 Poster: A snowHead
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For the first and last time we have booked our annual trip with Crystal Ski.
We should have been going to Tignes in FIVE days time and they have phoned to say the hotel is full and we have to go to Courchevel instead.
Anyone any advice to offer us on our rights - or anything we ought to be negotiating? It is a bit late at this time to tell them to stuff it and we'll trot off to the travel agents. Do they do this often? This is also the first time we have ever booked online (booked about two weeks ago) does that have anything to do with it - always used a travel agents before.
Do tour operators overbook by large margins...or was accommodation full and certain nationals with a greater spending power than us Brits have outbid us at the last minute?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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JanA, They did it to me once too, I never travelled with them again after that. There's a lengthy thread on this subject around here somewhere - but I'm struggling to remember what it was called to search for it. Hopefully someone will be along shortly who can remember/find it.
I know it's not what you wanted, but is Courchevel a viable alternative? Is the accomodation better for example?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Heck...thanks for very quick responses.
We have an hour to make the decision; the booking is in my other half's name and he will be home from night shift fairly shortly (and doesn't actually know yet) so the Crystalski person would only give me brief details and will only accept a decision from him when he phones back.
This was bit of a budget holiday; is Courchevel much more expensive 'out and about' compared with Tignes? Are there lots of flats on the easier runs (me = dodgy boarder)?
I suppose 3 Valleys compares favourably with what would have been available at Espace Killy and I would expect the passes to be similar cost.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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JanA, the lift passes with cost roughly the same. Also a comparable range of runs, if you like valley cruising then either are great. The big question is which Courchevel are they putting you in? 1850 has the best location, but virtually no apres or bar scene unless you have a black Amex. 1650 better for going out, but some don't like being on the edge of the 3V area. 1550/1350 are small, OK, but a couple of lifts further down the mountain so not quite so convenient.
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What's important here as well is what area of Courchevel you're staying in???
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Thank you again!
I have just had a look at the "Where to Ski" 2011 and I could weep. We've been to Tignes in the summer for the Glacier Ski-ing and wanted to return again. The comments in the book about Courchevel and ritzy Michelin starred restaurants and unpleasantly high prices are, sorry, just everything I dislike about ski-ing.
We've come into ski-ing from climbing/caving and just don't 'do' that scene. We skied in Chamonix last year and were determined that this year we were going back to a 'ski for ski-ings sake' type holiday. I'd honestly prefer a whiteout at the top of the Ptarmigan run to this!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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JanA, I wouldn't take that too seriously. The ritzy restaurants are all in 1850, and even then in a specific area of 1850. The other bases (1650, La Tania) will have the same prices (probably even cheaper in some cases) than Tignes.
It's not brilliant that you've had your holiday changed, but 3V/EK are at least comparable areas. Courchevel has it's detractors (me included), but its location in the 3V can hardly be beaten.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Mon 14-03-11 11:48; edited 1 time in total
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JanA, Why not have a quick look on IGLUski.com and Ifyouski.com to see what sort of alternatives might be available if you cancel and for negotiation purposes if you don't. There are a few Leeds/Tignes showing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hi,
You should be entitled to either:
- a full refund of everything you have paid
- an equally priced or more expensive replacement holiday which you are happy with
- a lower priced replacement holiday which you are happy with plus a refund of the financial difference.
Check out how much the Courcheval holiday would cost to book today before you agree something. There is no hurry from your point of view to make a decision so make sure you're happy first.
They'll probably be loath to refund you the money you've paid so if I was you I'd accept the holiday and ask for some free liftpasses on top for the inconvenience - see what you can get!
Good luck . . .
Heather
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Also check out the snow conditions. 3V isn't brilliant at the moment, but I don't know how much this can be used in a contractual argument.
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You know it makes sense.
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Courchevel isn't russion billionaires outside 1850. We stayed in 1650 in January and the nightlife is good, sensibly priced compared to Tignes (we were there in December) and if the location is close to the lifts you will have a great time. The mountain restaurant options in 3V are more than in Espace Killy, and several cheaper options, especially in 1650.
They are putting you under time pressure to try and get you to agree to something without thinking it through. They do not want to renegotiate, they do not want you to cancel. They are hoping for a panic decision with only an hour to make it, don't do it.
Do your research - check that the hotel you are being moved to is equal/better, ask on here with the names of the hotels/chalets and we can advise whether they are any better/worse. Also worth going through a travel agent and seeing what availability they have, you might find a last minute space in a luxury chalet or hotel could be arranged at no cost, they are less likely to fill it at this notice so may be prepared to do a deal.
I would seriously consider the Courchevel option, it is a good resort that I'd happily go back to, the equal of Tignes in every respect IMO.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Certainly given the snow conditions I'd be favouring Tignes.....
Courchevel tops out at about 2800m (admittedly the rest of the 3V is higher but you'll have to ski through Meribel to get there which can be slushy/icy even in good snow years). In terms of the quality of skiing back to your accommodation Tignes would win hands down this year.
All in all given the dodgy snow I'd be inclined to take a refund and see what you can book last minute in Italy or even Andorra (where the snow is loads better and better value for money). I'd take a look at snow reports and forecast- Crystal could be offering you a lifeline! 
That is of course little consolation if you'd been looking forward to Tignes!
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Poster: A snowHead
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JanA, Hi, tried to PM you but it seems something gone awry with my Snowheads account.
Just to say we're aware of the issue and I have just spoken to our Head of Customer Services to help get this one sorted for you.
We will be in touch shortly.
Feel free to PM me in the meantime if there's anything else you'd like to raise - although I'm not sure whether that will work due to above Snowheads problems!
Thanks
David Jarvis
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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David Jarvis, Welcome and well done for quick action  Your SnowHeads account is 'down a crevasse' (see under your username) which usually means a problem with your registered email address on here. If you ask a Mod nicely, they should be able to advise
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Just had a quick look at snow reports on SCGB. Courchevel is reported as having 'Worn' conditions on piste and resort runs, Tignes is reported as 'Good' and 'Hard' respectively. Both have some snow forecast (c.20cms). Italian resorts are reporting more recent snow, more snow forecast in next 10 days and better piste conditions.
If Crystal are having to cancel contract I'd either request they tranfer you to Italy or refund in full. Igluski showing some options at pretty reasonable prices (and big discounts). Oh and also with flights from Manchester (I see you're in the Yorkshire Dales so it could be worse!)
Take a deep breath and research what else is available- you may be pleasantly surprised!!!
Good luck
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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There is a pic-nic room at the bottom of the Saulire gondola..... (you can nip into the supermarket in the main centre in 1850 and pick up a sandwich and head straight up on the lift).
Courchevel is awesome so you'll have a great time, bear in mind the bottom of the slopes is c1300m so you should be ok(ish) at 1850 rain-wise
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| Schuss in Boots wrote: |
There's a bunch of us going to Tignes on the 27th and you'd be welcome to join us.
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Thanks you for that anyway; hope you have a really good time.
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| Chris Angus wrote: |
There is a pic-nic room at the bottom of the Saulire gondola..... (you can nip into the supermarket in the main centre in 1850 and pick up a sandwich and head straight up on the lift).
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Thank you; that is exactly the sort of information we need as first timers to 3V 
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JanA,
Let us know how you got on please
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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JanA,
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I must admit that when OH got home weary from nights (NHS!) we decided on a slightly yeah-yeah-whatever stress-limiting approach to keep things in perspective. We had to take into account that OH has a promotion interview on Friday and he should be preparing for that, rather than being preoccupied with what is happening on Saturday!
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David Jarvis, Lets hope your company does not cause any more stress, don't know about you, but I prefer the NHS to be stress free - in all respects!
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No worries. Be careful of coffee/beer prices etc in restaurants in the Courchevel valley (well above 1850 really), they are noticeably more expensive than Meribel and the Val T valley. 1650 has a couple of more reasonable spots esp at resort level. Otherwise Val T/Les Menuires are relatively reasonably priced. You are not going to spend a lot more than you would have done in Tignes (and about the same as Val d'Isere had you skiied over there for lunch).
There's a pretty good pizza spot in Meribel Chaudanne (1450) on the roundabout just off from the meeting spot- again relatively inexpensive- I am sure someone will know the name on here!
If you're going to hire skis make sure you book in advance online (it'll save you a healthy chunk of money).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Oh and you have to get across the 3V to L'Ours Blanc restuarant. It's in Les Menuires, and I'd quite happily eat there every day on a ski trip. If you have a nice lunch on one day all holiday, that's the place to do it. Their pizzas are great, their salads are huge, and their steaks are unbelievable.
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You know it makes sense.
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La Tania is a good place for cheap lunches.
or
Try the bakery in 1850 (in the Forum where the ice skating rink is), grab a baguette and head up the mountain to a sunny spot.
Resort should be fairly quiet next week..
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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JanA, Hi, I'm sure you'd rather we didn't discuss your holiday options in a public forum, so I'll try to keep this to the point.
Our Customer Services people tell me you've had an alternative from us, and even if that doesn't work for you we're dedicated to finding something that will, we'll just need to understand your requirements. It's standard practice that we deal with the lead passenger on the booking for obvious reasons.
So we have options for you, however as time is getting on if you do want to go with the holiday then we need to get the wheels in motion. Sorry to add on the pressure, but at this late stage it's a practical issue about availability I'm afraid. Please can your other half get back to Kirti in our Customer Services team as soon as they can.
We'll happily provide a refund and a small amount of compensation should the worst come to the worst. I think I'd still want to go on holiday though!
Thanks
David Jarvis
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Poster: A snowHead
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David Jarvis, Glad that you appear to be doing something.
Perhaps you could enlighten us as to how the UK's largest ski operator only knows
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Tignes in FIVE days time and they have phoned to say the hotel is full
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FIVE days in advance that a hotel is full, I would assume you sell 7 day holidays so would I be wrong to assume you had in excess of 7 days notice of this c0ck up by someone?
Also are you really telling us that TIGNES is also full next week?
and please don't try and fob us all off by blaming the Hotelier.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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[grabs armchair and bag of popcorn] 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Boredsurfing, not sure I like the tone of your post tbh.
Anyway, the facts of the situation:
- Regrettably, there was shall we say a misunderstanding between Crystal and the hotelier about availability.
- Crystal has not contracted the whole hotel for the whole season, the hotelier had made other arrangements
- We have offered a *comparable holiday* as an initial alternative. It would not be comparable to offer a lower quality of hotel in the same resort, or a higher standard of accommodation without catering for example.
- There was not a *comparable holiday* in the same resort on this occasion
As we're not in control of things overseas on this one, I think we're doing all we can to help someone go on holiday, and if that doesn't work out as I said refunds will be happily paid.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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David Jarvis,
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Boredsurfing, not sure I like the tone of your post tbh.
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Oh sorry.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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David Jarvis, http://mag.digitalpc.co.uk/fvx/crystal/sir2010/
Page 15, one assumes this situation is a direct result of 'capacity reduction' which is 'better commercially'. 'cos we can move the punters to where the beds are unsold rather than giving them the holiday they thought they booked, best not to tell them until it's too late so they don't have a chance to re book with someone else.
Pessismistic me? No, realistic yes, Crystal is still in business. Ski Beat lost half a million on a turnover of £5.2 million.
If Tour Operators were a bit more upfont rather than giving stressed out people 5 days notice then perhaps the DIY sector would be almost unheard of and not represent such a threat to TO's.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 14-03-11 15:14; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I'm not sure he'll enjoy the tone of that either 
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Bode Swiller, aw, come on I've edited it and I'm sure he gets much worse elsewhere 
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Boredsurfing, trying to frighten him off
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Boredsurfing, think this has gone a bit off topic now.
Misunderstandings do happen, that's just a part of life.
Of course Crystal doesn't want these things to happen, that's pretty ridiculous because we would have more refunds than revenue (which we don't). If Crystal didn't care about customers then we wouldn't have organised over 50 buses to bring people back from the slopes last winter when the volcano hit (which we did). If people were happier to DIY than go with tour operators then tour operators wouldn't be in business (which they are).
As far as this situation goes from what I understand as soon as we knew what was happening overseas we were in touch with customers affected and we have arranged alternatives.
It's a regrettable situation but those affected would have been worse off if they had booked independently.
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FAQ
After Chamonix last winter, the bad mannered Russian billionaires were exactly the people we wished to avoid. Oh well, if any of you see a couple of pikeys with lunchtime doggy bags in 1850 next week come and say hello.
