 Poster: A snowHead
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Heyup everyone,
So I'm a beginner to the world of skiing (my gf is trying to convert me from boarding:). I'm looking into all the boots available out there, the different types and prices and things.
Basically from what I can see all the advanced boots give you more control and more precision over your skis. They have a higher flex 100-130ish and cost a hell of a lot more than the beginner boots which have a lot less performance in regards to their comfort, thermal properties and overall design.
My question is, can a beginner get away with "advanced" boots because really I can't see the benefit of investing in a beginner pair only to move onto another pair a couple years down the line - seems like a bit of a marketing ploy. Why not just get a comfortable, fitted, advanced boot?
Thanks! I appreciate any input!
Regards,
Rincewind
(Extra points for anyone who gets the literary reference here:)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Advanced boots are stiffer, which makes them harder work for a skiier.
You are unlikely to really suffer as a beginner from using an intermediate boot, but if you went for a really advanced boot used for racing, you wouldn't like it.
Boots get replaced every 5 years at most by regular skiiers (in my experience) - that means you'll probably be on to a more advanced boot when you come to replace the ones you are buying now.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Monium wrote: |
| Boots get replaced every 5 years at most by regular skiiers (in my experience) - that means you'll probably be on to a more advanced boot when you come to replace the ones you are buying now. |
Really? I very much doubt this.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Quick reply:)
I'm looking at some Head 120 Vectors. They have got amazing comfort ratings and an adjustable flex down to 110 from what the specs say. Really advanced boots tend to be around 150 flex (basically rock) and a lot thinner than the 104mm width in the head boot...
What do you reckon...?
Also got my eye on a pair of Salomon X3 CS - 100 flex and supposedly really good fit due to the heat moulding inside...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If you are heavy and/or progress quickly you might get away with a stiffer boot from the outset. If not you risk learning to ski "in the toilet seat" which is not a good look especially for a kool dood boarder.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Rincewind, OK, I'll be the first. You can't (normally) choose a ski boot "off the shelf" or by the spec if you want it to fit well and be the right boot for your foot and level of skiing. You will hear this lots of times (or do a search on the site) - you need to go to a propoer boot fitter if you are serious about it.
Welcome to snowheads, I claim my extra points, but only cos I googled it.
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Haha nice one:) and thanks for the welcome.
Yeah, that is what I have heard all over the place. I guess I was speaking in more of a general sense, so that if/when I go and get fitted they will ask me if I am an advanced/intermediate/beginner. If I say beginner they will automatically categorise me within a certain section of boots (usually 70-90 flex)...what I need to know is that if I say advanced and get a gorgeous boot (say 100-120 flex) that fits like a glove...will I still be able to ski in it.
One of the arguments I have heard is that an advanced boot can cause beginners to put more weight on the back of the skis and develop a bad habit in that way...any thoughts?
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An advanced boot also has better features. E.g. aluminium clips, better quality plastics, "heat molding", etc. Boots with higher flex tend to be far less comfortable. Just tell the salesman/bootfitter that you are new on ski's, but you are enthusiastic and would like a proper boot which you can use for a couple of years.
You'll be fine.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Rincewind, I don't know the answer to that one, but the boot fitter will have a view. Let us know where you are based and we can give some recommnedations if you like.
truffaut, suggests that a stiffer boot might put you in the back seat. I've no idea whether it's true but I can see how that wou'd be if you are small/light and unable to flex the boot foreward enough
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Rincewind, I started skiing over 34 years ago and have seen boots change from leather ankle boots to plastic rear-fastening boots to the current trend of 4 or 5 clip front fastening. In all these years I have absolutely no idea about 'flex' ratings and I'm pretty sure this is true of most recreational skiers. However, what I do know is that poorly-fitting boots can completely ruin your skiing experience, regardless of 'flex'. Go and see a decent bootfitter and buy the right boots for your feet, don't worry about specifications, fit is far more important.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Rincewind,
| Quote: |
Really advanced boots tend to be around 150 flex (basically rock) and a lot thinner than the 104mm width in the head boot...
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Getting into raceboot territory now... and you watch what the skiers do seconds before and as soon as they finish a race!
I wouldn't go higher than 100 flex. You need a bit of flex when starting out to make sure you bed yourself in to a forward position rather than having your shins shoved into it and your back bottom hanging out the back (as previously mentioned in regards to a toilet seat).
Monium, is quite right - by the time you want/need to get new boots it will also be time to 'upgrade' (it is almost as if the boot companies thought of this all by themselves!)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Rincewind, I went to a bootfitter for beginners boots and despite having them in the shop they wouldn't sell them to me as they said they wouldn't last me at all. Instead they sold me boots which would take me to intermediate standard. As a very early beginner I never had any problem skiing in these and now as an intermediate it is still performing well for me 4-5 years down the road. I would go and see someone that knows what they are talking about - folks here will recommend someone based on where you are, explain honest where you are now, and where you hope to be in 3-4 years time, explain the cost vs. longevity vs. cost issue and leave it to the bootfitter to sell you the boots they will then know you need. I think you will find that most on here who have been through this process will have been more than satisfied with their personal fitting and the resulting boot.
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| Quote: |
Boots with higher flex tend to be far less comfortable
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Indeed - and the OP seems to have the idea that more expensive/higher spec boots will be more comfortable. AFAIK the opposite is the case - but the only boots which will be comfortable, regardless of spec, will be the ones that fit your feet really well. Also, you won't get any of the "performance" advantages unless the boots are a really, really, snug fit (which is likely to feel very uncomfortable, when you first put them on). If the boots you buy are not quite the right shape - or if you aren't properly advised - they might end up being a size bigger than you need, and however many £££££££££££££££ they cost, they won't work right.
See a good bootfitter, tell them honestly exactly what sort of skier you are, and take their advice.
I guess it's possible for beginner/intermediate skiers to be "held back" (in performance terms) by their boots being too low spec. I was once told by an instructor in Austria that I really ought to get some new boots (he'd probably tried everything else to get me doing it right  ). But I'll bet there are far more people being "held back" because they've got boots with all the bells and whistles which don't really fit well. A cheap boot which fits you well will be much better than fancy ones that don't.
Whatever you get, they will feel horrible after snowboard boots!
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You know it makes sense.
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You may learn quicker than an average beginner as a result of your snowboard background but I'd can't see stiff boots helping you when every instructor regime seems to recognise the importance of developing good ankle flex. Of course if you're heavy or particularly strong you might have a natural advantage in flexing a stiffer boot. Also remember that there is s a difference between top end performance and day long wearability in varied terrain. Make sure you see a good bootfitter -they should be able to put you in something that works for you short term and you won't outski too quickly. Written boot reviews are a load of poop as they are either highly subjective to the author or rely on rehashing manufacturer stats unless you're into fairly esoteric features.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| fat bob wrote: |
| ... can't see stiff boots helping you when every instructor regime seems to recognise the importance of developing good ankle flex. |
Agree entirely. As others have said, see a good boot fitter, be honest with them and trust their advice. You probably will make quick quick progress because of your snowboarding, but too stiff a boot will make it more difficult to make the movements that you are trying to learn.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
I guess it's possible for beginner/intermediate skiers to be "held back" (in performance terms) by their boots being too low spec
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Absolutely.
I had the miserable experience of having to use the rental boots at Braehead last November. I have no idea how anyone can even think of learning to ski in them. Even one full size smaller than usual was still too voluminous, no support, no control (too soft).
Ugh.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Eyeopener wrote: |
| Monium wrote: |
| Boots get replaced every 5 years at most by regular skiiers (in my experience) - that means you'll probably be on to a more advanced boot when you come to replace the ones you are buying now. |
Really? I very much doubt this. |
Change mine annually; but I do ski about 180 days a year.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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scooby_simon, sounds about right to me...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| scooby_simon, sounds about right to me... |
I *think* Lockwoods told me around 300 days of skiing. I've only owned one pair of boots, and after roughly 250(ish) days they really are pretty worn out and in need of replacing. They're gonna have to last another winter yet though.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Get the best boots you can afford.
The most important thing is to look cool in the liftline and resto.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Why not get some variable flex boots. I use Lange concept 95´s.
Bought for 110 pounds in the summer. This is the time to buy boots. But dont nessesarilly wait for the sales. You will then restrict your selection.
Find out what you can buy boots for in various shops. Go to your local shop and try on boots. Then ask the local shop if theyt will price match .... or come close to the other shops price.
I dont mean internet here, simply shops that are in travelling distance. I wold not quibble over 25 pounds since that is what you will spend on petrol and your time. IE if the local shop is 25-30 quid more expensive than a shop 40 miles away. just buy from the local shop.
BUT get them properly fitted.
Cheers
Bob
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| glasgowcyclops wrote: |
| This is the time to buy boots. |
I think the best time to buy is when the shop has the widest selection of boots available so they can select the right pair for your feet and your experience. I don't think shops will have their full range of boots available in the summer, more likely in the autumn. You might not be able to get a discount at the start of the season, but is it false economy to save a bit of money and risk ending up in boots which aren't right for you?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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anarchicsaltire, I didn't say I couldn't (!) ski in them. Just miserable though.
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Rincewind, I would suggest that you only buy advanced boots if your travelling bags come with their own legs and are made from Sapient Pearwood.
If not allow me to offer a little advice, find a good hire shop and hire some boots at different levels of stiffness as you learn to ski rather than board, initially it's easier to learn with more flexible boots as you learn the basics however the advice of many here to buy intermediate boots when you do buy is good.
Firstly never buy really stiff boots, race stiffness boots are for just that, racing, if you watch pro racers they tend to do the clips on their boots up just before a race and undo them as quickly as possible afterwards, they are designed to fit as closely to the racers foot as possible and allow them to put as much power as possible from leg to ski, however they are as uncomfortable as anything and can only be worn for short periods, do not buy under any circumstances unless you end up as a top level racer.
Secondly if you have a good set of leg and ankle muscles you may not need as stiff boots as those who don't, for instance I ski on proper GS (Giant Slalom) Skis all be it from several seasons ago, and buy rights should have similar performance boots to go with them, instead I have comfortable boots with considerably less stiffness (around 110 I seem to recall) but this does mean I can comfortably ski in them all day long, but I have very strong legs and have been skiing for nearly 40 years so can get away with that.
So my advice would be to find a good in resort hire shop with a reasonable selection of boots for hire and learn to ski in those, then later on buy a decent set of intermediate boots, by the time those wear out you can ask for more advice 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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"race stiffness boots are for just that"
"they are as uncomfortable as anything and can only be worn for short periods"
Just for accuracy, and while I certainly don't contradict your advice, I skied seasons 2008, 2009 and 2010 in 150 flex full bore boots. Properly fitted they are quite comfortable and I like the support. That said, when I replaced them I moved back down to 130 flex...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I just want to say thank you to everyone for your advice. I really appreciate your experience and knowledge!
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| glasgowcyclops wrote: |
| This is the time to buy boots. |
I think the best time to buy is when the shop has the widest selection of boots available so they can select the right pair for your feet and your experience. I don't think shops will have their full range of boots available in the summer, more likely in the autumn. You might not be able to get a discount at the start of the season, but is it false economy to save a bit of money and risk ending up in boots which aren't right for you? |
You are correct.
THats why I wrote
This is the time to buy boots. But dont nessesarilly wait for the sales. You will then restrict your selection.
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