 Poster: A snowHead
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I am only a wee young one at the tender age of 26. I have been on 4 ski trips in my young life. Once with school and 3 with friends. I have found that whilst talking to freinds in the pub after the event, that they tend to see ski-ing still as a pasttime for the rich/famous/adveturous. Now I don't see myself in anyway upperclass. I find that most people my age generally don't activley seek to group themselves into a social class divide. They do however hang onto those ideals when it comes to something historically class dominated.
Do/have those of you who are older (some may like "more experienced") think that ski-ing has rid itself of this stigma and been opened to the "massess" or due to cost is it still dominated by people who the majority see as "rich"?
(Sorry for the use of so many "" things"" but I am generalising alot and didn't want to offend!!)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Um as a classless kiwi, I don't know that skiing has a class stigma. But then, I'm not really into the class thing, either. A hangup for those who want to have it, IMHO.
But then, I also support the All Blacks. So what do I know? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I suspect that skiing retains something of its class roots, but that it's gradually throwing them off. No comment on whether or not that's a good thing!
Interesting comment, that you and your mates don't actively seek to group yourselves into a social class. I think that the nature of social class is that activity is not required; you are classified (inevitably by others) as being in this or that class, and there's not much that you can do about it, as I see it. I bet that you and your mates fit reasonably well into some 'socio economic group' or whatever they're called now, and that to an extent your life is affected by that.
I think that UK (at least England, Wales and Scotland, I don't know much about NI, but I suspect that the same is true) is still a very class conscious society, and that social mobility, although no doubt easier than it was, is still difficult. What has changed is the effect of one's class on one's lifestyle. No one who wants to ski and can afford it would hesitate, so far as I can imagine; they would not be deterred by the perception that skiing is a predominantly middle class activity (no longer just an upper middle class one as it was, say, 40 years ago).
Nowadays, if one has the opportunity to do something, class issues are unlikely to put one off (unless one is very chippy, very snobbish or very lacking in confidence). However, class issues may still determine whether or not you have the chance, or see yourself as having the chance.
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brian
brian
Guest
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| richmond wrote: |
| No one who wants to ski and can afford it would hesitate, so far as I can imagine; they would not be deterred by the perception that skiing is a predominantly middle class activity. |
I have direct experience to the contrary. Friends who walk/bike but dismiss skiing as a middle class tosser thing. Basically, it's inverted snobbery. Although I s'pose you could say they just didn't want to.
Ironically, skiing in Scotland is, on the whole, much less a middle class thing than it is among UK skiers in the alps.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Wasn't snowboarding supposed to change all this? I'm not sure if it has completely, but the image of snowboarding versus skiing was very much working class yoof vs upper class tosser in the early days. Thankfully the fanatics on either side have realised it's all basically the same sport, with (presumably) the benefit to the overall sport being that it's less upper class than it was.
The other thing that may change the image (slowly) is the various Snowdomes - certainly at Castleford I see young kids all the time with shell suits and acne who would never have gone near a ski slope 10 years ago! Of course the snowdomes are expensive so these kids can't be in desperate poverty, but they're definitely not upper middle class.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
Interesting comment, that you and your mates don't actively seek to group yourselves into a social class. I think that the nature of social class is that activity is not required; you are classified (inevitably by others) as being in this or that class
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richmond, I suppose my own preconception of class is one based on personal and percieved views of others upon themselves. I see class awareness and pride when I see documentries on coal workers in the 60's, and I have personal experience of what we may call the upper class on hunts on boxing day.
I think you are right in that class is not really self imposed but placed upon oneself by others. With that in mind will ski-ing ever rid itself of this label?
Another point to discuss.... Is the continued success of the darkside leading to a slip in the middleclass strangle hold on snow sport?
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Ski Club of Great Britain's view on this one would be interesting. (I'am not a member at the mo.)
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I thought everyone was middle class these days? 
My view on this is that there is nothing about a skiing holiday that is necessarily more middle class than any other activity holiday. You can almost spend as much or as little as you like on it. There are one or two places which seem to attract more than the average number of braying sloanes but you can leave them to it and go somewhere else. I think there is sometimes a perception (mostly among hill walkers, mountaineers, climbers etc) that it's a bit poncey. Most probably from seeing too many pictures of people in fur-trimmed all-in-ones and people doing spinny tricks in the park. We all know that it can be every bit as morally and physically demanding as mountaineering and the like. In fact the line between mountaineering and skiing can get quite blurred.
Still, if people want to have prejudices against skiing, why should we care? All the more space on the slopes for us.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Still, if people want to have prejudices against skiing, why should we care? All the more space on the slopes for us.
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Good point very well made!
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[quote="ginger winger"]
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| Another point to discuss.... Is the continued success of the darkside leading to a slip in the middleclass strangle hold on snow sport? |
I doubt that; it seems to have its mass roots in traditional bourgeois teenage rebellion. I see no difference in background between boarders and skiiers. The main difference seems to be age.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| brian wrote: |
| richmond wrote: |
| No one who wants to ski and can afford it would hesitate, so far as I can imagine; they would not be deterred by the perception that skiing is a predominantly middle class activity. |
I have direct experience to the contrary. Friends who walk/bike but dismiss skiing as a middle class tosser thing. Basically, it's inverted snobbery. Although I s'pose you could say they just didn't want to.
Ironically, skiing in Scotland is, on the whole, much less a middle class thing than it is among UK skiers in the alps. |
Maybe they're the very chippy exceptions I mentioned. I think that there is a view of skiing as rather effete, which walkers climbers and riders (of whatever class) don't like.
Scotland seems to deal better with these things; golf, for example has almost no middle class associations in Scotland, although rugby does. Maybe it's because if you limit activities to the middle classes in Scotland, historically you'd have about 14 people involved.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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richmond, It is intersting that you also meantion Golf and Rugby. They too are sports that I am a keen participant in. Mix them in with the love of the slopes, and as far as my friends are concerned I am concreted deep into the middle class classification.
I say "friends", they are just regulars who I know in my local. 
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Just in passing, the thread header should perhaps read British skiing - probably what GW meant - because skiing is something you just do in the Alpine countries, nothing to do with money/class.
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You know it makes sense.
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To be honest, I think that those of us in the UK who don't think that skiing is class ridden are deluding ourselves a little bit. It's an expensive hobby, and you're very unlikely to find someone unemployed sat next to you on the transfer coach.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Kramer, so when did employment status become synonymous with class? I'm sure plenty of unemployed upper class t@:^%s go skiing
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Alan Craggs, I'm not sure whether you're joking or not with that last comment.
Long term unemployment and dependence on benefits tends to go with lower class IMHO.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
| Is ski-ing still a class ridden sport? |
One wouldn't care to comment. Now clear off you ghastly oik and let one ane one's sons enjoy their privy piste.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Is that where one finds yellow snow?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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of course it's a class-ridden sport... there's classes for novices, beginners, off-piste, advanced, expert and all manner of intermediates...
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austin7, lol!
People think skiing is a class-ridden sport. People at school call me a rich b!tch for going skiing, even tho my family can barely afford it. But then the people at my school are obnoxious, ignorant, arrogant townies. Oh how I hate them.
Julia
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I don't think that we have a true employed lower class these days, I think that the lower class is almost exclusively made up of the unemployed.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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As we only have 0.78% unemployed in this area, therefore we have virtually no lower class on that basis 
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For me there are only two types of people, good types and pond life. I have known so called 'low class'people who are fantastic and I have known upper class people who have been complete dick$. I don't tend to form an opinion one way or other until I know people.
If skiing is bracketed as an elitist sport and keeps the pond life at bay then I can live with that. Hark at me..!!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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If you want to search out toffee-nosed gits in skiing there are plenty around, in the obvious places.
If you want to search out people who do it at near-zero cost, not even using ski lifts unless they want to, go up to the Scottish Highlands where there are spirited individuals who just strap on a pair of planks and go for a hike amongst some of the most beautiful mountainscapes in the world. [That, by the way, is where British skiing really got going, just over a century ago]
Who are the privileged ones?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I have known upper class people who have been complete dick$
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If skiing is bracketed as an elitist sport and keeps the pond life at bay then I can live with that
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JT, I am a little confused here, if it is elitist then how does that protect you from the upper class knobs. Skiing is without doubt a sport of the well off and I must say that the behaviour of some of the minted people I meet skiing annoys me just as much as the behaviour of pond life in Blackpool.
It as all about respect and humility; some of the knobs who ski couldnt hold a polite conversation with a waiter or ski rep if their life depended on it. I have met some great folks on a ski holidays, but also some great asswipes.
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ginger winger, in answer to your question, no I don't think it is in general, however there are places where it is still percived to be e.g Klosters and the like, this is an image further persued by the media with coverage of say the Royal Family on its ski trips as opposed to them showing a family on a last minute cheap holiday
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You know it makes sense.
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Frosty the Snowman,
It doesn't, of course. I think I would prefer an upper class knob to the pond life though...And by some distance on the basis of the
knobs and pond life I have come across...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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ginger winger, What an interesting question, and not one that I had previously considered. There are also a lot of very interesting responses , particularly from those who would advocate the classless society . These views are frequently spoken from a position of great height i.e. inverse snobbery !
The class system whether based upon 'breeding'. wealth or both, still seems alive and strong in the Westren world as far as I can make out ! A quick bit of research on topics and 'politically-inspired' posts will perhaps give the best flavour of the participants hereabouts.
FWIW ( and after a little thought) I would suggest that for most British ski-participants it is. understandably, wealth driven. Skiing becoming a dinner table - differentiator somewhat akin to 'NEVER would go to Mallorca darling, but we really enjoyed Barbados/St Lucia/Mauritius (etc) this year " The only exception I have seen , in my very limited experience, would appear to be some mad young Scots. The only other nation I can write about are the French where everyone seems obliged to have a ski holiday with their kids at least once a year. My own involvement is based upon available finacial resources .... not rich but I get by ( as they say) - it's just the breeding I lack!
These comments do not of course apply to 'sportsmen' at the higher levels ---- however the backing of Daddy's 'bucks' may well have sponsored the initial involvement and path up the ladder to success. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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JT, I would agree with your statement,
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It doesn't, of course. I think I would prefer an upper class knob to the pond life though
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However the well educated should know better .
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hey, guys, get rid of your class hangups. Spend the effort on sorting out your rugby 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Nick Zotov, Its not a class hangup (although antipodeans would generally benefit from a large does of class ) its a behaviour hangup
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Nick Zotov, why? A quick assessment of someone's class avoids you wasting each others' time by trying to strike up a conversation.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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richmond, You do come out with some tosh at times.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Frosty the Snowman, thanks, I do my best.
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| richmond wrote: |
| Nick Zotov, why? A quick assessment of someone's class avoids you wasting each others' time by trying to strike up a conversation. |
Well, it's always a start by looking at what resort you are in. See, skiing isn't class-ridden, but resorts/regions are...
The likes of Zermatt and Aspen are more likely to have more affluent people skiing there than say, Andorra.
And if you can get a week in Andorra for the same price as a week in Ibiza (or wherever the oiks go to now ), then surely that says that skiing is not a classist sport.
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Wear The Fox Hat, true, but affluence is secondary (at best). There are certainly penty of well off proles, and I'm sure lots of poor toffs. Mind you, poor toffs seem to be pretty good at scrounging.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Certainly, British skiing - particularly for southerners - tended to be a pursuit of the ruling classes until tour operators began chartering flights in the 1960s and reducing the critical cost of the travel element (though, as I say above, those in easy reach of the Scottish hills could always slide for next to nothing if they could source some planks).
A few years of ski teaching in Scotland gave me a taste of how accessible the sport can be made for those lucky enough to live nearby - kids in the Spey Valley enjoyed (maybe they still do) low-cost access to Cairngorm etc.
My BASI trainer was Ali Ross, a remarkable guy who has roots as the son of a crofting family north of Inverness. He went on to become a truck driver and (self-taught? not sure) engineer, then a world-class ski instructor in Wengen, Switzerland.
So, there was a guy who kicked off by skiing on homemade skis, and ended up teaching the aristocracy (and me).
Some of the people who built the original Scottish lifts (the Glencoe chairlift, for instance) were tough Clydeside shipbuilders who had the Highlands as a weekend playground.
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FAQ
People all over the world love their perceptions, be they true or false. Certainly here you could never believe it to be middle/upper class as only Mark Warner bring those sort of Brits to LDA!!!
