 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| madskier wrote: |
Your comment: "Holiday operators don't want customers like you." is too judgemental. You know too little about me, sorry. |
On the contrary, I suspect that many of us know a great deal about you. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| PJSki wrote: |
madskier,
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| I was never great fun of wet snow, so with my girlfriend not going skiing ever again in April, they lost 2 people already. |
Is she a bit of a retard as well? Tell her conditions can be excellent in April and then dump her. She'll only ever hold you back. |
I think retard is someone, who chooses a partner on the basis of his/her acomplishments in skiing or other sport. Some qualities are more important then whether skiing in April is good or bad idea....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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richjp, ad hominems add nothing to the debate
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Depends on resort. We did straight away in Serfaus, Austria, on production of the medical centre's letter.
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That would be why I said 'unlikely' and not 'impossible' then, wouldn't it? 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
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I have 48 years of skiing experience
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I don't believe you. If that were true, you would know very well that you're unlikely to get a refund on your pass as a result of injury and very likely indeed to get deservedly laughed at if you ask for a refund because conditions were 'not to your liking'. You would also have known to look at the webcams and read independent reports (like this one http://www.lesarcsnet.com/snow_report.php) before making a decision regarding a late season ski trip in a poor snow year. And if you'd done all that, you'd have booked 2Alpes instead. |
Strangely, I do not really care if you believe me or not. I was wrong I should have said 49: I am 52 and I started skiing as a 3 year old. I remember leather laceup boots, wooden skis with screwed on edges, strap bindings and skiing in -25degC without smartwool baselayers and Gortex.
Before you say that my timeline on skiing equipment is all wrong, I better add that I did not learn to ski in the Alps or North America.
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madskier, so who is your snowhead friend who recommended you post here?
Lizzard, indeed 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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madskier,
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I did not learn to ski in the Alps or North America.
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Eastern Europe?
But I am a few years older than you and skied on all that stuff in Austria the first time I went.
I really cannot believe that anyone would have booked a ski holiday for last week only six days in advance -there has been so much info available about lack of snow, the webcams to look at - strips of white with a brown/green background. OK if you have your trip booked and paid for, ferry, air tickets, accommodation etc then still go, but to start from scratch and still book and still go - and then, I am afraid to say, whinge about it. And I do think your gripe really is with SCGB.
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madskier, If you are for real can I ask what you hoped to achieve from coming on here with the question/moan - in any of your 49 years experience have you ever experienced a ski resort willingly handing out refunds or underplaying snow reports? And have you ever known conditions in a warm April not be slightly on the slushy side?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Given the lack of snow and warm temps, I'm amazed at how well the pistes in Les Arcs & La Plagne have survived for most of the season. I dare say it has cost the resorts a fair amount to maintain the pistes in reasonable condition with artificial snow. It would be interesting to see the comparative costs.
madskier, I know this is your first posting (welcome to  BTW) but the poor snow conditions were no secret when you booked 6 days before the start of your holiday, & I think its a bit unreasonable to ask for your money back because the snow conditions weren't to your liking. I also don't think many apartment/chalet owners would take too kindly to your seeing the £100 deposit as licence to pull out of the holiday at the last minute without paying the rent.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| cathy wrote: |
This is a wind-up right?
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| I only joined the forum today, at my friend recommendation |
So they are obviously a member of snowHeads. What is their username?
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| Why returning ski pass should be any different? You would obviously pay daily rate for the days you used facilities on the mauntain, but why should you be charged for something you did not use, especially in view of the conditions? |
If conditions were so bad, then you buy a daily lift pass. And on days you don't go skiing you can go and do other more interesting things....
Other snowheads were out that same week and although conditions weren't ideal there was snow to ski on http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=66382&start=1320
I too cannot believe you didn't look at a webcam before you went or even just typed in "Les Arcs snow report" in google, especially when booking so late.
Are you really Ibex?  |
I will ask for his permission to tell you, although I am not sure he is a member. Can not he just read threads without being a member?
Well, as I said I was never caught out by SCGB information, so why would I search for other info?
I skied all week, so I am not after claiming anything, although voucher towards discounted lift pass in the future would be nice.
Hindsight is wonderfull thing, but I bought my ski pass on the bus after asking SkiBeat rep about conditions. His answers persuaded most people who did not prebook to buy area passes.
I must admit, I did not ask detailed questions about how many runs are really skiable all day etc and even if he described conditions as I described them in my post, I would have had still bought area pass and few others as well.
But that makes 2-3 people in the chalet of 12. Most others would have choosen daily passes, if they had known exact conditions on the slopes.
This was the main issue for many people.
Skibeat could have just said "in the last week conditions deteriorated rapidly, we lost 40-50 cms of snow or whatever, we suggest you check the conditions on the first day and then decide on appropriate pass or none at all"
That would keep customer goodwill to certain extent and if someone decided to buy week pass, how much extra would he had paid? I am assuming here that deal, which was the least resort and TOs could have done, to allow people who want weekly passes to purchase them at no extra cost after first day trial could not have been negotaiated with the lift operator or SkiBeat could have swallowed the difference. Deals like this are usual in business if you think even little about customer service.
Comments from snowheads with USA experience, show that it can be done.
I never said that there was no snow. I am happy to see the list of skiable runs for that week from other snowheads. I am not mega knowledgable about area (just 3 weeks in total) but the only thing I missed on my list was Bellcote glacier skiing and below, which adds 3-6 runs of so, so quality and length.
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You know it makes sense.
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| madskier wrote: |
However, they claim to have 220 or something kms of runs, while it feels less on the slopes then some resorts with 100+ kms???? |
I know what you mean. Maybe too many km on the glacier? Maybe the fact that some runs are on the other side of the village and you have to be motivated to go over there. Some runs are also a bit tucked away. The free respect sessions can be an idea to learn more about the ski area.
I'm sorry you had a poor holiday. Normally April skiers are spoilt. Great weather, good base, fresh snow and uncrowded pistes. I saw that SnowCrazy who has reported a lot from les Arcs was very cross the LP were not half price the week you were there so you are obviously not that out of sync with some other people.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Mon 18-04-11 19:34; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| madskier wrote: |
| ... I bought my ski pass on the bus after asking SkiBeat rep about conditions. |
I'm sorry you had poor snow conditions, but I really do find it difficult to have sympathy with your complaint. It seems to centre on the SCGB providing unreliable info and you deciding to buy a full liftpass on the 'advice' of a TO agent before you'd even got to the resort. Just about understandable if you're new to skiing, but given your experience it makes me wonder what you were thinking. If I'd made similar errors of judgement I have to say I'd be embarrassed to go public with them...
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Poster: A snowHead
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| genepi wrote: |
Given the lack of snow and warm temps, I'm amazed at how well the pistes in Les Arcs & La Plagne have survived for most of the season. I dare say it has cost the resorts a fair amount to maintain the pistes in reasonable condition with artificial snow. It would be interesting to see the comparative costs.
madskier, I know this is your first posting (welcome to BTW) but the poor snow conditions were no secret when you booked 6 days before the start of your holiday, & I think its a bit unreasonable to ask for your money back because the snow conditions weren't to your liking. I also don't think many apartment/chalet owners would take too kindly to your seeing the £100 deposit as licence to pull out of the holiday at the last minute without paying the rent. |
It might be that conditions were no secret to you and others on this forum but how come so many poeple booked late anyway? What is this forum membership in comparison to number of skiers? people relay on the info from the "trusted" source if they have no reason to doubt the information.
Carver skis has been around in numbers at least since 1998-2000 and yet 99% of people on the slopes can not carve. All the information is out there re carving but it aint happening.
Enthusiasts often forget that others do not spend hrs thinking and posting about skiing, just go on one or two ski trips a year and forget about it till next winter.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Excellent first post, I must say.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| madskier wrote: |
| genepi wrote: |
Given the lack of snow and warm temps, I'm amazed at how well the pistes in Les Arcs & La Plagne have survived for most of the season. I dare say it has cost the resorts a fair amount to maintain the pistes in reasonable condition with artificial snow. It would be interesting to see the comparative costs.
madskier, I know this is your first posting (welcome to BTW) but the poor snow conditions were no secret when you booked 6 days before the start of your holiday, & I think its a bit unreasonable to ask for your money back because the snow conditions weren't to your liking. I also don't think many apartment/chalet owners would take too kindly to your seeing the £100 deposit as licence to pull out of the holiday at the last minute without paying the rent. |
It might be that conditions were no secret to you and others on this forum but how come so many poeple booked late anyway? What is this forum membership in comparison to number of skiers? people relay on the info from the "trusted" source if they have no reason to doubt the information.
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I know a fair few skiers - not just on this forum, & I think its reasonable to say they all look at conditions & webcams before they book/go. Its a lot of money to spend if you don't research it. I've just booked a summer holiday & have spent a fair bit of time finding out as much about the place as I can before we go. The information is out there.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
I should have said 49: I am 52 and I started skiing as a 3 year old
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Why are you being such a twit then? I suggest that what you have there is one year's experience repeated 49 times.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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To be fair to Madskier (and the SCGB) the conditions really did deteriorate very quickly in the first week of April and even though it was a bad snow year one might have expected better at a high resort although I thought conditions at the first EOSB were a bit poor and Graham was right to transfer to Val Thorens.
I think the Skibeat coach rep should have given better information but was obviously motiviated by LP sales. Speaking of which, Snowcrazy says the resort was giving 25% (which he thought was poor) yet Skibeat were only giving 10%, did I understand that right?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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madskier, what evidence have you that the reports you read prior to booking were not accurate at the time of publication?
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| madskier wrote: |
| ... I bought my ski pass on the bus after asking SkiBeat rep about conditions. |
I'm sorry you had poor snow conditions, but I really do find it difficult to have sympathy with your complaint. It seems to centre on the SCGB providing unreliable info and you deciding to buy a full liftpass on the 'advice' of a TO agent before you'd even got to the resort. Just about understandable if you're new to skiing, but given your experience it makes me wonder what you were thinking. If I'd made similar errors of judgement I have to say I'd be embarrassed to go public with them... |
Please read what I wrote in full before making comments about ambarassment etc. As I said, I would have bought the area pass anyway, unless told there was no skiing at all, so why are you saying I made an error of judgment?
I understand that TO agent gets some commision for selling ski passes, but long term it will backfire on ski holiday companies.
I am a member of other forums and what surprises me here is the number of people whose only objective is to make others feel small and question their inteligence instead of providing patient advice even if they think something is obvious (which many people did, thank you very much).
I went to Italy in December (very good snow for the time of year) and then I forgot about skiing till April time (my main sport is tennis now).
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This is the best thread in ages 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| madskier wrote: |
| Please read what I wrote in full before making comments about ambarassment etc. As I said, I would have bought the area pass anyway, unless told there was no skiing at all, so why are you saying I made an error of judgment? |
I've read your opening post two or three times and I'm not actually sure what your complaint is. Are you saying that even if you had known how bad conditions were your still would have bought a Paradiski pass? If so, I really don't understand what you are complaining about.
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madskier, what evidence have you that the reports you read prior to booking were not accurate at the time of publication?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| davidof wrote: |
To be fair to Madskier (and the SCGB) the conditions really did deteriorate very quickly in the first week of April and even though it was a bad snow year one might have expected better at a high resort although I thought conditions at the first EOSB were a bit poor and Graham was right to transfer to Val Thorens.
I think the Skibeat coach rep should have given better information but was obviously motiviated by LP sales. Speaking of which, Snowcrazy says the resort was giving 25% (which he thought was poor) yet Skibeat were only giving 10%, did I understand that right? |
Thanks for this, I will check. I definitely only got 10%.
I think too many enthusiasts overlook misinformation by ski tour operators and especially SCGB. If I go with Club Med or Mark Warner on tennis or sailing camp, then I expect to see 12 courts and 10 boats if told so in operators brochure or website.
If there are only 20% of runs available, then people should not be misled by number of lifts operating. Why should it be any different from other holidays?
If I go to Wimbledon and weather effects play, I get refunds based on hrs of actual tennis played.
Some people seem to suggest that deception by ski holiday companies should be allowed because weather effects ski runs and they have to make money somehow.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| madskier wrote: |
| I understand that TO agent gets some commision for selling ski passes, but long term it will backfire on ski holiday companies. |
I think the commission is small and getting smaller. They've been doing it ever since package hols started so I doubt anything will change.
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madskier, you obviously do not have much to complain about??
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You know it makes sense.
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madskier, if a TO has actually deceived you and you think you can prove it and you have lost money as a result, you do have recourse. Just sue in the Small Claims Court and let the court decide.
How much did your holiday cost? And what proportion of it do you argue should be repaid to you? Best if we get an idea of the size of the "damage" eh?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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madskier, did you check the Les Arcs official website before you booked or travelled to resort. If you did you will see that liftpasses have been reduced by 30% since 12th April. The snow report also seems to have been accurately reporting the poor conditions (currently says less than 30% of the ski area is open, with 19/54 lifts operational).
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Poster: A snowHead
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| madskier wrote: |
| Please read what I wrote in full before making comments about ambarassment etc. As I said, I would have bought the area pass anyway, unless told there was no skiing at all, so why are you saying I made an error of judgment? |
I've read your opening post two or three times and I'm not actually sure what your complaint is. Are you saying that even if you had known how bad conditions were your still would have bought a Paradiski pass? If so, I really don't understand what you are complaining about. |
Well, because my post was not just about my holiday experience, but a wider treatment of skiing punters by SCGB and TOs.
I was already in resort, so what was the point of not skiing if I like skiing anyway? However others do not look at skiing like this and for them having choice and not being deceived was very relevant.
I really fail to see, why ski operators should not refund the unused days of ski pass if weather is so bad and just charge normal daily rate for days skied?
My post was looking for some ways for others (who asked me) to get at least partial refunds. I guess they should have lodged official complaint with SkiBeat and resort immediately, but even now if someone did not ski for days, it should be clearly visible on database scanning/storing ski pass usage?
You on this forum might have jolly good laugh about "idiots" who wasted thousands of family savings on "skiing" holidays, but for many it was something they looked forward too all year and it was heartbreaking looking at dissapointed children and adults taken for a ride.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| madskier wrote: |
I think too many enthusiasts overlook misinformation by ski tour operators and especially SCGB. |
So given that you especially blame the SCGB, what evidence have you that the SCGB reports you read prior to booking were not accurate at the time of publication?
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If I go with Club Med or Mark Warner on tennis or sailing camp, then I expect to see 12 courts and 10 boats if told so in operators brochure or website.
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Jesus Christ! You do yourself no favours, do you?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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madskier, I'm not laughing at you, as I said I'm sorry you had poor snow conditions. I'm simply trying to understand what it is that you're complaining about.
I don't think is fair to expect lift companies to give a full refund for any days you don't use on your lift pass because the weather or snow is very poor. They still have staff to pay, infrastructure to keep running, etc. As it is the liftpasses in Paradiski have been discounted by 30%. I'd like to see a bit more of a discount, but I don't think 30% is too miserly.
Why should Skibeat offer you a refund? They provided all the services that you expected of them, didn't they? They provided accommodation, food, airport transfer, resort staff, etc? Skibeat can hardly be blamed for the poor snow conditions.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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stop stop this you lot. feck me, the guy had a lionel, he's no doubt skied alot, probably loads of good and bad experiences and despite that is not at all cynical, fairly trusting one could say, so i guess we're beter for not making bad worse and rubbing his nose in it. i'm sure there are loads like him, people that get the thin end, i can't believe he's still posting on the subject, you're like the villagers in the holy grail, did he say jehovah?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Why should Skibeat offer you a refund? They provided all the services that you expected of them, didn't they? They provided accommodation, food, airport transfer, resort staff, etc? Skibeat can hardly be blamed for the poor snow conditions. |
He's blaming the SCGB for what he claims were misleading snow reports, which he read prior to booking and which he says encouraged him to book. But he refuses to answer my question:
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| So given that you especially blame the SCGB, what evidence have you that the SCGB reports you read prior to booking were not accurate at the time of publication? |
He also blames the TO Rep, who he claims gave him misleading information on the coach regarding snow conditions.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I had a great time last week last day of opening in Ste Foy, then on for a day in Tignes both on the snowboard then what I consider the best day of the season in Le Fornet and Solaise on skis. The rest of the week was spent walking and mountain biking.
If you are based in Les Arcs it is only a short drive up to Espace Killy! where the conditions whilst not perfect were certainly skiable!
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
madskier, if a TO has actually deceived you and you think you can prove it and you have lost money as a result, you do have recourse. Just sue in the Small Claims Court and let the court decide.
How much did your holiday cost? And what proportion of it do you argue should be repaid to you? Best if we get an idea of the size of the "damage" eh? |
Personally, I skied all week and SkiBeat chalet, chalet hosts and food were very good, so the only thing I am dissapointed about is the extent and quality of skiing, which was worth 50% of ski pass max. If, as posted by someone here, my ski pass discount should have been 25% anyway, we are only taking about another 25% of the ski pass i.e. circa 57 Euro.
So it is nothing to do with money for me.
However many others would not have skied after first day and definitely not every day.
As for my girlfriend, she feels that her injury is partially due to deciding to ski (after paying ski pass money) when not being able to claim money back for unused ski pass.
Whether skiing if unhappy with conditions because you paid your money is sensible is another matter.
We have decent annual policy with no excess etc, so she will get her "refund" now after injury.
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Given madskier's 48 years of experience I have very little sympathy and perhaps he should have been more cynical/ done his homework but I have got quite annoyed with emails from some tour operators from mid-March onwards talking about 'great' conditions in the French alps. Sailing very close to misrepresentation indeed.....there'd have been a lot to be said for the tour operator that said "Conditions ok, not a great year but you'll still have a great holiday if you want to"....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| madskier wrote: |
| If, as posted by someone here, my ski pass discount should have been 25% anyway, |
It's 30% discount for all passes valid after 12th April.
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FAQ
