 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| roga wrote: |
| First off I believe the curriculaum has been changed and you don't need to do coaching experience between Levels 1 and 2 - is that correct? |
Yes, that's correct, sort of. If you are doing these courses to meet ISIA requirements then ADC 1 and 2 are sufficient. But if you want to keep your coaches licence you do need to provide a log of coaching hours. At least that's how I understand it.
| roga wrote: |
| As far as I can work out I should be fine doing ADC L1 (I'm currently a L2 BASI Alpine instructor) but what about ADC L2? Anyone got any info about what's in the curriculum or what level is required? |
Yes, you must start with ADC1, and ADC2 is required as part of your ISIA. There is not a read across from Alpine L1 to ADC L1, so L2 Alpine instructors start with ADC L1. Not sure about the ADC2 curriculum but it will cover slalom and giant slalom coaching (and you are required to take SL and GS skis, SL protection and a ski servicing kit when you do the course)
| roga wrote: |
| How taxing would it be to do the ADC 1 at the end of one week, have a couple of days off and then do the ADC 2 Moday to Thursday the next week? |
I think lots of people do run L1 and L2 back to back (I think there's a day's break between the two. I did my L1 indoors and have L2 this May, mainly for reasons of keeping costs down as I did the L1 at Hemel.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks for that Roga; was about to ask the same questions; Rob; many thanks for the answers; just need to wait for an ADC1 at Hemel or MK 
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roga, scooby_simon, don't know much about the current ADC L1 but I believe it's the same as the one I did, perhaps with a slightly higher skiing level required to pass. In any case any L2 instructor should have no probs.
The current ADC L2 will assess coaching and skiing skills and will teach you to set slalom and GS courses. They expect to see application of the coaching tools introduced on the L1 course. While one group sets another will run a coaching session with multiple cycles through each on each day. There'll be 2 days on slalom and 2 days on GS. They'll expect to see all the elements of good GS and slalom type turns consistently demonstrated in free skiing but won't be so exacting of your technique when skiing the courses. Evenings will be biomechanics, ski prep and movement analysis.
Let me know if there's anything else you want to know. I was planning on doing the ADC L2 in May but twisted my ankle doing GS so will have to see how things go now.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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slikedges,
Funds will only allow ADC1 this year; and will have to be fridge based !
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thanks for the info guys.
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Yes, that's correct, sort of. If you are doing these courses to meet ISIA requirements then ADC 1 and 2 are sufficient. But if you want to keep your coaches licence you do need to provide a log of coaching hours. At least that's how I understand it. |
Ah right, so passing is sufficient for ISIA? Mind you seems like a bit of a waste not to do the coaching hours and get the licence.
| roga wrote: |
| Yes, you must start with ADC1, and ADC2 is required as part of your ISIA. There is not a read across from Alpine L1 to ADC L1, so L2 Alpine instructors start with ADC L1. Not sure about the ADC2 curriculum but it will cover slalom and giant slalom coaching (and you are required to take SL and GS skis, SL protection and a ski servicing kit when you do the course) |
Yeah, I knew I had to do the L1 first, probably didn't put the question very well, was not sure how high level the ADC 2 is though but that helps thanks Rob. I'll check with BASI was the requirements are with regards skis, I have slalom skis but no GS ones so might have to beg borrow or steal some if I do the 2 straight after the 1, okay with the protection too as in helmet with chin guard, guard on poles and shin guards. I'll also ask them if there are any size rules for the skis, my slalom skis are below the minimum FIS length for males IIRC.
| roga wrote: |
| I think lots of people do run L1 and L2 back to back (I think there's a day's break between the two. I did my L1 indoors and have L2 this May, mainly for reasons of keeping costs down as I did the L1 at Hemel. |
Yeah, I'm thinking about doing the ones at the Gorm in April which would keep costs down because I'm there anyway (instructing) and have a season ticket so no worries with accomodation and lifts. They're running them almost back to back with 3 days free in between which strikes me as a reasonable break to recover from the first and get ready for the next course.
scooby_simon, glad it's not just me wanting the information 
| slikedges wrote: |
| roga, scooby_simon, don't know much about the current ADC L1 but I believe it's the same as the one I did, perhaps with a slightly higher skiing level required to pass. In any case any L2 instructor should have no probs. |
Thanks, sounds good to me.
| Quote: |
| The current ADC L2 will assess coaching and skiing skills and will teach you to set slalom and GS courses. They expect to see application of the coaching tools introduced on the L1 course. While one group sets another will run a coaching session with multiple cycles through each on each day. There'll be 2 days on slalom and 2 days on GS. They'll expect to see all the elements of good GS and slalom type turns consistently demonstrated in free skiing but won't be so exacting of your technique when skiing the courses. Evenings will be biomechanics, ski prep and movement analysis. |
Thanks for that too - really detailed and useful 
| Quote: |
| Let me know if there's anything else you want to know. I was planning on doing the ADC L2 in May but twisted my ankle doing GS so will have to see how things go now. |
Sorry to hear that, hope it gets better soon.
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roga, i heard a whisper that the L2 course will be changing yet again perhaps next season... in an effort to align the UK snowsports and BASI coaching courses the L2 will become a 6 day course.. you may want to get on the cairngorm one
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skimottaret, good point - they do seem to be changing the course rather frequently! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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roga, ski requirements have been confirmed as FIS reg for slalom and GS. Always a chance of getting away with less but I suspect a bloke wouldn't get away with 155cm slalom or sub-180cm GS and no one will be allowed skier cross/all mountain/twin tip/freeride skis.
skimottaret, yep, that's true, though there may yet be a last 4-day sitting this autumn
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slikedges, You could always argue that the FIS rules for Masters races let you use whatever skis you want.
A good proportion of the male candidates on the UKSS L4 Performance Coach course last summer were using 155cm slalom and female spec GS skis. I was on 165cm SL and 188cm GS and can safely say that I did not carve a turn all week, the snow was just too soft.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Have received official word from BASI and it basically confirms what's been written above (thanks again guys):
| Quote: |
... you can do the ADCL1 and 2 in any order or back to back. If you complete the Level 2 before the Level 1 you do not gain the level 2 qualification until you have completed the level 1 and 2.
Please see below for the equipment information.
Equipment Requirements
Slalom skis & Giant Slalom skis. The exact FIS specifications can be found at the following website: www.fis-ski.com
As a rule of thumb, the manufacturer's shop race model normally conforms but please note in particular the length and radius requirements. These can be hired locally but in limited numbers.
Please ensure that you have a crash helmet, suitable for both slalom and GS as well as appropriate padding for clearing slalom gates (this may include pole guards and shin pads).
Students are expected to wear suitable clothing that allows them to ski though race courses uninhibited.
Sunglasses must not be worn when skiing through the race course.
Students are also expected to have their equipment well prepared throughout the course and will need to bring the appropriate waxing and sharpening equipment to do so.
I do not have any further information than what is available on the website, please look at the following link.
http://www.basi.org.uk/content/coaching.aspx |
So, L1 is straightforward equipment wise but L2 not so - serious question; does anyone have to loan/sell, or anyone know of a place where I can hire/buy cheap, FIS compliant slalom and GS skis?
The cost of buying new plus the cost of the course would be prohibitive, particularly GS skis which I'm not gonna be using again unless I go for the speed test (at which point a few years will have passed and I'll probably want a newer pair anyway). Don't mind buying 165 slaloms so much given my current pair (155cm) were bought more for dry than snow anyway so I should be skiing snow in a longer pair to be honest.
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roga, the below is from Ross Green re the ADC2 syllabus:
"The syllabus for the ADC L2 involves 2 days course setting in both slalom and giant slalom (both of which you will be skiing) and coaching sessions.
You are assessed on your skiing ability (not through the courses, just on the piste) as well as your reveiws of your coaching and setting.
There are also lectures on ski-prep, biomechanics and a written test on skier analysis."
I'll put your point re FIS GS and SL skis to BASI and see what they say. In the meantime you could try posting on the BASI FB page and see if someone has any to sell.
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You know it makes sense.
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beanie1, thanks for the info there, very useful.
Can I ask whether the ADC L2 course involves much in the way of training (like say the L2 Alpine does) or are you expected to pitch up already at the required level and ready to ski the required way and perform the correct demos straight away?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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roga, answer below!
"Students have four days of training to reach the standard.
I would borrow or hire skis - unless there is ambition to take the eurotest, in which case I would buy the kit. There are various online forums where one could ask (epicski or snowheads) or alternatively any race club (britski.org) may have kit to sell. We try to organise the groups so that people can borrow or share with others on the course. There are plenty of local shops that hire out the skis where we run the course."
I have a copy of the course overview and timetable that's given out on the first evening, PM me if you'd like a copy by email.
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Poster: A snowHead
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beanie1, again thanks for the info.
I'm looking at doing the courses at Cairngorm - not sure if there's anywhere locally that hires FIS compliant kit to be honest, any suggestions? Come to think of it does BASI have any at the ofice in Grantown?
Will PM you about the course overview and timetable.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've booked ADC 1 but still umming and aaahing over the 2 - don't want to book and then discover I can't get hold of the correct skis! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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roga, get some short piste performance skis and some longer ones, nobody will care what they are as long as you rip it up whether they are FIS or not. you wont fail due to having skis x cm too short
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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roga, Fergus suggested the BASI offer. Still pricey but you could then sell them on.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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skimottaret, I have 155s already for slalom on dry but I'm guessing 10cm short is too short!
beanie1, hmm will have a look but as you say a bit pricey and if I don't get it I'll have to hang onto them until the next try ... will see what I can find.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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roga, why don't you call the local hire shops and see what they have.
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| roga, Fergus suggested the BASI offer. Still pricey but you could then sell them on. |
Appears the Atomic - BASI offer site is now down; Shame; was after a pair of GS skis to play on; Will have to wait until when it re-opens(Currently April 2011  )
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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roga, thanks for your feedback, I will relay your feedback to the office.
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roga, beanie1, +1. this massive outlay to take (and possibly fail+retake) a single module has effectively stopped me proceeding with any ISIA modules for the moment. There seems to be no particular incentive for those who teach skiing, as opposed to coaching racers, to achieve this level unless its merely a stepping stone to ISTD.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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beanie1, thanks - I do hate to moan about the issue but I feel the observations are valid (particularly so given gilo's comments).
Checking online I can probably get hold of second hand GS and SL skis for around £500 for both so could be worse - the GS ones seem to be cheaper at around £200 which I guess is reflective of their more specialist nature. Decent second hand SL skis don't seem to come cheaper than around £300 but I guess there may be the occassional bargain that pops up. As has been pointed out borrowing or hiring is an alternative but I don't know anyone with GS skis of the right length I can borrow (have asked around) and hiring where I'd be doing the course is impossible, at least according to those I've contacted. I guess in some Alpine resorts that option might be a possibility but I don't know for sure and I guess you'd still be forking out at least £100 or perhaps more. Anyway, add in the £355 course fees and I'm up to an outlay of £855 before the course starts. Okay, I do need to get some 165 SLs anyway and I can sell the GS skis on after the course but goodness it's a lot of hassle and money up front for a course that I don't even know I can pass (no requirements and clear pass levels online - which is another issue to be honest). I'm at Cairngorm anyway that week so I can write off accomodation costs but I'll loose 4 days work minimum so there's another £400 loss of earnings. I have a season ticket so no cost there either but if I was buying tickets too that would be another £120 in addition.
It all adds up I'm afraid and all for a course that's not even a main module for ISIA, in fact for a 4 day course the total outlay for some must be almost as much, if not more than the costs of the individual teach, tech and mountain safety modules.
gilo, I agree and it's the possibility of failing and having to retake that's particularly concerning given I'd then have to hang on to the GS skis and would be unable to sell them on straight away ... then it'll be the summer and probably no sale until next season. Personally I do think it's useful and valuable to do these coaching courses so I wouldn't question the fact we have to do them for ISIA but the strictness of the FIS compliancy rules do seem a little over the top for a course that for many instructors is only a stepping stone to ISIA and for many coaches is a stepping stone to higher level coaching coarses. Of course for all I know the compliancy rules may be demanded by the ISIA themselves and may be as strict or stricter in other countries than in the UK system - that being the case I guess we'll just have to shut up and put up with it! 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Interesting that they now require full FIS spec skis as (unless it changed this winter - I know some rules did) even the Eurotest does not require full FIS spec GS skis - minimum radius only needs to be 21m rather than the FIS 27m. 21m is way more reasonable for a general piste ski than is 27m. IIRC, I heard that the compliance rules were demanded by ISIA though. Shame, as my GS skis say 21m - but seemed just fine to train on.
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roga, I've discussed your concerns with Dave Renouf. For the ADCL2, course setting is a major part of the syllabus. You'll be setting courses for racers on FIS spec skis, therefore you really need to be on FIS spec skis too.
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You know it makes sense.
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roga, i have a pair of Atomic FIS SL skis sat here you can borrow, give me a call (soon before i go to meribel end of next week)....... you break em you buy em type rules apply
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I agree with the fact that the candidates should be on GS skis for the course but would question the need for the guys to be on Male FIS spec skis as I suspect the female (23m radius) would be sufficient to demonstrate and ski GS on.
Especially as the Eurotest asks only for 21m radius skis as the minimum.
How many people who do the ADC2 will go on to set for and coach FIS racers? very few in my experience. Most people see it as a hoop to jump through for their ISIA and will do no further race coaching beyond their required hours.
Someone needs to take a step back and look at this from a common sense perspective. It makes no sense to stick to FIS rules which are there for performers for a coaching course only to work to different ski specs if that candidate goes forward to the Eurotest.
I would suggest that ladies FIS spec skis would suffice for the guys on this with some leeway for ladies doing the course.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks CEM, really appreciate that
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Would be very surprised if the tutors look too hard at your skis. Pair of SL type kis for short rads would be very useful for your own performance and a 18m+ radius longer ski for longs will be fine I'm sure. Don't go spending a fortune....
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FAQ
Already tried that one - didn't wash! How did you know I'd be a Master? 
