 Poster: A snowHead
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Hey fellow SnowHeads,
A guy at work has very kindly planned and organised a trip for a whole bunch of us to Borovets. At first, I was worried because the snow forcasts were.....um.....well, disappointing. Recently, the snow has been looking pretty good so no worries there. Then I got an email last night from my pal which said this:
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Just found this on Snow-forcast.com:
Patrick Brown from United Kingdom
I just got back from Borovets after a 4-day trip with three friends. We stayed in an apartment in Borovets Gardens. The complex was nice, quite modern but wrongly advertised as having free access to the pool and sauna both of which had charges (note: the ‘day pass’ only allows for one session in each).
The resort itself is not the place for a family, aside from there not being much for kids to do, posters of naked women were plastered on lampposts left, right and centre, along with sex shops and erotic show clubs sitting next door to supermarkets.
We weren’t very lucky with the weather and the resort had not had snow for a few weeks prior to our arrival. Also, although the resort does have snow machines, they can only operate at temperatures of -7°C so we didn’t see them in use during our visit. That said, there were some runs open and we did try to ski everyday.
Overall, I found the resort to be very frustrating and felt that the whole place was set-up to swindle your money. A few examples: Firstly, the ‘supermarkets’ only appeared to stock crisps, beer and a few mushy apples, meaning you are forced to eat out on every occasion (making the kitchen in our apartment a pretty redundant feature- if you do feel the need to come to Borovets be sure to stock up in Sofia first). Whilst the overall cost of skiing in a place like Bulgaria is obviously cheaper, the day is broken up into three sessions in Borovets- morning, afternoon and night (1 run), meaning you’ll find yourself buying new passes every few hours. Perhaps the single most ridiculous thing I saw whilst there was the sight of hundreds of fellow skiers heading in the opposite direction on the ski lift! We were twice sold ski passes at the office, only to get to the top of the mountain and find no runs were open, leaving no option but to get back on the lift and sit like a lemon heading back down the mountain. The man at the top of the lift just said ‘no English’, and the ski passes have a no refund policy. The runs we did get on were ok, icy in large patches but skiable, however not recommended for beginners as the numbers on the slopes were high due to the closure of most runs. Two of us rented gear at a very good price but my friend had a pole stolen from outside a bar and had to pay the price of a new pole on returning his gear. We mentioned this to our taxi driver on the way home and he said that the rental shops send out staff to pinch back gear so that they can charge for ‘missing’ gear.
During our time there we found the locals to be mixed, some were friendly enough, as long as you were drinking their beer and eating their food, but many were hostile. The resort doesn’t have the nicest atmosphere, and unfortunately on our last night we were jumped outside a bar by six men and all beaten up. Sitting in the back of an ambulance waiting for my friend to be treated for a head injury having hit his head on the ground, we literally couldn’t have dreamt up a worse holiday. When I asked for a policeman, I was told ‘no police tonight, maybe tomorrow or next day’. I will never return to Bulgaria, at least not until it is in the EU and not run by crooks.
I am not normally one to write damning internet reviews but I really feel it is my duty to let others know of our experience. Despite continually getting ripped-off, we were all trying to have a good time, but enough is enough and it must be said Borovets is without doubt the worst run resort I have been to. Save your money up and go somewhere in central Europe.
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This is not the first report like this I have read regarding Borovets.
What I really want to know is this: Is this what we should expect when we go to Bulgaria? Are cases like that above few and far between or are they commonplace?
Cheers in advance.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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A chap from work just got back, went with his girlfriend, and said that he had a great time - wants to go back next year. He did say the snow was pretty dire, though.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The place is owned/run by Bulgarian mafia and I doubt it being in the EU would change that.
Another friend has a place there but just rents it as he doesn't want to go back. The rental income is next to nothing by the time the agency fees and charges are taken. He would sell it, if he could, but the estate agents only plug the new build properties... as this is what they are told to do. Another friend went two years ago and whilst he enjoyed the town, they only skied on the first day. The snow was so bad they didn't bother after that. They went to a strip club one night but left quickly as they were instantly surrounded by girls wanting them to buy champagne at £150 a bottle. He said he didn't get the feeling that the girls were there of their own free will.
If it was the only place I could afford to go to, I would rather miss a year and save for a holiday where snow was reasonably sure and I was unlikely to get mugged, beaten up, constantly ripped off.
Andorra is a much better bet for a budget trip. Good nightlife, safe and the people are friendly. Plus the supermarkets sell everything you need if your are self catering.
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I've been to Borovets several times. No trouble whatsoever despite wandering around at all hours.
The resort has been unlucky with snow this year but that is apparently changing as we speak.
As for lift passes: I've skied in Austria and actually been on the mountain with a group when the powers that be have decided to shut down operations due to conditions. It can happen anywhere but here there may be an obvious advantage to travelling with a brit tour company.
Borovets is a ski resort, not a shopping mecca. If you want shopping, try Samokov or Sofia. Most people who visit borovets have a good time, but there are always those who expect more.
It is not Zermatt, St Moritz or Gstaad. and even in those places, kit gets stolen. Usually skis.
Had my own kit in Borovets every visit. Never a problem with any of it going missing. Once had some sticks (Poles) stolen while in Scotland though.
With an open mind and with your group, you'll have a good time.
Try the discussion board on Bulgariaski.com. Look for Kas and Bobby. They may well be able to put your mind at rest.
Regards,
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Snowshark, Sorry about the poles, if you want them back they are in my garden shed!
PSG
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Thanks for the feedback, guys.
Snowshark, I have been reading the Bulgariaski discussion board and it does seem like Kas and Bobby are lovely people but I am reluctant to ask people who have a vested interest in a resort about the negative aspects of it. I'm not saying that I'm going to be lied to but I don't believe that someone who owns or runs a business in the resort would give me an answer like "Don't come here - the skiing's crap and you're likely to get robbed", even if that were true (I'm not saying that this is the case, just giving an example). I was hoping for independant opinions from people who had travelled to Borovets and skied there. Going back to my original post, the guy who wrote it may have had an unrealistic set of expectations of the resort which may have lead him to post an unfavourable review - for all I know, he may have been drunk and lairy and may even have started the fight that got him and his mates filled-in, who knows? What are your views of the place? Do you have links with Borovets?
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SnowCookie, I smell a rat with that review - it just doesn't quite read quite right.
2 groups of friends of mine have been and while they tired of it's limitations there was no suggestion of it being dangerous or threatening.
The no-reund policy sounds like it needs checking out though if conditions are poor as the skiing is half an hour up in a gondola and so you have no idea what it's going to be like until you get there
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Wotcha gonna do if you've already booked and paid? Ask your insurance company to pay up because you've been scared off by some reviews on tinternet?
Sounds like even if the snow's poor you'll at least get an interesting cultural experience (& beating up visitors unprovoked sounds like poor business even for mob heavies). The rental scam is one which seems to exist across Europe.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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red 27, To be fair, you'd have to be pretty unlucky to suffer all that in one trip and I have heard that several families make regular return trips. I just wanted to know if the iffy reviews I had read were likely to be the product of sour grapes or genuine stories of woe in a resort full of thugs.
I'll make sure to post my experiences in Borovets and I PROMISE (because I'm good like that) that I'll give it a fair review. Just hope I don't have to post it with broken fingers!
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fatbob, Nope, I just need to know if I need to stuff a 9-iron in my ski bag or not.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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SnowCookie, Hi, No I don't have any vested interests or links in Borovets other than I've skied there a number of times over the years.
On the whole, despite a limited ski area, (in region of 50km) most tourists find plenty do do there on and off the slopes. The snow cannon usae has grown immensely since my last visit 2 years ago. If you take group lessons and as a group you're not ahppy with the instructor - say so.
Some schools have vested interests in certain bars and refreshment stops but it doesn't mean you have to use them.
Tell the ski school what you expect and I expect they will put you with the best instructor available to suit your needs (again assuming ski school is your goal.)
There are all sorts of bars, hotels, cafe's and restaurants. Some call the place cheap and cheerful (at the side of other mainstream euro resorts such as Mayrhofen) It has a certain rustic (even tired) charm that you either like or don't. Change doesn't appear to come quickly to Borovets.
Last time I was there: Gypsy babushka's still stood at the side of the road all day with their knitted wares on view for sale. Donkey taxis from the end of yastravets to to the village (Horse and cart) for a small charge.
Little streetside food vendors. Open roasts outside and Shlashliks cooking over open fires. (Hopefully eu regs may not encompass places like borovets quite so quickly as other places.)
And of course cheap but highly quaffable booze. If the beer companies are anything like that of Romania, they are now probably owned by the likes of Miller. The lager is fine. They also have a cheaper version of Ouzo (Mastika) which is stronger and served in larger measures.
Also known as Bulgarian Viagra. Why I do not know.
Regards,
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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gilleski, In your shed? Thought they were being used to prop it up. Are you getting a new shed?
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| Snowshark wrote: |
Last time I was there: Gypsy babushka's still stood at the side of the road all day with their knitted wares on view for sale. Donkey taxis from the end of yastravets to to the village (Horse and cart) for a small charge.
Little streetside food vendors. Open roasts outside and Shlashliks cooking over open fires. (Hopefully eu regs may not encompass places like borovets quite so quickly as other places.) |
It sounds like Slough.
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You know it makes sense.
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You pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Its not as bad as the inital post makes out, so your unlikley to get mugged. The skiing is very limited, but am guessing you knew that prior to booking the holiday?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Snowshark is a Bulgarian mafia boss and I claim my £5.
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Poster: A snowHead
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SnowCookie,
Being in the EU won't help as they have been a member for a few years already.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| fatbob wrote: |
Sounds like even if the snow's poor you'll at least get an interesting cultural experience (& beating up visitors unprovoked sounds like poor business even for mob heavies). |
I'd be surprised if that happens. I went there a few years ago and once I had adjusted to the environment I felt safe wandering around the resort at night, even when alone sometimes.
Any one who can cope with exposure to all walks of life in the biggest UK cities shouldn't be shocked by anything there*. The people who run the place obviously have a financial reason to keep the place safe. I've seen Amsterdam documentaries on TV and the situation in Borovets is far more discreet, there are no freebie window displays.
As fatbob ses, it is,IMO also, an interesting cultural experience. The police in resort carry hand guns and the sliding doors of the biggest hotel, the Rila, had a 'no guns' sign :double take:
IMO it's well worth doing the TO Sofia trip on check out day, cost about £25-35 IIRC, even if they're profittering because you've already paid for the transfer to Sofia airport.
Fascinating to experience the atmosphere of a place under former communist rulers and seeing massive stone work communist style government buildings plus the Alexandra Nevski Cathederal and a few other very ornate Russian Orthodox Churches in the city centre.
* Women or families with young kids may understandably feel different. Having said that I saw plenty of young kids and parents enjoying themselves.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks for all the info, guys. I am heading into this with an open mind and I am aware that the pistes are comparatively limited - as someone alluded to earlier, you get what you pay for. I was just getting a wee bit apprehensive because of the apparent negative feedback and wanted to get some informed opinions on the subject. Consensus seems to be that it's not all that bad and realistic expectations are what's required when traveling to a place like Borovets. Thanks again.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The pass refund is probably the same as everywhere else, but a bit more honest. Val Nord (Andorra) will give you a refund if more than 50% of the lifts are closed for more than 50% of a day. Last time we were there, there was so much snow they only opened one very short lift, with only a short green to ski. All the other lifts were closed, but as they had opened 1 lift for 100% of the day, there was no refund. This is just p155ing about with semantics and statistics.
My mechanic goes to Borovets every year. He is loaded, so he doesn't go there because of budget restraints. It must have something going for it..... (could be the strip clubs though)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm off to Bansko in 2 weeks time - looking forward to it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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SnowCookie, I went to Borovets 4 years ago, with it being my first foreign ski holiday. Prior to that, I'd only had a long weekend in Aviemore, so at the time I was actually really impressed.
Since then, I've been to Soll, Zermatt and Meribel, and with something to now compare it against, I'll admit that it's somewhat 'rough and ready'. But the good news is, I'd say it's 'rough and ready' in a good way.
I really liked the resort, has a very rustic charm, and actually looks quite nice in a traditional way. Even although we went HB, we ate out most nights (ridiculously cheap), and didn't have a bad meal the entire week. So, it's not exactly 'Michelin-star' standard, but if you like basic, good, honest food, you'll be fine. The nightlife was also really good, quite a few nice bars, couple of karaoke places (which were a good laugh), and a few decent nightclubs. So yeh, there were strip-clubs, but if you just avoid them it's not a problem (after all, Ischgl's got strip-clubs, doesn't put people off going there).
To put your mind at ease, I didn't see one bit of trouble all week, and everybody seemed to be friendly enough (locals and tourists).
Only really used the supermarkets for beer and wine, so can't really comment on the 'buying food' situation (the local beer 'Zagorka' is really nice, as is the local wines).
To second what Snowshark, said, there a lot of gypsy-type shops and stalls which sell some really nice handmade stuff (if that's your cup of tea), as well as little mountain huts on the slopes, selling barbecue sausages and burgers which were nice.
Regarding lack of skiing, can't really comment on that, as the place had good snow when we were there. I found the skiing good though, quite a few nice tree-lined red runs, and a nice big long blue run all the way from top to bottom. Also had some good blue runs at the top, with a nice 'high altitude' feel about them.
As somebodies already said, it's no Zermatt, but if you're happy to just go with the flow, you'll have a good time.
I always take bad reviews such as the above, with a large pinch of salt. If it's genuine, then it just sounds like he was extremely unlucky.
If you want to have a look, I've got a few photos from the Borovets holiday on my Flickr page (link below)
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| SnowCookie wrote: |
| Thanks for all the info, guys. I am heading into this with an open mind and I am aware that the pistes are comparatively limited - as someone alluded to earlier, you get what you pay for. I was just getting a wee bit apprehensive because of the apparent negative feedback and wanted to get some informed opinions on the subject. Consensus seems to be that it's not all that bad and realistic expectations are what's required when traveling to a place like Borovets. Thanks again. |
Don't worry cookie I'll look after you!
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We went to Borovets in 1991. Despite having a gun pointed at me twice during the week, it was a pretty good holiday 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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SnowCookie, we went back to Borovets three times but it was about 8 years ago... Also went to Bansko and Pamporovo...
Bulgaria's not anything like France, Austria or Switzerland but usually about a third of the cost.
We had some great snow and some good skiing, but we were beginners and low experience... We also had some good nights out in Pete's Bar, Buzz bar, and the Happy Duck.
Once we saw some ladies in high heels, that would be rubbish in snow, with minders in one of the large hotel bars, think it was the Rila, but there was never any outrageous behavior.
One year, one of our group had their hotel room robbed but they did leave the door unlocked when they were in the bath...
Three weeks ago we were in Saalbach and some people wrote reviews on trip-advisor that you would have sworn was a different hotel, due to their point of view...
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| Quote: |
Bulgaria's not anything like France, Austria or Switzerland but usually about a third of the cost.
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Oh, really??????
SO if you can get in Austria a BB+ski pass deal for under 250 euros per person per week, then I guess you're paying in Bulgaria 70-80 euros per week, right?
Bulgaria's only cheap if you don't know how to book trips to Austria
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| sugardaddy wrote: |
| Quote: |
Bulgaria's not anything like France, Austria or Switzerland but usually about a third of the cost.
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Oh, really??????
SO if you can get in Austria a BB+ski pass deal for under 250 euros per person per week, then I guess you're paying in Bulgaria 70-80 euros per week, right?
Bulgaria's only cheap if you don't know how to book trips to Austria |
quoted for oddness!
Haven't been to borovets but have been around and about in bulgaria - pre and post skiing  . I liked the place, the madness, the culture, the humour and the sheer hell of it. sort of fell out with it after european union membership (which seems to have confused the very nature of the country) and the western european invasion for the cheap (utter crap) holiday developments & diabolical construction. looking at the locals in touristy areas in the last few years is just very uncomfortable. in bansko, a local resident sat and just declared to us 'bansko has lost it's manners' when talking about the changes the additional tourism plans had made. The locals being, mostly, dragged into the belief that they could do what they want because they were part of a valuable resource makes for some ugly attitudes.
The poverty is very real & you may be ripped off if someone thinks to take the opportunity (some people's whole world is to look for those opportunities), not because the country is rife with scoundrels but because someone thinks they can. as is true of anywhere.
I very like bulgaria, hope you enjoy yourself
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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kittya, wrote
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sugardaddy wrote:
Quote:
Bulgaria's not anything like France, Austria or Switzerland but usually about a third of the cost.
Oh, really??????
SO if you can get in Austria a BB+ski pass deal for under 250 euros per person per week, then I guess you're paying in Bulgaria 70-80 euros per week, right?
Bulgaria's only cheap if you don't know how to book trips to Austria
quoted for oddness!
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Have you ever looked at off peak deals (trough the local tourist bureau, not UK tour ops) in smaller (and still much bigger that any Bulgarian resort, skiing wise) Austrian villages? If the regular prices for ski pass are about 180 euros, and for b+b accom about 25 euros per night per person, then the price without any deals is 350 euros per week. And you can find fantastic deals, if you do your research and stay away from "big name resorts".
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| sugardaddy wrote: |
| Quote: |
Bulgaria's not anything like France, Austria or Switzerland but usually about a third of the cost.
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Oh, really??????
SO if you can get in Austria a BB+ski pass deal for under 250 euros per person per week, then I guess you're paying in Bulgaria 70-80 euros per week, right?
Bulgaria's only cheap if you don't know how to book trips to Austria |
I meant more about the 3v €6 beer, Val T €15 French onion soup for lunch and €24 steak and chips...
But when you consider that full ski pack of Lift pass, kit hire and a full week ski instruction of 4 hrs per per for 6 days in Bulgaria for £140, and last week the lift pass in Saalbach was €195 and ski hire €75 and that's with no instruction... yes...
And then you get the comments from people that haven't been to Bulgaria... How can they comment?
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You know it makes sense.
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We went to Boro the New Year before last and had a good time.
This was the review I wrote following the trip....
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=1428527&highlight=#1428527
Having been to Austria this year where the prices for lift passes, eating and drinking were all reasonable I would not go back to Bulgaria. Don't be scared of Boro, go with an open ind and you'll be fine.
Pete
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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A group of 5 of us went to borovets at the beginning of January, we had a great time. The only downsides for me, it was like blackpool with snow. There are bar touts everywhere.
We were staying at iglika palace (which was ok for what we needed. Sleep and Food) and had to walk up the resort centre road. Every bar had a tout, hassling you to come for a drink, even though it was 8.30 in the morning and i had boots on a skis over my shoulder! A couple of them got ratty when we said "maybe later" saying "yeah yeah yeah, maybe later english!!" By the time you get to the slopes, your sick of em!
The gear was ok, none of the boots i had were comfortable, my poles were bent and wouldnt change for straight ones. Ive since bought my own boots though
Apart from that we had a great time. It didnt snow once at the bottom while we were there, apart from our last night which is typical!
I noticed they pisted the sloped at night, just after night skiing, which made them deadly in the morning as temperatures would be around -5 and it froze solid. One morning the main rila slope was like an ice rink, you couldnt even stick your pole in it!
We spent most of our time up on the gondala runs as that had fresh powder the last few days which was great, but only 2 of the 4 runs were open, even though they had fresh snow!
We have booked to go to austria at the start of march, we got a cracking deal and its worked out less than borovets!
I dont think we would go again, but had a good time and got the most of the snow we had
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