 Poster: A snowHead
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... Guy's i'm looking at finding a suitable Knee brace that will stop Hyperextention of the Knee and also deliver protection to the ACL.
Basically i need something that will stop my Knee opening up on the inside of the joint and over extending.
I've seen these... http://www.mmbrace.com/mcdavidbraces/kneebraces/428-pro-stabilizer-hinged-kneebrace1.htm Any good?
Can anyone recommend anything that they've used?
I find i'm ok when skiing on normal pistes, but if i have to put extra pressure on the inside of the ski when hitting a compression, or jolt forward when hitting a mogul, the knee tends to hyper extend.
I've been told i don't need surgery but should wear full support when skiing.
Any help or thoughts would be most appreciated.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hey,
Had loads of knee probs, ops and trouble, the knee support your looking at is just that, a support, not a brace, not saying its bad but from your description you need a proper brace. Sadly that comes with a price tag...................but they last for ever! I have this one, comes in different formats but is great, once you've used it a few times you forget it and it comfy enough for all day use. Think of it as an investment!
http://www.donjoy.eu/en_UK/detail_LigamentKneeBraces2_13920_16156.html
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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spud, Try looking at Townsend Design braces: http://www.townsenddesign.com/Townsend_Design/Townsend_Design.html
They are considerably lighter and more comfortable to wear than the Don-Joy, Bregg, CTi and Bledsloe braces that are on the market and as far as I know considerably cheaper. I have a modular of the shelf Rebel which was fitted with my ski boots on, so that there is no problem with the brace catching on my boot. They are, at least here in Germany, half the price of the Don-Joy. My brace cost 500 Euro but it enabled me to ski 5.5. months after a very long ACL revison operation which also reconstructed my lateral collateral ligament as well. I had to prevent hyperextension as well due to the LCL repair.
If you mail the VP Sales they can tell you where the nearest outlet to you is. I found them to be by far the most helpful of all the companies I contacted when I was told I would need a brace for at least 2 years. I have used Don-Joy Bledsloe and Bregg braces in the past and found that although they do a good job, they are extremely uncomfortable when worn all day during strenuous activity. Plus they are mind-bogglingly expensive! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Dr John, you need to take the full stop away from your link! The Cti braces have lots of reports about being uncomfortable unless you have a custom made one. Another well worth looking at from Ossur is:
http://www.ossurwebshop.co.uk/Knee-Braces/ParadigmA-OTS/prod_128.html
I know lots of Canadians who ski with these braces and they don't have any problems. I like the Townsend brace because it is modular and even though it is not made to measure you can get a really good fit by mixing and matching the thigh and calf modules. The technician who fitted mine told me to bring my ski boots to the fittiting - he had ordered different lengths for the thigh and calf modules and put together a super fit. It only weighs 600g as well.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Think that above link in broke, try this;
http://www.ossurwebshop.co.uk/knee-braces/cat_8.html
I have a CTI OTS, 13 years old, only needed 2 refits of the soft bits in that time, approx £80 a time. Dont use it now as I dont play hockey anymore, was good for support but the upper thigh piece sat quite proud of the thigh and was quite obvious under some kit and a nuisance if you had any more fitted ski pants. Which is why I got a Donjoy as well, more streamlined under trousers.
With regards to the above post about price, a Donjoy Armour cost £400 so less than the 500 Euro paid above and certainly not twice the price as intimated, Its personal choice I guess, if a certain brace enables you to continue a sport you love then you'll no doubt recommend it to others, I did! 
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Really appreciate the reply's and links lads and lasses.
Hearing of positives and negatives is a real help.
As i'm looking to be wearing one everyday during my Season in Canada, it makes sense to get one fitted with my Ski boot's on. I was wondering about the clearance between the top of the boot and the bottom of the brace. It seems it's no problem then...
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The Donjoy Armour is available in a ski version, i've got the standard one but its fine with my boots (Fisher) the various configurations available for most braces is mind boggling! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Worth spending time and effort getting one that you are sure you'll be comfortable in day in, day out. I got a DonJoy and abandonned it after a few days' skiing as it just didn't feel natural. This is not a slight on the brand as I suspect I'd have felt the same with any substantial brace. My trade off was convincing myself that I'd have better chance of protecting my knee in a fall if I wasn't forced into unnatural movement patterns by a big chuck of metal. YMMV.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| My trade off was convincing myself that I'd have better chance of protecting my knee in a fall if I wasn't forced into unnatural movement patterns by a big chuck of metal. YMMV. |
Interesting point, what kind of padding/protection do these things have in case of major wipeout???
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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kitenski, If properly fitted I'd say the risk is minimal - it would take something seriously freaky to cause it to tear through your leg. I don't know exactly but I'd guess that some skiercross athletes if not full on downhillers wear them and they're likely to have far higher energy crashes than any rec skier.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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My surgeon said this "if you fall hard enough that the brace injures you the least of worries would be your knee"
The braces dont have padding or protection, as that would defeat the object of a brace, I bought the Donjoy Knee guard, as I also snowboard and kneeling down is a pain, I've crashed plenty, both skiing and boarding and have never been injured by the brace................just myself!! 
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You know it makes sense.
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rob and sharon, did you get it fitted with Technology Motion? How much on top of the price of the brace?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Dr John wrote: |
| rob and sharon, did you get it fitted with Technology Motion? How much on top of the price of the brace? |
It was fitted at an appointment in Coventry and all came to about £400
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Poster: A snowHead
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rob and sharon, not as much as I though. Thanks.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Dr John wrote: |
| rob and sharon, did you get it fitted with Technology Motion? How much on top of the price of the brace? |
When mine was fitted the cost was included in the brace cost, this was for an off the shelf one though, dont know if its the same for the custom option!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Dr John wrote: |
| rob and sharon, not as much as I though. Thanks. |
agreed, was a pleasant surprise and I think worth the money
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I got a Donjoy which I initially thought was great but I have monster calves which seem to swell up big time after I've worn it for a day, can't be too healthy and I think I might have to go down the custom route.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob and sharon, sorry to be a bore, but to clarify; did you get an off the shelf brace and have it properly fitted, or was this for a 100% custom brace?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Dr John wrote: |
| rob and sharon, sorry to be a bore, but to clarify; did you get an off the shelf brace and have it properly fitted, or was this for a 100% custom brace? |
No worries
I had a consultation and found the off the shelf one provide more than needed support
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Having had PCL twice and ACL once plus other bits on my knees I actually went to my GP and obtained the appropriate letter to visit a Sports Physio Clinic and have been provided with necessary braces!!!! They are off the shelf with some slight tweeks by the pros to make them fit correctly, obviously still have pains etc, but some building up of leg muscles in the gymn and cycling helps keep everything tight together.
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I got a great knee brace from MeridianHealthStore.com It's an online medical supplies store with great prices. The one I have is a hinged knee support.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I have an off-the-shelf CTi which I've worn for all skiing for about 14 or 15 years. I totally forget its there and it allows me to ski anywhere. If its properly fitted and you don't change weight it should be very comfortable. I take it with me when getting new ski boots just to make sure they are compatable.
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rob and sharon, I have an appointment tomorrow to have a CTi brace fitted, tweaked appropriately. It's at bodyfactor physios based in Snow and Rock Covent Garden.
The challenge is to leave without buying some more kit that I don't strictly need. I will, of course, fail...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I've got a custom made Donjoy which I was measured up for 2 weeks after rupturing ACL skiing. I've got large quads and calves (cyclist as well as skier) and have found it to be perfectly comfortable for all day skiing and touring. Knee consultant recommended this brand and the custom measuring / fitting aspect. I prefer to have a base layer between the brace and my skin though. After fitting, I was back skiing 4 weeks after the initial rupture, before undergoing reconstruction surgery. I've heard great things about other brands as well.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Kirrie, re the base layer; I was told to wear my CTi directly on the skin and not over a base layer, otherwise it won't work as designed. I don't want to render a £400 investment redundant, so I'm doing as I'm told.
I've also seen a bioskin thingy in S&R that says it's designed to be worn under a brace. All very confusing.
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If you're in UK you can get these prescribed on the NHS. Get your GP to refer you to an orthotist,. Mine wanted to prescribe a DonJoy but was quite happy to get me the Townsend Rebel. Cost to me - nada!
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You know it makes sense.
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Dr John, bioskin or tubigrip can be worn under the brace without any problems of it affecting the performance of the brace. what does not work is wearing any type of clothing under the brace. So the dickheads you see wearing the brace over their salopettes are really just saying "look at me, I can afford to waste £xxx to show I have a brace". but it sure as hell is not functioning properly and could actualy result in causing other damage!
I wear a length of tubigrip under my brace and have done for many years. I fold it back over the ends of the brace and it is simply to absorb sweat and prevent chafing!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Samerberg Sue, cheers. I'd have thought that having something between the brace "grippy bits" and the skin would cause some slippage in the event of a twisting motion? Happy if not. I'll have a fiddle at home, see how it feels.
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Poster: A snowHead
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at the risk of upsetting admin (as I do work for the company) have you considered a ski~mojo? Not a brace but many medics are now reccomending it for ACL protection spud,
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've go too much Mojo as it is, to worry about having anymore... 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| ski bore wrote: |
| at the risk of upsetting admin (as I do work for the company) have you considered a ski~mojo? Not a brace but many medics are now reccomending it for ACL protection spud, |
Really? Have you got clinical studies to support that claim? Sounds implausible and just the sort of stuff you ought to be avoiding if you don't want to be regarded as a quack product.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Dr John, Make sure you put the brace on while your knee is flexed to about 45 degrees and do up the strap at the top of the calf first. Then go to the top strap, then bottom then the mid-thigh one last of all. I then stand up and tweak then in the same order. Mine sit tight all day as a result. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thank you for the considered and construtive critisism - I'll leave you to carry on your discussion
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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ski bore, What's wrong with answering the question? I'll think you'll find the ski mojo has positive write ups on here and given the state of my knees I can forsee a day when it might be the difference between me skiing and not but I'm not sure that punting around a view that despite not being designed as a prophylactic brace it might serve as one is the wisest marketing approach.
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Samerberg Sue, ta. I foresee an uncomfortable and sweary couple of first days ahead. I've got a bioskin, but think it'll be a bit uncomfortable with that and the brace on. Will experiment.
ski bore, I'm not sure how a mojo will help with ACL, seeing as ACL is only an issue when twisting. I've done plenty of gym work so straight up n down strength isn't an issue.
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There’s nothing wrong with answering any questions – But as you say it’s "the sort of stuff you ought to be avoiding" - so I'll take the advice and avoid it in future.
My post was not a marketing rouse - I just wanted Spud to be aware that there was another option - which they have clearly dismissed, hence my graceful withdrawal from the discussion as we certainly do not want to be considered a quack product or a gimmick. I'm not just in this for the money (as there isn't any) but part of the pay-back is getting the feedback and unsolicited testimonials from satisfied customers who we've helped to continue enjoying their skiing.
As you've asked, I will reply as best I can:- we do get a considerable number of customers being referred to us by their surgeon or physio after ACL ops. We are very careful that we don't give our own opinion as we are not medically qualified - the following is my interpretation of the medical opinion of Dr Binet of Avoriaz Secretary of SITEMSH (society international tramatology et medicine de sports d'hiver or something like that) and member of ISSS (International society for skiing safety):
"Most damage to knee ligaments when skiing happen when the knee is relaxed and bent and subjected to twisting, as when it is relaxed and bent it offers very little resistance to any twisting motion. With a ski~mojo on you cannot have your knee relaxed and bent as the mojo will try to straighten the knee and if you resist that straightening action your knee will not be "relaxed".For this reason the Phantom FootFall ACL injury, which is one of the most common skiing injuries, should be all but eliminated by wearing a ski~mojo".
Not a medical trial - but when we have surveyed our customer base (using a questionnaire designed by Dr Binet) the response rate was over 75% and not one single knee injury or aggravation of an existing knee injury was reported – in fact the only "ski" injuries reported have been:- a double calf strain from a front eject (which the mojo is never going to help with) and a fairly large bruise on the hip - which would probably have happened anyway (as there was bruising elsewhere too) and a broken femur (caused by hitting rocks after skiing off a cliff in white-out) the paramedics attending the skier told him that the mojo had acted as a splint and prevented his broken femur from puncturing an artery and therefore probably saved his life.
We are not marketing as a medical decice as there are al sorts of legal/insurance issues involved with going down that route. We are very aware that this is an increddibly difficult product to get across. For example why wait until your knees are totally shot if there's something that you could use now to take the strain off them an prolong your ski life. My legs too are perfectly OK with straight line strength, but apply the slightest twist and I'm often in agony, but with a ski~mojo I can ski as if my knees had no issues at all. I used to ski with a CTI brace on one knee and a hinged neoprene support on the other but now I just use the mojos. I could drive a car without any power steering or shock absorbers - but why would I want to. I could ski without a ski~mojo but why would I want to?
Anyway - if I hear back from admin, there's a strong possibility that any snowheads on the PSB will be able to try the mojo out for themselves.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ski bore, Thanks and your example of the skier skiing off a cliff counters neatly my intuitive reaction that knee injury might be low in mojo users because they tend to ski quite conservatively. To answer your point for me personally, I'm not a big fan of the "feel" of bracing. When rehabbing ACL surgery I had a Don Joy brace which I abandoned because I felt it was inhibiting natural motion. This of course was entirely subjective. So I'd rather postpone the day when I need something like a mojo and work on muscle strength to stablise in the interim. Plus I'm not sure the mojo works telemark which is where my knee most often gives up in protest.
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Some of our customers are conservative - but many are not, we have many aggressive skiers, quite a large number of ski instructors, Olympic Mogul skier Laura Donaldson and former British Slalom Champion Adam Sullivan.
I too hate the feel of bracing The mojo does not feel like a brace as it is not a brace, it is a support and does not have to be done up particularly tightly at all when skiing I (and others say the same) totally forget that I'm wearing it while skiing. Whatever I do with muscle strength - my knees still complain when I ski. As for Telemark we have a few customers who use it for that too. I was at the British ski tests in Bormio a couple of seasons back and one of the guys from Zag Skis (born and raised in the Tarantaise), asked if it worked for Telemark. When I replied that I didn't know he offered to test it for me: after a couple of hours skiing steep and deep through the trees and on piste he declared that it was fantastic. He was intrigued to see if it worked as well for alpine skiing, so switched boots and tried that too (he told me it was the first time he'd put on alpine boots in over 5 years) he skied the same terrain again and declared that the mojo worked equally well for both disciplines.
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FAQ
