doesn't help if we can't ski back there. Might as well take cheaper accommodation elsewhere and take the bus.
..... back to the drawing board...
p.s. from what times do the buses run and how frequently do they come?

Not all resorts have skiing back to the resort at all so don't be put off by the fact that you might have to ride the lift back down.

Runs to the village are often very busy and cut up a lot which actually makes them very difficult to ski especially at the end of the day when you are knackered. This means lots of peoiple falkl over meaning it is even more difficult to ski down them as you have to avoid all the debris.

In Zell the key is, therefore, to be close to a lift which your accommodation seems to be.

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AlanB1976, as Tiger2 has already said, it's not really a problem that you can't have the beginners skiing to the door - there are few places where this is possible in Austria, as the runs are usually 1500+m up, and the village/town/city is usually below 1000m, so downloading by gondola or chair is fairly normal. However, if you want this you can get it in several places, most notably from my experience Saalbach-Hinterglemm, Ski Amade (Flachau in particular), and the Zillertal Arena. The downside is that the lower runs can be 100% artificial in bad years, plus they can be very busy.

The lack of easy runs back to the centre of Zell is due to the shape of the mountain, with steep sides and a U-shaped valley, and this is fairly common in Austria.

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AlanB1976, It's often the case that, at the end of the day, catching a lift back down is advisable - then you can sit and watch people struggling. Some people seem to prefer to struggle down icy, crowded, slopes for ages rather than take a comfortable lift. But there are plenty of places where you can ski back down easier slopes to your accommodation, if that's a priority for you. Plenty of advice available here, if you identify what your other priorities are (and preferably if you also tell us what's not so important to you, as no resort has everything).

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I think it is more that I want what I cannot have. This will be our first European holiday and have built up an image in my mind that is impossible NehNeh

I would really like to be close to the lifts and be able to ski back to the hotel but I find that most of the places charge a fortune. I chose Zell as they were rated high for beginner slopes so there would be a lot for the party to choose from. I don't want a place where we can ski to the door but there are only a few beginner runs and so end up going to other areas on the bus anyway. I will go have another look at Saalbach-Hinterglemm, Ski Amade, and the Zillertal Arena. We are also going by package for the first time (to get an idea of what is involved first), so we are limited to what are offered by the various places.
Thanks

AlanB1976, OK, Saalbach-Hinterglemm is likely to be the only one of those offered by the package operators, but you'll have a lot of choice. It's not the cheapest of places, but it's not Ischgl or St. Anton either. There are a huge number of runs, many blues, and many of them will get you back to the centre of the village - http://ski3.intermaps.com/saalbach/index.asp?Lang=en&Aktuell=Lifte will give you a good overview, select Slopes/Easy to see the number. Hinterglemm is probably better than Saalbach for beginners, as there's less walking on sloping roads in boots.

Crystal are currently offering the Hotel Hinterglemm ( http://www.hotel-hinterglemm.at/html/english/home.html ) on 3rd March for 7 days at £727 from Luton or £754 from Bristol, which is in an excellent central location. There are other options, but the location and/or prices are less attractive. Other operators will have something in Hinterglemm

You know it makes sense.

I just had a look there and it seems quite nice. I like that there are other activities as well (like tobogganing). That will help keep everyone interested if they don't want to ski the whole time.
I am a bit worried that the only review I saw for the hotel says it was noisy and not recommended.... Sad

It also doesn't say how far away it is from the ski school meeting place. Anyone know?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

AlanB1976, you're definitely NOT wanting the impossible. There are loads of places with plenty of beginner runs where you can ski back very close to your accommodation. If budget is a key consideration, you might find end January is a fair bit cheaper. Later in March might be cheaper too - and there are lots of places where the snow should still be excellent.

Are you particularly keen to go to Austria? I wouldn't advise France in early March (too crowded) but later in the month (or end Jan/early Feb) there'd be plenty of choice. There's more hotel accommodation in Austria, though, if that's a key factor. In France the majority of the accommodation is rented apartments or chalets (from cheap and rather cheerless to super opulent) or in the peculiarly British institution of a "catered chalet". That can be a very good option - some are poor but there are plenty of very good ones, and not necessarily expensive. On the whole a catered chalet can be cheaper than half board in a hotel because you don't have to pay for every single glass of wine or cup of tea. Again, catered chalets vary from very basic to exceptionally luxurious - but you don't always get what you pay for. There's a lot of experience amongst SHs of a wide range of chalets, in a range of countries and it's worth getting a personal recommendation.

I sympathise with your wish to be staying right by the slopes - having to walk any distance, or getting on and off sometimes rather crowded buses, isn't a lot of fun, especially for beginners who aren't used to carting their gear around.

A snowHead

AlanB1976, ah the dreaded TripAdvisor website... rolling eyes

When someone from the UK complains that there was no hot breakfast and the staff didn't speak English, I do wonder whether they'd have been better off in Benidorm asking for fish and chips and a copy of the Sun. First, a general observation - reviews are written by people who have some motivation to do so. This means that maybe 10% of those who had a bad experience will write about it on a website, while 0.001% of those who had a good experience will do the same. For instance, have a look at the reviews of the Grosvenor Hotel in London: http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Hotel_Review-g186338-d218409-Reviews-The_Grosvenor-London_England.html#REVIEWS - this is £200 per night for a double room, but has an approval rating of 51%...

No doubt they weren't happy with their holiday - but it does seem that they also had unreasonable expectations, and were a bit blinkered. The complaint about the smell of smoke in the lobby and restaurant indicates to me that they've never been to Austria before - it doesn't have a smoking ban, and while it has improved a lot in the 10 years I've been going there regularly, all public places smell of smoke. Just like most of the UK did in 2006. How quickly we forget.

The complaint about noise is a common one - the rest of the hotel guests are also on holiday, and many of them will want to party, some of them until after midnight (you can tell that skiing is a secondary concern for some wink

). In general, most Austrian bars and clubs shut by 11pm, with those which are licenced later usually in basements and with strict noise rules. If you want to be in bed by 10 with no noise at all, a 70-bed hotel in the centre of a town renowned for its Apres wouldn't be my first choice. This hotel doesn't have a club as part of it, so noise comes from people arriving back to their rooms with varying quantities of alcohol inside them - if you are unlucky and a party of 50 Dutch teenagers is staying on their first trip away from their parents, no hotel will be quiet.

The criticism of the Crystal rep is something I've had first-hand experience of, as we gave up on them partly for the reason that their reps weren't generally very good, spending most of their time trying to get more cash out of you to earn their commission rather than listening to feedback or delivering on their promises. If the hotel staff don't speak English, and the rep doesn't speak German, what use are they? On the flip side, ask anyone who has worked as a rep about their experience of customers, and they'll tell you stories long into the night. Some people shouldn't be allowed a passport, and unfortunately some of those will end up writing reviews on websites.

For more balance, have a look at http://www.holidaycheck.de/hotelbewertung-Hotel+Hinterglemm+Perfekter+Ausgangspunkt-ch_hb-id_2346870.html?agent=hc.gl.00.01 and then use Google to translate it for you. It's 50/50 on whether it is a good place or not - I've no idea, as I've never stayed there, but the location and price both get your attention. I tend to work on the 60/40 rule - I will spend 60% of my time out of the hotel, and of the 40% of my time spent in it, I will be asleep for most of that time. So, if the room is OK and the bed is comfortable, the rest is not that important.

A snowHead

ousekjarr, I do take the reviews with a pinch of salt. I look at both good and bad and see if I can determine a common theme. Problem with that is that you need to have a lot of reviews to determine that. I really laughed at your Benidorm comment. I was avoiding Soll as I heard it was the Benidorm of Austria NehNeh

. I am very relaxed and can fall asleep in a night club with smoke being blown in my face. Problem is that my wife (AKA the boss) likes quite places and when she gets cranky cause of lack of sleep, guess who takes the brunt of that. So the noise comment is concerning, but like you said, it could have come off one person who happened to stay next to the party teenager. The english thing doesn't bother me. I go to other countries to absorb a little of the culture (and know enough German to get around). Problem with Hinterglemm is that there were only 2 affordable places, and the Hotel Hinterglemm was the only one that looked central to the slopes.

pam w, I would like to try Austria and specially don't want to hassle with a chalet just yet. With not knowing what to look out for, I would easily fall for a bad chalet. I thought, to start with, just stick to a package and get a hotel. Then I know what I am going to basically get and can plan for the next time.

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Oh, and for the ski school - there are two or three in Hinterglemm. See this quickly-knocked-up map for locations:

http://www.skischule-activ.at/ - they operate from the bottom of the Oberschwarzachlift, which is a T-bar situated between Dorfstrasse and Schwarzacherweg, which is easily within walking distance.

http://www.skischule.com/home_englisch.html - they operate from the bottom of the Zwolferkogelbahn, probably a bus ride away from the hotel.

Both also operate ski hire shops from the same site, and may provide equipment storage overnight to save on carrying.

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Nooooo..... too much choice again NehNeh

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I think I will stick to Austria. I like the place.
... and I like the look of Hinterglemm so far. But then I like the look of most places at the start. It looks like a small place and therefore close to everything. I'm not a big one to go clubbing. I'm happy sitting in a pub talking about the days adventures.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I think you'll be fine in Zell. I've skied down to the valley with beginners. Not sure exactly the route, but it wasn't difficult. There's a long windy path that heads down to the cityexpress lift that is a very easy cruise. And it should still be covered in early march

After all it is free

except that we were aiming at further up by the Schmittenhohe lift which has no beginner runs to there. I see the hotel Stadt Wien isn't too much more and is a lot closer to the city xpress lift. Then there is just the trouble of taking the bus to the ski school every day (as far as I know, that was close to the Schmittenhohe lift) which is a pain.
From what I see, Hinterglemm looks a lot more convenient.

AlanB1976, I took a second weeker to Zell last season, his first week was 5 years ago. Yes the lessons started at the Schmittenhohe, the bus ride takes 5 mins and they run every 15 mins or so at that time of the morning - we got a seat evey time (bus starts at the City Xpress, which is where the bus station is). We sometimes got the gondola back to the Schmittenhoe to get the bus back to the centre, sometimes took the City Xpress back down, and twice he skied back to the bottom of the Xpress.

All in all, the easy option was getting the City Xpress back down, chuck the skis in the ski room then stomp off for Apres. The lessons will probably finish at the top of the City Xpress or at Schnapps Hans at the very top (ski a short way to the City Xpress).

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So the lessons actually take the people up? I thought they stayed at the bottom and just did that little beginner slope next to the lift.

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AlanB1976, You start on the little beginner slope but as soon as the group gets it together then yes, they do take people up. You can snow plough at the top just as easy as on the bottom and it's better to have a longer slope to teach on than constantly up the lift.

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AlanB1976, the ski schools have multiple meeting points, including at the bottom and top of the main lifts, e.g. http://www.ski-zellamsee.at/en/locations.html

In Zell, most of the learner slopes are not at the bottom of the mountain, but near the top - better snow, shallower slopes, etc.

AlanB1976, it's much better to have beginner lessons up higher - much nicer feeling, and better views, than splodging round on a village nursery slope.

You know it makes sense.

AlanB1976, I would stick with what you've booked. Skiing back to the hotel is not going to be important in enjoying your first big European trip, other things will make a much bigger impression on you. It is the perfect place to go for the all round experience.

The buses are never that busy so the only change I would make is to be closer to town if going out at night is important. The Stadt Wien is much closer and is easily walkable down and back. Read other threads about what I and others have said about where to rent and store skis and being right next to the lifts becomes irrelevant.

I skied in Zell for years and almost never ski back down at the end of the day, it's just too busy, with too many people on slopes they shouldn't be on. The only day I ever do it is a Saturday, when 90+% of the skiers on the mountain are experienced skiers because the tourists are all in transit wink

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Well, I haven't booked anything yet, so it's easy to change.
Going out at night is not important. I hate to say it but I'm too old to battle busy clubs with a bunch of teenagers. I'm more looking forward to just some pints in a local pub.
The reason I wanted to ski back was purely for convenience. I want to wake up early and hit a run or 2 before coming back to the hotel for breakfast (if possible - I don't know what times the lifts operate or sun rises). So while I can catch a lift back down to the hotel, it just seemed a lot nicer to ski back and meet up with the wife for breakfast.
I'm a bit torn now, in that Hinterglemm looked very nice for other fun activities (tubing, sledding). I know my wife will not want to ski all day and I will not spend the day indoors. So a substitute would be to go sledding or one of the others. I don't see Zell having any of that.
So, right now, I'm torn Sad

A snowHead

AlanB1976, the earliest lifts in most resorts will open at about 0830 (some at 0815, maybe), with sunrise in Zell at 0645 on 3rd March 2012. If you hoped to be up with the sun and get 2 runs in before everyone else gets there, you'll either need to join the staff or book into one of the very expensive alms on the top of the mountain which have accommodation, and even then you'll manage a run down, but there will be a long wait at the bottom.

Since just about everyone in the resort at that time of year is there to ski, breakfast is over by 0830 in most places.

A snowHead

hmmmm...... ok, there goes that idea. I was quite looking forward to some early quite runs.
So I've got either
Hotel Stadt Wein in Zell - nice village, nice runs but will have to rely on busses to get where needed
or
Hotel Hinterglemm in Hinterglemm - not as nice runs or village but has close slopes and other activities (sledding/tubing) which is a big advantage

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AlanB1976, flip a coin.

Zell is a city, not a village. A small city of 10000 people, but a city nonetheless. There are 138km of slopes and 53 lifts, but only 77km are in Zell, with the rest in Kaprun.

Hinterglemm is a village, which with the town of Saalbach has less than 2000 people. It has 200km of slopes, and 55 lifts. The runs here are in my opinion better than in Zell as they're higher and many are north facing, but there's no scenic lake to see.

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Looks like you've got plenty of advice on here AlanB1976, but to stick my tuppence in, -Zell was my first resort as a beginner in 2005, and I thought it was great. Found the apres pretty good, getting around was very easy, did go tobogganing too. There was also an event one evening on one of the lower runs with hot air baloons and people on old wooden skis in period dress....we walked up and slid back down, had a really good holiday.

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Skiworld are doing Chalet Stoanerhof in Mayrhofen for £700 just now, Mayrhofen has good apres including some decent pubs to relax in as opposed to dancing on tables, a string of other resorts on the same lift pass if you feel a need to ski elsewhere. IMHO skiing is better than Zell (although I like Zell)

Ski Total have Arraba for £669 and Lech for £699 also good resorts.

All on 4 March from Gatwick

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leedssteve, does Zell have a dedicated tobogganing run or was it just going down one of the blue runs with it? I ask as Hinterglemm shows a dedicated long run but Zell doesn't

After all it is free

AlanB1976, I guess you might have called it a semi dedicated tobogganing run - it wasn't a ski run, it was up a separate hill, but I think it might be a road in the summer? I think it was a closed road, and we were taken to the top in a tractor, there was a small bar where we had gluhwein and chocco mit rum, then raced down the mountain....great laugh, I was rubbish. I would really like to go to Saalbach/Hinterglemm one day too - the apres at the goatstall looks amazing.

Skiing in Zell was great though, and when we were there (Feb 05), there was a foot of snow in the town itself!

AlanB1976, Blue 16 is the tobogganing run in Zell but most people head about 5km over the valley to Bruck where there is a much better one, I think from memory it is over 3.5 km long.

Reading your posts my honest advice is that you will not find a resort with everything you may want. You're going to have to compromise somewhere. Ousekjarr is correct, skiing before breakfast just isn't an option, unless your wife takes a late breakfast which is unlikely as presuming she is one of your beginners she will need to be at the ski school meeting point by 9.45 at the latest.

Zell is not the best skiing, even in that area, but for the experience of your party it will tick the main boxes in terms of access to high gentle slopes with stunning views and a lift infrastructure that is very modern and can take you anywhere without you having to ski down slopes that may be beyond you.

As a town it will offer you everything, quiet bars, busy bars, nice restaurants, shops and other things to do if you're not skiing. Going back to the original point re snow conditions IME it is more likely to be blowing a blizzard in early March than there being a lack of snow. Heavy snow with powder is not the beginners friend.

If its your first trip to Europe with two beginners and you want to get yourself and them hooked on it then somewhere like Zell where you get most of the alpine experience and where it's chocolate box pretty with the frozen lake etc is the kind of place I would go.

I had a week in Saalbach/Hinterglemm last season and thoroughly enjoyed it. I found Hinterglemm very quiet at night and Saalbach a wee bit seedy at night, but for skiing it was fantastic. If your beginners don't take to it right away (my wife didn't) or if the weather is bad they will be quite bored.

Help!!

Zell am See - beginning March - any advice

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