 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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altis, Nah, the link above is to the actual report the link you have made is to a thread about a planet ski report about the Crystal report.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 5-07-11 17:14; edited 2 times in total
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Pretty amateurish report considering for public consumption. Poor presentation , content a bit light, limited references to where stats drawn from. Not really very enlightening, pretty obvious late Easter would cause a long low period, economy is down and a little fanfare about independents being down. Would be interesting to see the effect is low cost airlines slashed ski carriage fees. France has a "high perceived cost position with resort" - the word perceived probably needs dropping, the big french resorts that most UK skiers go to are high cost. Would have been useful if there was a skier numbers breakdown by resort, skier v snowboard numbers, demographic breakdown, UK regional breakdown, summary of other nationals / resort figures, etc.Maybe too much info would be commercially sensitive, but then don't call it a ski industry report.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| waynos wrote: |
| Pretty amateurish report considering for public consumption. Poor presentation , content a bit light, limited references to where stats drawn from. Not really very enlightening, pretty obvious late Easter would cause a long low period, economy is down and a little fanfare about independents being down. Would be interesting to see the effect is low cost airlines slashed ski carriage fees. France has a "high perceived cost position with resort" - the word perceived probably needs dropping, the big french resorts that most UK skiers go to are high cost. Would have been useful if there was a skier numbers breakdown by resort, skier v snowboard numbers, demographic breakdown, UK regional breakdown, summary of other nationals / resort figures, etc.Maybe too much info would be commercially sensitive, but then don't call it a ski industry report. |
Thanks for the constructive criticism!
Crystal actually does have most of the above data but we choose not to give away all of our secrets...
It is called an industry report as we try to give an overview of the whole industry from a UK perspective to press and people interested in hearing about it. It is not aimed at a European audience.
To address some of your points though:
> Perceived cost - we believe the actual cost of your holiday is influenced as much by your tastes and what you like to do on holiday as it is prices in resort. France doesn't have to be expensive at all!
> Skiers vs Snowboarders - generally, this tends to be approximately 85:15 in favour of skiers
> Demographic breakdown - it will come as no surprise that skiing is associated more with comfortably-off professionals, and there is more of a southern bias overall.
Hope that's useful.
Cheers
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Page 15 is the look as us "we are great" pat on the back, I also have a few issues with that page and others. I think waynos, does sum it up well.
Simon Cross,
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Perceived cost - we believe the actual cost of your holiday is influenced as much by your tastes and what you like to do on holiday as it is prices in resort. France doesn't have to be expensive at all!
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I worked all last season in France, no matter how much you try to down play it, France is expensive. simply put 5€ a pint is getting on to be twice as much as back home and that's what holiday makes look at.
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| Dwarf Vader wrote: |
Page 15 is the look as us "we are great" pat on the back, I also have a few issues with that page and others. I think waynos, does sum it up well.
Simon Cross,
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Perceived cost - we believe the actual cost of your holiday is influenced as much by your tastes and what you like to do on holiday as it is prices in resort. France doesn't have to be expensive at all!
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I worked all last season in France, no matter how much you try to down play it, France is expensive. simply put 5€ a pint is getting on to be twice as much as back home and that's what holiday makes look at. |
Where in France are you getting beer at €5 a pint last time I went to Alpe D'huez it was getting on for being double that.
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Kel, that was seasoniare rates, not much of a saving at .50c and that was the cheapest the good stuff was euros more. It was not just the beer I thought the food was up there as well, some restaurants on and off the mountain was taking the wee wee. We could ski over to Italy and instantly make a 20% saving.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Because of the constant wee wee take by resorts over the years, people imho, are going to start doing their Skiing Holidays differently.
More and more people i know, are doing last minute Chalet Holidays and staying in at night, with booze they've brought with them.
Driving, self catering hols with a bunch of mates is getting more popular too.
You will always get the young en's doing an Ibiza in the Snow, and spending a fortune in the Clubs, but people who've grown out of that are now moving on.
Tbh, it's the same in this Country too. More people are entertaining at home with friends. It's cheaper and more fun, unless you're on the pull.
Having to fight through a scrum at the bar, get shafted for 8 Euro's a pint and then have to look like you're having fun is getting boring these day's. Time's have moved on.
The only place in recent years where i've experienced good quality at a reasonable price is Italy. Forza Italia... 
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I agree with most of what Simon Cross says - but though France may be cheaper than Switzerland, it's still expensive. Austria and (if the snow is good) Scotland are starting to beckon.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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spud, I agree
10 pack of cheap 'Biere Blonde' stubbies for 3 or 4 euros (and I'm sure you couldn't get 4.4 pints' worth of cheap lager for £3 over here) and a USB drive full of comedy plugged in the back of the TV, that's evening entertainment for the credit crunch skier!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| waynos wrote: |
| Pretty amateurish report considering for public consumption. Poor presentation , content a bit light, limited references to where stats drawn from. Not really very enlightening, pretty obvious late Easter would cause a long low period, economy is down and a little fanfare about independents being down. Would be interesting to see the effect is low cost airlines slashed ski carriage fees. France has a "high perceived cost position with resort" - the word perceived probably needs dropping, the big french resorts that most UK skiers go to are high cost. Would have been useful if there was a skier numbers breakdown by resort, skier v snowboard numbers, demographic breakdown, UK regional breakdown, summary of other nationals / resort figures, etc.Maybe too much info would be commercially sensitive, but then don't call it a ski industry report. |
For a free-of-charge, publicly available report, it is very good.
Concise and reader-friendly with a good mix of stats and analysis.
If you want the deeper drilldowns, you're gonna have to pony up thousands.
Collecting that much detail ain't cheap.
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You know it makes sense.
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| JAMES COVE wrote: |
if you are interested there's an updated report (on the report!) here, including a video interview with Mathew Prior from TUI.
http://www.planetski.eu/news/2925 |
Good article and interview.
Imv, what seems clear is that a large number of UK vacationers were almost certainly paying for their 3rd, 2nd and sometimes 1st holidays every season on credit back in the golden age of 2007.
Mortgage loans, unsecured loans, overdrafts, credit cards etc.
Now the supply of debt has dried up in 2010 / 2011, so too has a good chunk of UK recreational skiers.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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JAMES COVE, welcome back to snowheads - remember that you don't have to pimp your site to post here  That said I agree that it is a good article and interview.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Tesco do the French beer in 250ml 8 bottle for about £2.50
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I read somewhere that Poundland are about to licence all their shops to sell beer, presumably at £1.00 a can.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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boredsurfin, I'd be looking to get "8-ace" for that £1.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Dwarf Vader wrote: |
| Kel, that was seasoniare rates, not much of a saving at .50c and that was the cheapest the good stuff was euros more. It was not just the beer I thought the food was up there as well, some restaurants on and off the mountain was taking the wee wee. We could ski over to Italy and instantly make a 20% saving. |
You went to the wrong resort; 3 euros a pint for seasonaires in Les Arcs.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Dav wrote: |
| Dwarf Vader wrote: |
| Kel, that was seasoniare rates, not much of a saving at .50c and that was the cheapest the good stuff was euros more. It was not just the beer I thought the food was up there as well, some restaurants on and off the mountain was taking the wee wee. We could ski over to Italy and instantly make a 20% saving. |
You went to the wrong resort; 3 euros a pint for seasonaires in Les Arcs. |
My colleagues were getting it for €2.60 in the company bar but my resort did not have one 
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 6-07-11 18:45; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Dwarf Vader wrote: |
| Dav wrote: |
| Dwarf Vader wrote: |
| Kel, that was seasoniare rates, not much of a saving at .50c and that was the cheapest the good stuff was euros more. It was not just the beer I thought the food was up there as well, some restaurants on and off the mountain was taking the wee wee. We could ski over to Italy and instantly make a 20% saving. |
You went to the wrong resort; 3 euros a pint for seasonaires in Les Arcs. |
My collogues were getting it for €2.60 in the company bar but my resort did not have one |
I didn't include La Grotte de Yeti; 1.50 at happy hour. And happy hour kind of seemed to be most of the time.....!
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Oh happy hours are different again, was not including them.
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Won't the poor fall / timing of Christmas changeover mean that the Christmas week and more importantly the New Year week mean that these won't be able to sell for high prices?
Regarding Easter it is earlier this year but the school hopl (at least where I live) are not significantly earlier.
Filling in the gaps for the rest of the season is a bit of a lottery dependent on conditions at home and abroad.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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PeteMan, there was a similar situation last season whereby Xmas and New Year fell on a Saturday; the TO's changed holidays around over this period to accommodate the change. Crystal started the season with Monday to Monday holidays, this ran through Xmas and then after New Year there was one Monday to Saturday offer to get back into check with Saturday arrivals for the rest of the season. Neilson and some other TOs did Sunday to Sunday until after New Year. I don't think it had an adverse effect on sales (in fact the 5 day week straight after New Year was one of the busier periods of the season).
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Well they don't appear to have changed their changeover dates this year so it's 24/12 or 31/12, both bad IMHO.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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In the latest Inghams brochure I got last week, their Xmas and New year departures are both on the friday rather than Saturday
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| jimmybog wrote: |
| In the latest Inghams brochure I got last week, their Xmas and New year departures are both on the friday rather than Saturday |
That's an improvement for Christmas but no good for new year for anyone with kids.
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| achilles wrote: |
| Austria and (if the snow is good) Scotland are starting to beckon. |
Go wash out your mouth with gin & juice !!! You should know not to associate the S-word with good skiing on this forum. 
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You know it makes sense.
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| Dwarf Vader wrote: |
| Page 15 is the look as us "we are great" pat on the back, I also have a few issues with that page and others. I think waynos, does sum it up well. |
Page 15 had me choking on my tea. Tour operators beating DIY on anything, let alone value for money, is laughable.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| ajrduff wrote: |
| Dwarf Vader wrote: |
| Page 15 is the look as us "we are great" pat on the back, I also have a few issues with that page and others. I think waynos, does sum it up well. |
Page 15 had me choking on my tea. Tour operators beating DIY on anything, let alone value for money, is laughable. |
I reckon I had a good laugh when booking last January's holiday for a single bed at the Falken at Wengen last January - I had been DIYing apart from sH bashes in recent years, but the Crystal deal was unbeatable. And the bus transfer from Geneva was faster and less hassle than the train, which is how I normally DIY the transfer part. I don't think that will always be the case - but it is worth doing a cross check before opting one way or another.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Tue 12-07-11 17:02; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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Tour operators beating DIY on anything, let alone value for money, is laughable.
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ajrduff, quite often not the case - new year, half term, easter, they clearly load the pricing but outside that there are genuine bargains to be had. You won't find anyone more keen on going indy than me but last two Christmas weeks I've gone TO because I simply couldn't get close to the price for same hotel by going direct.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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cathy, I think he meant inedible but an appropriate pedant will be along soon to help.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Bode Swiller, probably what happens when you dope a cross check... 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Bode Swiller, spot on about TO's. Naturally, daytrips and weekenders mean the Scottish skier DIY's most of their skiing but for the week or two I do in the Alps, I relish the fact that all I have to think about is turning up at the airport.
I'd even say that peak week bargains can almost be relied upon to be at the same price or better if you're prepared to book late too. Easter 2011 served our group of five a 6.75 day ski week in Ischgl with short transfers, good breakfasts and evening meals, good sized rooms with balconies, heated kit room, boot driers and sauna etc and snow almost to the doorstep. I'm pretty sure that Ischgl wouldn't have been doable for under £600 a head DIY, even in an off-peak week.
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"That's an improvement for Christmas but no good for new year for anyone with kids." Why?
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FAQ
