 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm a cyclist, but I can't say I agree with the cam= bad cyclist idea.
For example, I ski year-round. In summer I go to an indoor ski hall. In summer, the place is full of professional skiers who race. They have extra protection. They wear metal face guards, shin guards, helmets, back protectors and their poles have hand guards.
If risk increases, you need to protect yourself.
My risk increases mainly with young males who are new to skiing and go straight down slopes because they can't turn yet. I've seen some get kicked off the slopes and sent back to the greens. But, there are too many of them...especially in February. So back protection it is.
I also wear a helmet on my bike. I feel that I might not need it, but why risk it?
You can each make your own choices, we don't all have to agree.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I wear a back protector. I'm sort of in the 'why wouldn't you camp', so I got one. As soon as I started considering it I came to the conclusion that what harm can it do to wear one? Zero, except a few quid off the bank balance. What benefit can it do, well possibly plenty.
I'm absolutely not of the view that it makes me push my boundaries any more, much like my helmet didn't. I don't like that idea. Pushing boundaries is fine, but at a sensible amount, not straining them until they almost break.
As for the camera = bad driver/cyclist. Utter tosh. Of course there will be some who fit the 'poor skills' category but that is the same with the non-camera guys.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| queenie pretty please wrote: |
4) Never
Don't even wear a helmet yet. Haven't really grown out of my 80s leisure skiing mindset. In fairness I ski fairly slowly on piste only and never do any 'mental stuff'.
I never wear a helmet cycling either, and frequently ride motorcycles (obviously not on the road) without a helmet or protective clothing.
You might think I'm reckless and foolhardy but it's my choice. I have no dependents.
Up to you entirely but please don't think that wearing all manner of protective clothing makes you invincible. If you want to 'push things that little bit further' your best piece of safety equipment will be adequate training and common sense. |
As long as if you have an accident you don't expect the state to pick up any additional bills due to more serious injury that wouldn't have been incurred if you were wearing appropriate safety gear then that's absolutely no problem having that POV 
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Why wouldn't you - they can hardly increase the risk, right? You should wear them in bed, it's the only sensible approach.....
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I doubt there are any statistics demonstrating any correlation between those who know how to ride/drive in cities and those who use cameras.
There's probably an effect in that people who've been run down may decide to use cameras (or helmets, for that matter), but that's not the same thing unless you control for who's responsible for any collision.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Back protection rules for me on busy pistes. (My brother-in- law nearly died after a hit and run from behind. )
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| Quote: |
If I could get a small camera with decent battery life I'd have one for my Sunday rides due to aggressive drivers. I also have a dash-cam in the car - been driving for nearly 40 yrs, no at fault accidents (2 no-fault), no convictions, IAM in car and motorbike. Does that make me a poor driver?
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I'm not offering even statistical evidence just personal anecdotes. If you understand the words "tend" and "good predictor" then you'd appreciate I'm not stating ALL cyclists with cameras are bad cyclists and I obviously woudn't say that about drivers either.
Obvious I'd have thought?
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| philwig wrote: |
Why wouldn't you - they can hardly increase the risk, right? You should wear them in bed, it's the only sensible approach.....
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Skiing suffers from the different approaches taken by people to it. Some see it as a leisure activity, others as an extreme sport. Though I suppose the same could be said of bedroom activities also...
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All safety equipment carries "costs" as well as benefits. The right balance depends on the specific situation and individual attitude to risk. I almost always wear helmets for skiing and cycling (although I think they make a rather small contribution to my safety). I almost always wear eye protection for cycling and skiing (rather more important than helmets in my view).
I also know that the research on "risk compensation" is really compelling and people who say they are immune to it are likely not as self-aware as they think.
I don't wear a back protector but I do wear a rucsac 90% of the time (skiing)
Last edited by After all it is free  on Wed 30-10-19 13:42; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| Back protection rules for me on busy pistes. (My brother-in- law nearly died after a hit and run from behind. ) |
I don't think I'm going to start wearing one as I've only had one proper collision when skiing, but if I had been wearing one when somebody skied it to me at speed a few seasons ago I suspect it would have made a difference to the kidney injury and general bruising I enjoyed as a result. It's tricky to get the balance right between mitigating risk and freedom from the encumberance of extensive protection.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I wear a back protector. I bought them a fair while ago for the kids to wear when they ski, so I got one for me at the same time (so they couldn't use that as a reason for them not to wear them). They don't mind them and neither do, so I use mine even when I'm away with my mates, too.
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Re OP question
Hip protectors helmet and backpack
On piste and off
I also have dash cams in cars but not on motorbike (as law abiding in car but less so on bike)
There are so many poor or bad or plain terrible drivers out there most have total lack of observational skills and situational awareness and with so many uninsured drivers it’s a useful backup
On bike it’s easy as I expect all drivers are out to kill me!
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You know it makes sense.
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I have a existing Lumber Spine injury. I feel i should be enough to ski in December. Never thought about investing in a back protector. I normally wear a pack. But now I think... Why not?
Any suggestions? I like the idea of the vests. So far I have looked at The POC VPD vest and the Scott Actifit Plus light ski vest. Both have level 1 ENI621 Protection.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| red wrote: |
I have a existing Lumber Spine injury. I feel i should be enough to ski in December. Never thought about investing in a back protector. I normally wear a pack. But now I think... Why not?
Any suggestions? I like the idea of the vests. So far I have looked at The POC VPD vest and the Scott Actifit Plus light ski vest. Both have level 1 ENI621 Protection. |
I initially bought a vest, like you I thought it would be a good idea, but didn't like the restriction to movement it gave. I have a POC VPD SYSTEM BACK now which is brilliant and I don't notice it is there until I sit down. Doesn't bother me on lifts and normally take it off for lunch like most of my other clothing.
Vest I bought and don't recommend is this: POC Sports Men's Spine Vpd Regular Vest
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Wed 30-10-19 15:38; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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@rob@rar, mine's very light and not an encumbrance. Nevertheless I only wear it when I think I'm going to be skiing on a really busy piste. I don't think I've ever worn it in Italy...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
On bike it’s easy as I expect all drivers are out to kill me!
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If you also expect cyclists to disobey red lights and pedestrians to step off the kerb without looking then as a cyclist you will avoid most problems!
(just in case - it's not OK that road users do these things but risk management as a cyclist involves allowing for the real possibility that they will do it)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Just as an aside anyone wearing one as protection from others because they are hit a lot please have a good hard look at your skiing - where you stop, when you start into the entropy of traffic, whether you choose death before download. My dad before he gave up skiing used to complain about people hitting him. I skied with him one day and could see why - no situational awareness of those around him, a tendency to veer suddenly to somewhere he wanted to take a photo, stopping in bad places and faffing without any attention to people coming down the slope.
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In my case, both times I was waiting for the lift!!!!
I'm reasonably comfortable neither time was my fault 
I was on a nursery slope both times and there were quite a few out of control skiiers that clearly had never had lessons (and clearly couldn't stop at the bottom), luckily of course being at the bottom on fairly flat ground they had lost most of their momentum, it was more the shock of being hit than the actual force.
Its never happened to me on an actual run, but additionally its not really the reason I wear a back protector, but it was (potentially) handy on both occasions.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Missed the 8 year bump. That's impressive resurrecting.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I started wearing a back protector because I acquired it for free, and a friend who wore one kept nagging me into it. It wasn't very comfortable on account of it being a man's small, when I'm a 5'4" size 8-10. But once you've started wearing it, I feel I can't not wear it, in case that's the day something happens. Fortunately a couple of years later I had the chance to acquire (this time for a tenner) a ladies small, and now I don't know I'm wearing it cos it actually fits properly. I now see no reason not to wear it, plus it's an extra layer of warmth (I'm a lizard...), and gives you something solid to lean back against on long chair lifts!
However, I'm not sure I'd be wearing one if I'd had to buy it at full retail, and my OH has never worn the free one I acquired for him.
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I've never worn a back protector, I've had many spills but I never experienced any back issues. As for wearing a helmet, in my short skiing career I've had two falls where the back of my head hit hard piste with a huge slam, leaving me dizzy and seeing stars, and I KNOW that if I hadn't been wearing a helmet I probably wouldn't be here to tell the story.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Just as an aside anyone wearing one as protection from others because they are hit a lot please have a good hard look at your skiing - where you stop, when you start into the entropy of traffic, whether you choose death before download. My dad before he gave up skiing used to complain about people hitting him. I skied with him one day and could see why - no situational awareness of those around him, a tendency to veer suddenly to somewhere he wanted to take a photo, stopping in bad places and faffing without any attention to people coming down the slope. |
This. I'm at around 1,500 days skiing in busy resorts and never been taken out. Self preservation, awareness, keeping up with the flow of traffic, uphill check when slowing down or changing line, appropriate terrain choice are all things in our own control for which we need to take responsibility to reduce the risk. For me it's instinctive now, but trying to instil the same in our 8 year old has made me realise how much work goes into avoiding being hit.
Anyone who isn't thinking about it, and is content to give away responsibility for their own safety to the uphill skier is making themselves a squishy target. As far as the original question, no back-protector, no helmet here - for me, gear is not the answer (except for kids).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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