 Poster: A snowHead
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Thinking of investing in a pair G.S skis in the end of year sales , but am confused about the difference between
Cheater/race/ F.I.S skis , help please 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Neilski, FIS spec GS skis have a sidecut radius of >27m (male) or >23m (female), the "cheater" skis have a sidecut radius less than this.
What do you want them for ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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sometimes, like with Slalom skis which have no radius specs for FIS regs, the cheater has a binding stand height of more than 50mm, or possibly (rarely) a ski tail height of more than 10mm
Cheaters and Real FIS skis aside, do you know what make you are going for? each make has a different feel, even though some are virtually identical (Atomic D2 - Salomon LAB) and (Rossignol - Dynastar).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Either people give you skis or you buy them, either way, people will tell you they are or are not. It's bollox really, buy well made skis, go fast and keep going.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, well said indeed!
Damn good advice.
Unless one must make the necessary bow to the keepers of the sacred Rules of FIS. What a drag...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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rjs, After this years trip to the PDS i rediscovered the enjoyment of piste skiing, as there was really no off piste at all. So spent a week re-learning to carve , I ski a mid fat all mountain ski with a 17m radius , which performed well enough, but struggled at times on the scrapped off and icy parts. So the thought is to have a set of skis to be able to really enjoy whatever conditions the mountains choose for me. I am 1.65 m tall and weigh 84 kg, and I like the trend back to longer skis , and want to work at the med to long turns to increase speed.
I have no specific make in mind , so would love some suggestions to research and hopefully pick a last years model bargain at the end of the season ready for 2012 
Cheers
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Neilski, I recently aquired a pair of Head TT80's in a 176 length. I'm a bit taller than you but weigh about the same.
The ski are 118-67-102 with a 14mtr turn radius. They rock on piste and are probably the quickest skis i've ever tried. They are very stable and track like they're on rails.Try to demo something similar. I think there's a "racier" Speed 13?
ps. you mention the trend back to longer skis...I've heard that head may be building ski over 2 mtrs again next year.
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GeorgeVII, Most manufacturers have made skis over 2M long for years. They are race Super G or Downhill skis.
I sold a pair of 215 DH Atomics to a Dutch guy who just wanted to go very fast on piste. Not a racer at all.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
ps. you mention the trend back to longer skis...I've heard that head may be building ski over 2 mtrs again next year
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That's nothing new, pretty much any non-slalom race ski will be around 2metres or over.
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clarky999, &Plugboy, . I meant for recreational skis, not race telegraph poles  .
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Neilski, "cheater" "race" skis have similar graphics to "real" "race" skis but are (a lot) easier to ski on, (a lot) more forgiving and better as all round skis for most people.
That said, I played on a chums new "cheater" slalom skis a couple of weeks ago and as a piste ski they were at least as much fun as my 4 year old, 120+ day,\not tuned in a while non-cheater SLs.
Something piste oriented would be the Rossignol 9X Oversize, more offpiste oriented maybe Stockli Stormrider VXL?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Interesting - two views here.
I'd rank cheater skis with narrower waist, therefore tighter radius, therefore easier to take the gates.
I'm not sure that cheater skis are the more forgiving versions of the race stock, or the recreational versions of punter race skis (Equipe GC,s vs 3V's for example) but the term can apply equally I suppose.
Race stock (for athletes) > Race (available in a shop) > Recreational race (a detuned race ski, a bit more forgiving). Salomon Lab probably fit somewhere between race stock and Race.
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starskee, my FIS SLs have a 66mm waist. How much narrower do you think you can get?
Maybe what you mean is more sidecut, as they tend to be wider underfoot...
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You know it makes sense.
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under a new name,
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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under a new name, My Omecarves 10's were 65 underfoot and they are classed as piste performance, not even race, but the point is, your FIS approved dimensions are there to ensure a level playing field, it doesn't stop Joe Normal from buying a pair of skis with a narrower waist (which may or may not translate to a lower turning radius) than the FIS equivalent.
You could buy Omeglass in 63mm underfoot for a season or two, doesn't mean they were FIS legal but the radius was less on those so you could theoretically turn a gate later and still make it.
You know what I mean though.
Cheater is either a ski with a lower sidecut to give you the edge in the turn, OR a more forgiving punter version named a cheater because you can appear to knwo what you are doing, but not be on race stock or even race level skis.
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Poster: A snowHead
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starskee, A 63mm waist slalom ski is still FIS legal. The main thing stopping Joe Normal from buying skis narrower than 65mm is that the manufacturers don't make them.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Arrgh, I'm not saying it right, or something, nevermind 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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So a gs cheater then ;D Head supershape magnum/whatever the other one is seem to be popular.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Indeed , just as clarky999 said, the Heads ( magnum or ispeed) or Rossignol R9X(09-10)/9GS(10-11), or Fischer RC4 RC, or Kastle RX, etc.....
Many of these are classed, as you rightly said, "cheater,
They are the step below the FIS ranges, and as such tend to look similar in graphics, have similar a feel ( ish, always softer and less demanding), and sometimes similar dimensions.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Neilski, Head iSpeed.
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thanks to all, the kastle rx is an interesting thought, i love the mx 88 as an all mountain ski, will now do some demos and see what turns up in the end of season sales 
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| GeorgeVII wrote: |
ps. you mention the trend back to longer skis...I've heard that head may be building ski over 2 mtrs again next year. |
HEAD have made a 2.00m piste ski for next season called the GTO Testoterminator, it's basically their SG Race ski in construction with the metal taken out.
17.6m radius @ 2.00m 118/63/100
Rocket Sled on Rails comes to mind.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Neilski, hmmm, if you'r enot a "high" standard of skier, I'm not sure I want to recommend anything that allows you to ski at "high" speed, least not when I'm around.
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| Quote: |
GTO Testoterminator
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Best name ever??!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| Quote: |
GTO Testoterminator
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Best name ever??!! |
Sorry I misspelt it, it's GTO Testosterminator
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You know it makes sense.
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Skier from Argentina, cheers , i have always admired stockli skis and will add them to short list
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Neilski, if you can get a hold of Vist Superfront Twos they would be perfect. Never been wanting for edge hold yet they are fairly happy in mixed piste conditions and good for cruising.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Neilski, hee hee, fair enough you too. I'd say unless you require good off piste performance, in which case you start compromising then something like the Rossi 9X Oversize (which is wide enough to be fair off piste) or Volkl Racetiger GS would be a lot of fun. Generally easy to find as rentals so easy to test.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Neilski, Vist have a nice reputation. Never skied them. Stocklis also a good suggestion. Frankly almost anything one level below all out race would probably suit. Nordica Spitfire also worth looking at.
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