 Poster: A snowHead
|
I've noticed over several years that ski racing commentators are very poor at predicting the racers' speeds based on the camera footage. Typical comment is "beautiful turns on the top section, well set up for the glide phase" followed by a split time where it's revealed that the skier's dropped a second on the top section, and are slowest of anyone through the speed gun. Even Chemmy (who rarely makes a prediction, but does occasionally) gets it wrong moderately often.
Is it because it's basically very difficult to see how fast someone is, and what, then, is the implication for race coaching?
For extra marks, we know that racers themselves sometimes think "what a great run" only to find out they were skidding/squeezing every turn by a few mm, and ended up really slow (see TJ's recent post). Is this the same phenomenon?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
awf, Is it because it's basically very difficult to see how fast someone is? Particularly if you are sitting in a studio in Paris watching the same thing you are.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Even watching recreational skiers it's hard to spot some things until you can look in slo-mo and frame by frame. I think it's nigh on impossible to do this with racers unless the differences (such as a new line through a turn, or a big mistake) are obvious. Plus the pressure of doing it live. Not an easy job if you are expected to call the performance before the clock gives you its verdict.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
For normal commentators without much of racing/coaching background, it's impossible. For those guys who were top racers/coaches themself, it's not all that hard, and when you listen to them, you will find out they are most of time pretty much right. But yes, it's still impossible to tell if someone is 0.02sec faster or slower.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Oh I like this one I am going to go with camera angles and what the commentators are seeing make it difficult to provide accurate feedback.
It is very hard to judge how cleanly someone is gliding when you can not account for the ski prep etc.
To prove the point here was research done recently where a two groups of top FIS coaches from Austria, Canada and Switzerland where asked to analyse racers on the hill using only what their eye and instinct over 3 training runs.
Then the same runs with lots of fancy sensor and digital feedback were analysed by a different group of coaches of the same standard.
The feedback was almost 98% the same between the two groups so given the correct angles and viewing positions top class coaches see an awful lot first time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
I watched the recent North American WC races on French Eurosport and the Garmisch World Championships last winter on France Television (FR2, FR3). I felt the commentary was much more accurate than it is on British Eurosport.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Difficult to say!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
One can end up with the "and errs" as one of the cover for Clarky was disposed to.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Which reminds me, does snow coming out of the skis mean they are not carving? Sometimes they seem to have a mini rooster tail, others just a sideways spray from under the foot.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
i'd love to see some real time telemetry mixed in with the footage a'la formula1.
so apart from speed and gps location what else could they do?
edge angle?
boot/ski pressure?
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
ansta1, Sphincter Clenching.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
rob@rar, lol
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ansta1, so they all need a backpack with a laptop and an aerial on the helmet? Yeah, that'll work.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
no, just something the size and weight of a mobile phone really.. Seperate a lot of the components and they could be embedded in the ski, binding, boot.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
I have met John Clark a number of times and it would seem he would struggle to commentate on someone peeling an orange, the guy makes no sense at the best of times and lord knows who put a mic in his hand and asked him to talk for a living.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
davidhammy, How do you mean? He'd struggle to commentate based on a meeting with him ? Don't quite get you.
I've never met him but I've heard him a lot and do quite like listening to him on Eurosport.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
rob@rar, i'm interested to see how you plan on measuring sphincter clenching...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| davidhammy wrote: |
| I have met John Clark a number of times and it would seem he would struggle to commentate on someone peeling an orange, |
That made me laugh!  But I do agree. I'm sure he's a lovely chap but he does talk a load of drivel.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
maggi, I think you'll find most of the drivel pours out of Nic Fellowes mouth and Clarkey has to cover up for him. I quite like the Chemmy & Matt Chilton duo though. I think she brings a freshness and different aspect based on real experience. But to be honest, none of the British commentators are much cop compared to the expert analysis I get from the German and Austrian commentators.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Samerberg Sue wrote: |
| maggi, I think you'll find most of the drivel pours out of Nic Fellowes mouth and Clarkey has to cover up for him. |
Sorry, but I think they cover up for each other. And neither admit when they're wrong. If someone says, "Clearly, he was faster than anyone else" when he wasn't  (the time came up to show he was slower), a little bit of humour, (ie "Clearly, I am not right every time .. ha, ha.) or some other such phrase would make me respect him more. The other one should then take the mick a little. No point in having 2 commentators unless they bounce a little banter off each other. Have you ever watched ice skating on Eurosport? Can't remember who it is (Robin Cousins, I think, with someone who's name escapes me). Now they're really funny together and hardly ever agree!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| ansta1 wrote: |
i'd love to see some real time telemetry mixed in with the footage a'la formula1.
so apart from speed and gps location what else could they do?
edge angle?
boot/ski pressure? |
The motion base camera footage from a few seasons ago was very interesting, it allowed the viewer to see 2 runs directly overlaid on top of each other so you could really see where they were making/losing time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
