 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The angles indeed are the same, just referred to from different perspectives.. Frankly I have never understood why the two schools of angle reference emerged. Possibly EU way and Yank way...
Before you go off and get a fixed angle one, be sure to know the angle that was set at the factory on your skis/board.
http://www.jonsskituning.co.uk/content/view/31/41/ is where you can look to get a basic idea. Most companies are still the same, but if you have specialist skis (like race skis) it might be different.
If you want to change the angle to somehig either more or less aggressive, the you will need those angles as well.
But don't go for the "edge trick" model, it's too small and has too great a margin of error.
There are a few like those you linked to available at jibtuning.co.uk
The "speed compact" or "racing sharp kit" are great for portability, multiple side angles, and some base angles as well.
Remember that even when touching up edges, sometimes a light base angle pass can be beneficial too.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| quadwould wrote: |
But don't go for the "edge trick" model, it's too small and has too great a margin of error.
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sorry but used for removing burrs with the oxide stone and a polish with the tiny diamond stone it works fine, its not designed for anything major and wont change any angles.
jons ski tuning has a dvd guide to tuning and he will be able to advise what you need, just give him a call or email
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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IMHO, some adjustable models can be a pain - particularly if they adjust themselves while you are not looking. I've had this happen in the middle of servicing some skis and it made a right mess. The tool was a reassuringly expensive one too.
Now, my preference is for one with wedges for 1deg, 2deg and 4deg that you mix and match to get the correct angle. The wedges always stay the same angle and never fall out.
Like this SKS/FK-Tools one:
Reasonably priced too!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Crazy Climber, another vote for Jon's lessons and kit. I have bought lots from him and comes with some very useful advice too.
Kersh
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| carroz wrote: |
sorry but used for removing burrs with the oxide stone and a polish with the tiny diamond stone it works fine, its not designed for anything major and wont change any angles. |
Indeed the edge trick is good for a light burr removal and a post filing finish, but if one needs to properly re-edge mid week (hard icy pistes all week) then it would not the the right tool. the lack of size makes it too unstable to provide a consistent angle al the way through. we are merely human and a slight shift og pressure on the tool might biase is to be more acute or obtuse in angle.
| altis wrote: |
IMHO, some adjustable models can be a pain - particularly if they adjust themselves while you are not looking. I've had this happen in the middle of servicing some skis and it made a right mess. The tool was a reassuringly expensive one too.
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Totally, I have had the same esperience. - an thus why i mentioned the "racing sharp kit" at Jibtuning (similar to the Toko one sonmeone was talking about in another thread recently....
If one is looking to have something in the pack and for travel in general, these small units are great. If one wants some serious edge filing kit, then the hard fixed wedge systems like the one altis mentioned or like the Beast or the multitude of other Angle-Handle-Clamp-Files ones out there are theway to go. these are best for home tuning and not travel due to size and weight (not Easyjet weight-limit friendly due to the number of parts to the kit)
oh and +1 for Jon's tuning uides. He offers very thorough advice on his website, as well as good kit for the serious diy-er
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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another vote for Jon here now! got back to me on Sat and was still replying to his emails at 8 on Sat evening! Top guy!
As people told me, good solid advice from him with explanation rather than the 'this is best just because' kind of answer. Thus helping me to learn by knowing why/how these work 
He also recommended the edge trick, or the moonflex minituner - the latter giving slightly more versatility in the long run. i.e. by being small/light enough for travel and mid-trip touch-ups but also man enough to start off a basic DIY bench kit...
So thinking the latter will most likely be the way to go, it also takes a wide variety of files/stones to boot. The moonflex is a fixed angle so you don't have the issue of it adjusting its self by accident mid tune, being that its only going to be for my skis this is a plus point for me.
Now, as far as I know, the grit grading of diamond stones (also called files? or are diamond files different?) the higher the number the finer the stone? ie a 600 grit would be more of a finishing/polishing stone than a 100 grit?
for a medium and fine stones for polishing edges up after a bit of a touch up with an alu-oxide stone what grits would you suggest? This would not be for major DIY tuning (just yet) just for keeping edges in good nick during a trip...
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Crazy Climber, yep, the higher the grit number the smoother the cut. And yes a diamond file is the same as a diamond stone.
For a single diamond file solution a 200grit works well or for a two diamond stone solution either a 200/600 combo works well or if you want a bit more initial cutting a 100/400 combo.
Always use a diamond file/stone wet - water, beer, spit or snow all work well or especially my own Easicut fluid - but never use anything oil based as it'll get in to the ski base.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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This thing works well for me http://tooltonic.com/tuningFile.asp The kit also comes with a sidewalk planer attachment. I set the edges one time with the file and only use the diamond stone after.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Always go in one direction, preferably tip-to-tail.
If you have seen videos with what looks like people sandpapering back and forth, what you dont see is the up close bit, the back part is without any pressure and even lifting a bit.
Doing the edges in overlapping passes is easier than havin to walk along the ski and maintaining the same pressure.... That is for the oxide stone ( 1st level) and the diamond stone (3rd/last level)
When filing wih the file, a uniform pass is best if you can manage it, due to how the removed material will burr up/spiral/gather. Pass, wipe, pass, wipe....
Mark the edges wih a black marker to see what you have done and have left.
Check out the Ski Man "racing sharp" on jibtuning.co.uk , it's a great little kit cuz it has the oxide stone for first removing nasty dings and such, then the proper file for sharpening the edge/changing the edge angle, and then the diamond stone for the final polish and also for daily touchups.
It's compact, stable, and light (good for traveling on easyjet with), oh and fairly inexpensive for what it does/has.
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You know it makes sense.
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quadwould, be carefull some of the advice given on JIB's website videos is of a very poor quality  basic stuff too.
Edit: IMHO
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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kevindonkleywood,
I never pay attention to those videos as I have been tuning skis (rec and race) for over 20 years.
Didnt even know Jib had videos, Just checked them out...
Yeah the Jib videos are a mixed bag.. some good content, but then some not so good content.. --- "you can do the base edge first if you like, or the side edge, doesnt really mater..." ... RUBBISH!! ONLY BASE 1st THEN SIDE 2nd.. Never the reverse!
and the bit about edge angles.. leaves miles of room for interpretation....
the videos I was thinkingCrazy Climber might watch are the ones on Swix School or elsewhere on places like Racewax or like youtube (where one would hope it is understood that those clips are to be taken with salt)
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Poster: A snowHead
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quadwould, sorry my misunderstanding.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ah yeas, the world of youtube... some videos said "always do it like this and NEVER like that" other said always do it like that and NEVER like this"... more than a little contradicting!
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Doing the edges in overlapping passes is easier than havin to walk along the ski and maintaining the same pressure.... That is for the oxide stone ( 1st level) and the diamond stone (3rd/last level)
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So are you saying that for oxide and diamond stones you should do them in one pass but filing is ok to over lap? or its ok to overlap with all?
Many appologies for the dense-ness it Firday, sunny outaide (and I am inside) and its been a long week...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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the reverese of that....
It's ok to overlap with the Oxide (the 1st step) to remove localised burrs and dings.
Then do a full-length passes with the File (2nd step) to set the angle.
Then try for full-length passes with the Diamond Stone (3rd step) (remember to wet te stone for lubrication), but if you can't do full length passes with even pressure, then shorter overlapping passes will be ok too.
the wetness on the diamon file is essential to keep the diamond file from clobbing up with gunk. be sure to wipe the ende and file, then re-wet inbetween each ful length. You'll notice lots of greyish black metal dust on the wiping cloth.. better on there than on the ski and file..
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Finally took the plunge, Moonflex minituner and aluoxide+diamond stones.
This is with the thoughts that for now all I'll be doing is keeping edges nice during trips but as soon as I have the space to do my own tuning I will be so this should make a good start to a kit for use on a bench as well.
Thanks for all the advice! and standby for more bone questions once I have the kit in my hands and its all going wrong 
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FAQ
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