 Poster: A snowHead
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Anyone here ever taken a 'fleche' or 'chamois' speed test in France? This is how they work...
Open to all (you don't have to be on an ESF course), often on a Friday, the forerunners have a 'handicap', based on times of French team members (benchmark 'O'). Then in the speed test you take part in (either GS or slalom) a sliding scale of times is established based on the two openers' time/handicap ratios....
eg: best opener manages 45" in a GS (over 25 to 35 gates, vertical drop of 200-250 metres). (All times off the top of my head...)
Gold fleche : sub-48"
White gold (vermeil) : 48"01 - 50"45
Silver : 50"46 - 52"01
Bronze : 52"02 - 58"85
Flechette : 58"86 - 60"05
Same system applies for a slalom (Chamois award, 30 - 40 gates, 120 - 200 m drop)
It's really just an indication of standard rather than anything more substantial. (After all, if the two openers take their time, or are having a bad day....) Doesn't cost much to enter though, and it's fun seeing how good you are trying to combine technique and speed. You can book one or two runs at the ESF office up to the morning of the test. So, if anyone's ever had a go, care to admit to how you got on?!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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My son then 13 had go last year in La Rosiere, he managed to achieve bronze for his fleche. Not bad for a once a year skier
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'll admit to a couple of attempts in my early years. I crashed badly in both. Later I managed the vermeil, just - not pretty to watch though, and the forerunner - a mate - later told me that he'd taken it pretty easy.  So since I've decided to leave it to the young, enthusiastic, and far more talented....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Im for Les Arcs at Easter, does anybody know if I can have a go there? I did a bit of slalom racing in school so it would be interesting to see what I can remember!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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In the US, there is a similar system called NASTAR. Shorter, though, I think, and only "recreational GS". Many resorts also have a "coin op" race course, too.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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ssh, The only 'pay as you go' course I've come across in France is at Tignes (GS & slalom). Bit strange though - they had some pretty impressive names as having set the standards... Bode, Fred Covilli.... but they were timed at the start of the season, and I presume they do reset the course now and again?! What's more, with the number of people having a go all day long, the course was in a sorry state by the end of the day! Still, good training for when you get a low bib number.
The ESF system is more formal - points are recorded, if you are already a gold flèche for example you have a high start number. During the season the points are also used for qualifying purposes for certain ESF-run races, including the national 'Coq d'Or'.
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mjg, No problem, just go to the ESF office in the resort. They'll give you details of when the next chamois/flèche is, you can usually pay for 1 or 2 runs. You then make your own way on the morning of the run to the bottom of the course where the bibs are allocated before the race. Get there early enough for a course inspection, but they won't let you do a practice run. If you haven't raced for a while though, might be hard to get in the perfect run first time out!
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There's a free dual slalom at whistler, I creamed the pants off my snowboarding mate despite giving him a head start to the first gate
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I did a NASTAR about ?14 years ago. My time was about 15% over my instructor's - whose age was about 100% over mine!
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I've skied with gold ESF racers and gold NASTAR racers - not on the same planet I'm afraid. Having said that it does vary a lot from resort to resort, as some take it more seriously and the openers try harder. Some also have easier courses/slopes. At any rate, if someone gets a gold in the ESF system they can ski a bit, wherever they got it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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When I skied Flachau, Austria back in 2001 there was a course where you paid a euro or two to run a set of gates. The better skiers were getting times of 55' and under - anyone know if these Austrian courses are comparable to the French ones?
Went for it and ended up on me head, a slow ski limp past the last gate before it got dark. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Mark Hunter has done the Fleche and got a Bronze, first time out, I know there's another snowhead who also did the Fleche. The day that Mark did it the course time was set by Joel Chenal who was rtaed 5th in the world in GS and he wasn't hanging about.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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First time I tried it I got silver, but I'd never skied gates before. Second time I practiced the day before and got my skis waxed and sharpened, and scraped vermeil. Must have beenabout 10 years ago.
Here is the system exactly:
Principles of the Chamois and Fleche tests
One or several instructors who have been accredited as openers by the “Syndicat National des Moniteurs du Ski Français” open each test.
Each opener has a handicap calculated in comparison to that of the members of the French Team who are used as a benchmark with a handicap of “0”. The handicap obtained by each competitor is calculated by dividing his course time by the opening time used for the test.
It is exactly the same method, expressed as a percentage, between the competitor’s time and the opening time. The handicap is given in SKIOPEN points.
Example of the Calculation:
During a “Flèche” test, a skier “Peter” manages a time of 57”40
and the opener “John”, who has a handicap of 8 (meaning he has achieved a time 8% slower than French World cup skiers) manages a time of 45”.
Base Time (representing the handicap 0)
45'' / 1.08 = 41''66
Calculation of the Fleche competitor’s handicap:
(57''40 x 100 / 41''66) - 100 = 37,78 points
ie he gets Flèche d'argent (silver) [see standards below]
_____________________________
People generally say that it is easier for someone whohas not done race training to do the Fleche (giant slalom) than the slalom version.
FLECHE "TIMED GIANT SLALOM"
25 to 35 gates with a vertical drop of 200-250m
All of the contestants ski down the same course and depending on the number of SKIOPEN points obtained, they are awarded:
00,00 and 17 points FLECHE D'OR
17,01 and 30 points FLECHE DE VERMEIL
30,01 and 45 points FLECHE D'ARGENT
45,01 and 60 points FLECHE DE BRONZE
60,01 and 65 points FLECHETTE
CHAMOIS "TIMED SPECIAL SLALOM"
30 to 40 gates and a vertical drop of 120-200m
All of the contestants ski down the same course and depending on the number of SKIOPEN points obtained, they are awarded:
00,00 and 17 points CHAMOIS D'OR
17,01 and 35 points CHAMOIS DE VERMEIL
35,01 and 55 points CHAMOIS D'ARGENT
55,01 and 75 points CHAMOIS DE BRONZE
75,01 and 80 points CABRI
In other words if you skied 17% slower than the hypothetical World Cup skier you get 17 points (and get the gold, but only just).
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 21-07-05 14:25; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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xxx
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 21-07-05 14:21; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The effort put in by the forerunner is a key factor, although most go for it for fear of being beaten by someone takiing the test. It sounds tough, and it is, although the relatively short course means considerably more people are in with a chance of getting their little badge than would achieve it on a full FIS length GS. Over 50-60 gates, only the very best won't make at least one major mistake to put themselves out of contention. Not just skill either, fitness and concentration play a big part in getting to the bottom unscathed.
They ran the British Children's Championship SuperG over virtually the same length course as the Juniors last April in Meribel. Even the top youngsters, on the snow most of the year, were shattered by the time they got to the bottom.
Back to the flèche, the gates aren't eactly set in the most testing configuration either, in most cases.
All that said, I've seen French race club ten year olds scraping their golds despite only weighing 25 kgs, so it can be done!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Of course when I did it was just before carving skis started. I wonder if they level the standards any.
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FAQ
On the other hand the Fleche here is short and easy with about 30 gates and quite slow.
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... mind you, you were on a board at the time 
