 Poster: A snowHead
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| madskier wrote: |
Hi,
I only joined the forum today, at my friend recommendation, after disastrous skiing holiday with SkiBeat in Les Arc (9-16/April/2011).
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Why oh why oh why oh why, did you have to mention SkiBeat in relation to your disastrous holiday ? Sounds to me that you are just on here for a moanfest
Now whenever anyone types "disastrous holiday" into a web search, there is a good chance that "Ski Beat" will pop up.
Now, i wonder if you fancy being sued by SkiBeat for causing their good name to be devalued in such a way by your own negligent slandering ?
You seriously ARE Pandora by another name, and i claim my £5
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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madskier, So given that you especially blame the SCGB, what evidence have you that the SCGB reports you read prior to booking were not accurate at the time of publication?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think this is a complete wind-up. Someone is enjoying a joke at your expense !!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Fogliettaz wrote: |
I had a great time last week last day of opening in Ste Foy, then on for a day in Tignes both on the snowboard then what I consider the best day of the season in Le Fornet and Solaise on skis. The rest of the week was spent walking and mountain biking.
If you are based in Les Arcs it is only a short drive up to Espace Killy! where the conditions whilst not perfect were certainly skiable! |
Yes, with hindsight it would have been great and if with a group of few guys willing to hire a car and travel and without paying for the ski pass in Les Arc even quite cheap option.
How long would it have taken every day 90 minutes each way? I remember quite a long drive up the mountain to Tignes last year during ash cloud, albeit with snow on the roads and at night.
Again, SCGB website had similar conditions for Les Arc and WDI and if I remember WDI was 55 low/110 high against LArc 45/145 when I booked, so on paper LArc looked better 
Plus my girlfriend wanted to ski in new resort and she would not have agreed to spent hrs in the car every day going to/from VDI
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hells Bells, yes absolutely!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I got the sh!ts in Delhi, it was  hot and the beggars spoiled my trip, can I sue someone?
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| PJSki wrote: |
| madskier, So given that you especially blame the SCGB, what evidence have you that the SCGB reports you read prior to booking were not accurate at the time of publication? |
Question is not whether reports were accurate in a sense that there was 45 cms of snow in the resort somewhere and 145 at the top, but whether SCGB view on skiing in Les Arc and La Plagne was an accurate reflection of quality of skiing you would get.
I claim it was not. We were told by many people, resort staff, nurse trating my girlfriend injury that conditions were bad 2-3 weeks previously.
If you claim that within 6 days resort went from effected by weather, but 60-70% runs skiable to 3-6 good runs and another six so, so, then I would need some evidence to believe that.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ElleJ, 
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| madskier wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| madskier, So given that you especially blame the SCGB, what evidence have you that the SCGB reports you read prior to booking were not accurate at the time of publication? |
Question is not whether reports were accurate in a sense that there was 45 cms of snow in the resort somewhere and 145 at the top, but whether SCGB view on skiing in Les Arc and La Plagne was an accurate reflection of quality of skiing you would get. |
Go and read the question again.
| Quote: |
| I claim it was not. We were told by many people, resort staff, nurse trating my girlfriend injury that conditions were bad 2-3 weeks previously. |
It was nowhere near as bad.
| Quote: |
| If you claim that within 6 days resort went from effected by weather, but 60-70% runs skiable to 3-6 good runs and another six so, so, then I would need some evidence to believe that. |
Here is some evidence in the form of a post made by davidof.
| davidof wrote: |
The start of April was pretty exceptional, we lost 50cm of snow cover in a week, so it could easily go from ok to rocky horror in 6 days. Even the lift companies were caught out by the situation. Most probably expected to get through to the middle of April despite the lack of snow. |
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| sev112 wrote: |
| madskier wrote: |
Hi,
I only joined the forum today, at my friend recommendation, after disastrous skiing holiday with SkiBeat in Les Arc (9-16/April/2011).
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Why oh why oh why oh why, did you have to mention SkiBeat in relation to your disastrous holiday ? Sounds to me that you are just on here for a moanfest
Now whenever anyone types "disastrous holiday" into a web search, there is a good chance that "Ski Beat" will pop up.
Now, i wonder if you fancy being sued by SkiBeat for causing their good name to be devalued in such a way by your own negligent slandering ?
You seriously ARE Pandora by another name, and i claim my £5 |
Negligent slandering? If you sell someone holiday and non refundable ski pass knowing that conditions are such that they will not enjoy their skiing, then you are deceiving people into parting with the money under false pretences.
If you think, that is acceptable, that is you point of view, but I provided honest description of what happened. Any court case would involve witnesses who were sold the same week holidays and other people in resort describing under oath what happened.
I know on good authority that Les Arc had the one of the highest number of ski accidents ever recorded in a season. When my girlfriend was examined by the doctor another 6-7 people were brought in for tratment. Rescue helicopters were taking off regularly and I have never seen so many people being carted down on sladges in ski resourt in my life.
If this is picture of a resort which was skiable in a normal sense of the world, then be my guest.
btw. I have no idea what Pandora you are referring too.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| madskier wrote: |
| Fogliettaz wrote: |
I had a great time last week last day of opening in Ste Foy, then on for a day in Tignes both on the snowboard then what I consider the best day of the season in Le Fornet and Solaise on skis. The rest of the week was spent walking and mountain biking.
If you are based in Les Arcs it is only a short drive up to Espace Killy! where the conditions whilst not perfect were certainly skiable! |
Yes, with hindsight it would have been great and if with a group of few guys willing to hire a car and travel and without paying for the ski pass in Les Arc even quite cheap option.
How long would it have taken every day 90 minutes each way? I remember quite a long drive up the mountain to Tignes last year during ash cloud, albeit with snow on the roads and at night.
Again, SCGB website had similar conditions for Les Arc and WDI and if I remember WDI was 55 low/110 high against LArc 45/145 when I booked, so on paper LArc looked better
Plus my girlfriend wanted to ski in new resort and she would not have agreed to spent hrs in the car every day going to/from VDI |
Not having the benefit of 49 yrs skiing under my belt, I have never heard of VDI & LArc
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Just out of interest i'm wondering if any of you "welcoming" types are going on the ESOB, i really hope that it's as prefect as has been reported 5000 times a day for the last 18 months.
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You know it makes sense.
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| PJSki wrote: |
| madskier wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| madskier, So given that you especially blame the SCGB, what evidence have you that the SCGB reports you read prior to booking were not accurate at the time of publication? |
Question is not whether reports were accurate in a sense that there was 45 cms of snow in the resort somewhere and 145 at the top, but whether SCGB view on skiing in Les Arc and La Plagne was an accurate reflection of quality of skiing you would get. |
Go and read the question again.
| Quote: |
| I claim it was not. We were told by many people, resort staff, nurse trating my girlfriend injury that conditions were bad 2-3 weeks previously. |
It was nowhere near as bad.
| Quote: |
| If you claim that within 6 days resort went from effected by weather, but 60-70% runs skiable to 3-6 good runs and another six so, so, then I would need some evidence to believe that. |
Here is some evidence in the form of a post made by davidof.
| davidof wrote: |
The start of April was pretty exceptional, we lost 50cm of snow cover in a week, so it could easily go from ok to rocky horror in 6 days. Even the lift companies were caught out by the situation. Most probably expected to get through to the middle of April despite the lack of snow. |
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Regrettebly I did not keep screen shots of snow reports on the SCGB website but I think the decline quoted from the week I booked to the week I arrived was about 15 cms from 55 to 40 cms.
So I refuse to believe that resort was any good at the time of booking although probably better.
Problem with your argument is that what you mean by accurate? Just because SCGB accurately publishes reports from unreliable source is not the same as providing honest description of the resort conditions.
Many people said in reply to my postings that I was stupid to rely on SCGB information. I can either be stupid for believing what I read on SCGB website or sensible because SCGB information is accurate.
It can not be both...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, Ha ha ha..............................yes and I've ordered my lift pass for the full week!!! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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madskier, I am afraid that you're probably at the mercy of the Ts and Cs that you will have signed up for.
Whether or not the TO involced and perhaps the SCGB were at all misleading is somewhat beside the point. I have had many ski days that were excellent only to be told in the bar that conditions were terrible.
There's ahuge degree of subjectivity.
Sorry you didn't have a great time, but that's weather for you.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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And that's perhaps how to do it folks. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Right ........... using my extensive experience of wading through essays masquerading as complaint letters, searching for the nugget of truth which represents the real complaint, I suggest that:
1. madskier, booked the trip for self and gf without doing the basic research
2. Gf had a cr@p week and nipped his heid about it
3. He knows he c0cked up and feels guilty about it
4. He is now trying to blame all sorts of other people instead
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| madskier wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| madskier wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| madskier, So given that you especially blame the SCGB, what evidence have you that the SCGB reports you read prior to booking were not accurate at the time of publication? |
Question is not whether reports were accurate in a sense that there was 45 cms of snow in the resort somewhere and 145 at the top, but whether SCGB view on skiing in Les Arc and La Plagne was an accurate reflection of quality of skiing you would get. |
Go and read the question again.
| Quote: |
| I claim it was not. We were told by many people, resort staff, nurse trating my girlfriend injury that conditions were bad 2-3 weeks previously. |
It was nowhere near as bad.
| Quote: |
| If you claim that within 6 days resort went from effected by weather, but 60-70% runs skiable to 3-6 good runs and another six so, so, then I would need some evidence to believe that. |
Here is some evidence in the form of a post made by davidof.
| davidof wrote: |
The start of April was pretty exceptional, we lost 50cm of snow cover in a week, so it could easily go from ok to rocky horror in 6 days. Even the lift companies were caught out by the situation. Most probably expected to get through to the middle of April despite the lack of snow. |
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Regrettebly I did not keep screen shots of snow reports on the SCGB website but I think the decline quoted from the week I booked to the week I arrived was about 15 cms from 55 to 40 cms.
So I refuse to believe that resort was any good at the time of booking although probably better.
Problem with your argument is that what you mean by accurate? Just because SCGB accurately publishes reports from unreliable source is not the same as providing honest description of the resort conditions.
Many people said in reply to my postings that I was stupid to rely on SCGB information. I can either be stupid for believing what I read on SCGB website or sensible because SCGB information is accurate.
It can not be both... |
The Ski Club provides links to webcams and phone numbers for their reps in resort. It seems to me that you were relying only on snow depth and numbers of lifts open, both of which change daily. This a spectacularly stupid way of going about things.
Also, it seems to me that you are now attempting to defend your very weak position by ignoring any evidence you don't like.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 18-04-11 21:34; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I can't be bothered to plow through all this (again) so apologies if someone has said it. But, I was there last week as well, and like any sensible person had checked the webcams the week before. It was flippin obvious from these it was going to be cr@p.
If I hadn't booked there is no way I would have done.
I went in any case as I needed a week of sun and gin
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Boris, hoooray!!!!!
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| Lizzard wrote: |
Right ........... using my extensive experience of wading through essays masquerading as complaint letters, searching for the nugget of truth which represents the real complaint, I suggest that:
1. madskier, booked the trip for self and gf without doing the basic research
2. Gf had a cr@p week and nipped his heid about it
3. He knows he c0cked up and feels guilty about it
4. He is now trying to blame all sorts of other people instead |
Very insightful and almost certainly correct.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Sorry to hear about your bad experience but as with everyone else I'm surprised such an experienced skier as yourself never considered two very easy checks to ascertain conditions were good enough to justify a weeks pass rather than each day at a time - 1) check all webcams, not just the top but the lower ones anywhere near the base of a lift. 2) Ask someone coming off the pistes at the day how conditions were and what runs (at the end of that day) were open.
That would have given you a much better opinion on whether to buy a whole weeks pass this late in a season, albeit at a good height.
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oldsnowy, He's experienced, 40 odd years, damn all those years checking web cams. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| PJSki wrote: |
| madskier wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| madskier, So given that you especially blame the SCGB, what evidence have you that the SCGB reports you read prior to booking were not accurate at the time of publication? |
Question is not whether reports were accurate in a sense that there was 45 cms of snow in the resort somewhere and 145 at the top, but whether SCGB view on skiing in Les Arc and La Plagne was an accurate reflection of quality of skiing you would get. |
Go and read the question again.
| Quote: |
| I claim it was not. We were told by many people, resort staff, nurse trating my girlfriend injury that conditions were bad 2-3 weeks previously. |
It was nowhere near as bad.
| Quote: |
| If you claim that within 6 days resort went from effected by weather, but 60-70% runs skiable to 3-6 good runs and another six so, so, then I would need some evidence to believe that. |
Here is some evidence in the form of a post made by davidof.
| davidof wrote: |
The start of April was pretty exceptional, we lost 50cm of snow cover in a week, so it could easily go from ok to rocky horror in 6 days. Even the lift companies were caught out by the situation. Most probably expected to get through to the middle of April despite the lack of snow. |
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If start of April was so bad, then why sell holidays on assumption that it will somehow stop deteriorating? I do not know what the long term weather forecast was but surely TOs have access to these?
Even if we agreed that my week of skiing was fantastic, would you say that selling holidays to Les Arc for current week at late notice (i.e. during my week skiing was fair?)
I was told that SkiBeat closed La Tania and Maribel and offered people who booked holidays there places in chalets in Plan Paisey. Do you think that in view of the conditions in Les Arc it was sensible and honest decision?
When in your view resort is not skiable? Only when lifts are closed even if there is no snow?
It would be interested to know, how many people defending SCGB an SkiBear are industry insiders or connected to it and having vested interest in pretending that all is great....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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For the record No lift pass discount was offered for La Plagne last week afaIk, but this week 6 day passes are offered for the price of 5. This would be reviewed again today (Monday)
Do the maths but one free day does not compensate for 48% of pistes being closed in my book.
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Boredsurfing, da ballix
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You know it makes sense.
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I think ths chap has basically had a shite one, and has been pointed here to see if there are any TO on he forum that might be able to understand the situation better, decrease the chances of him making the same mistake again and see if his feelings are justified. Infact there are a load of grumpy ballix here calling him knobend and banging his poor head against a nailed door. Give the guy a break.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| madskier wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| madskier wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| madskier, So given that you especially blame the SCGB, what evidence have you that the SCGB reports you read prior to booking were not accurate at the time of publication? |
Question is not whether reports were accurate in a sense that there was 45 cms of snow in the resort somewhere and 145 at the top, but whether SCGB view on skiing in Les Arc and La Plagne was an accurate reflection of quality of skiing you would get. |
Go and read the question again.
| Quote: |
| I claim it was not. We were told by many people, resort staff, nurse trating my girlfriend injury that conditions were bad 2-3 weeks previously. |
It was nowhere near as bad.
| Quote: |
| If you claim that within 6 days resort went from effected by weather, but 60-70% runs skiable to 3-6 good runs and another six so, so, then I would need some evidence to believe that. |
Here is some evidence in the form of a post made by davidof.
| davidof wrote: |
The start of April was pretty exceptional, we lost 50cm of snow cover in a week, so it could easily go from ok to rocky horror in 6 days. Even the lift companies were caught out by the situation. Most probably expected to get through to the middle of April despite the lack of snow. |
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If start of April was so bad, then why sell holidays on assumption that it will somehow stop deteriorating? I do not know what the long term weather forecast was but surely TOs have access to these?
Even if we agreed that my week of skiing was fantastic, would you say that selling holidays to Les Arc for current week at late notice (i.e. during my week skiing was fair?)
I was told that SkiBeat closed La Tania and Maribel and offered people who booked holidays there places in chalets in Plan Paisey. Do you think that in view of the conditions in Les Arc it was sensible and honest decision?
When in your view resort is not skiable? Only when lifts are closed even if there is no snow?
It would be interested to know, how many people defending SCGB an SkiBear are industry insiders or connected to it and having vested interest in pretending that all is great.... |
The only vested interests I have are truth and logic. Anyway, your augment is full of holes.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| I think ths chap has basically had a shite one, and has been pointed here to see if there are any TO on he forum that might be able to understand the situation better, decrease the chances of him making the same mistake again and see if his feelings are justified. Infact there are a load of grumpy ballix here calling him knobend and banging his poor head against a nailed door. Give the guy a break. |
Feck off. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I went on holiday with SKI BEAT, snow conditions were amazing, SKI BEAT were ballix, even the chalet maid, turned out to be an old school friend was shite, she hated the company, took it out on us, refused to let us take glasses of water into our room, she quit the week after.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Webcams would have told you all you needed to know. Just shows you can still learn something, even with 49 years' experience!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| madskier wrote: |
| My question is however whether both holiday companies and resort operators owe customers some duty of care |
If your saying the resort shouldn't be open then absolutely not. Something that really irks me is folk who don't like the conditions themselves thinking they should be able to deny the option of skiing to others. The ski area operates the lifts if it all possible - it is up to the individual skiers to decide whether to ski or not.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| madskier wrote: |
If you claim that within 6 days resort went from effected by weather, but 60-70% runs skiable to 3-6 good runs and another six so, so, then I would need some evidence to believe that. |
Sure, here you go:
This is the live weather feed from the Meteo France monitoring station at la Bellecote, the big mountain just across the valley from les Arcs. The temperature was above freezing for the first week of April. The site is at 3000 meters. It was 28C + in Bourg St Maurice at 870 meters.
This is unprecidented (even if Lizzard is old enough to remember the Jurassic period) no-one has ever seen temperatures like this in the valley. As you can see the snow depth on the Bellecote dropped from 155 to 115cm (roughly what the SCGB was quoting). That's 40cm of snow loss in one week... at 3000 meters altitude. Imagine what happened at 1600m.
You were lucky there wasn't a foehn wind, that can turn good conditions to bare ground in 24 hours let alone 6 days.
Sorry your holiday got wiped out by freak weather. Why the rep on the bus told you otherwise I don't know, maybe you need to ask SkiBeat?
| Quote: |
| If start of April was so bad, then why sell holidays on assumption that it will somehow stop deteriorating? I do not know what the long term weather forecast was but surely TOs have access to these? |
I don't know the answer to that as I'm not in the ski business, but to make money I guess. The long term forecasts are pretty crap though.
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davidof, thanks for posting that. Very interesting.
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madskier, we were there last week too. Cr@p week for snow but it was quite clear from late March that things weren't going to be improving. Why did we go? Because we booked yonks ago. Wouldn't have considered a last minute holiday.
If you had done some/any homework you would have perhaps declined the first lift pass offered and checked yourself. The resort staff were quite clear that it was better to buy passes daily as the prices were changing. (IMV the passes were not reduced enough though. Several pistes were marked as open but would have been more use to grazing cattle than snowsports)
Someone with 48yrs experience booking a holiday based on snow depths on a website? Come on
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I agree with the OP, why not trust the people in resort working for the company who run a business doing this? He did, and he was let down or poorly advised, kinda like going into a restaurant and asking for help with menu choices and being served something utterly inedible, no?
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, yup he was poorly advised by TO rep but if he had just taken a little time once he had the "Oh I know, let's to Les Arcs" moment and done basic research. If I was going to a restaurant, I would have a look at the board outside before going in 
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FAQ
I can admit, that I might have been one of the people buying the weeks lift pass on the bus, 
I would and do however watch the webcams and read loads about the resorts that I'm about to visit. I had to return after only one days skiing once due to a bereavement and I was given a full refund on my lift pass for the unused days. Live and learn I guess. Happy posting 
