 Poster: A snowHead
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http://www.skiracing.com/?q=node/9375
I think she has made the right decision, when it´s not going right then go back, re evaluate and come back fresh in mind and body. What many people don´t realise is how psychological ski racing is. I am sure she will get slated for doing this, but I bet when she comes back in Are she´s way back up in the mix.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Pregnant!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skidmarks, interesting theory, I hadn´t thought of that! Maybe????
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kooky, she should have done that after the first training when she realised that her concussion was worse that she and her doctors thought. All this kerfuffle about the "dangerous" pistes would have been avoided and she would still be as highly respected for the very great skier she is!
As it is her little "outburst" on FB has lost her a lot of support and made her look/sound like a whinger. As it is now she is involved in a damage limitation exercise as well 
I hope she is back in form soon as she really is an exciting and talented skier.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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wasn't just FB thought which makes her moment of maddness excuse sound hollow, as I watched her moan about it on ZDF sportshau and SF1 aswell..
shes not really in contention for the technical events, so makes sense to step out and recover and concentrate on the remaining world cup events... riesch would probably benefit from that aswell judging by the cough shes still got. Though she has a title to defend and a home crowd to please.
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papasmurf, Yep I saw that interview as well - not treated too sympathetically by the German press for a change. normally she is idolised because she not only speaks good German, she has an clear Tirol-accent.
I think that Riesch would have to be in the grave to stop her from racing this week! It was an indication of how bad Rebensburg was that she was a complete no-show in the first week. I hope she has had time to fully recover for the GS, but would not be surprised if she does not perform to expectations.
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To be honest, I don't think her "complaining" was all that wrong. Course on beginning was dangerous, especially for women. It was too much in my mind. But thing is noone dares to say this. Kostelic and Vonn are pretty much only ones who dare to say it out loud. When you hang a bit more with coaches and service guys, you hear everyone were complaining, but publicly noone said anything. I don't know why, but it was so. So maybe because of this, people might actually think she was complaining because she was not fit or something, and most likely she lost few fans because of this, but in reality she did right thing. If course wouldn't be too icy, they wouldn't send pisten bullies out on same evening, because I doubt they sent them out just because of her complaining.
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primoz, interesting, to hear that from someone right at the centre of things. Given that serious injuries - even deaths  are more common in ski racing than many other sports, maybe there really is a need for some rethinking. Are there any other mainstream sports where to be truly in contention you have to run such high risks?
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primoz, Thanks for the insight. I must admit from a purely outsiders point of view it looked to me as if the piste at the start of the week was so icy and snow coverage so limited that the bumps were exaggerated because it so closely followed the terrain beneath. As the week went on it softened so badly and then hardened again such that it could be smoothed somewthat but not at all great conditions for doing 140kph, fair play to Muncuso, Goergl etc for giving it 100%, maybe Vonn just took a more long term view and decided she'd have a few more seasons with all that lovely Red Bull sponsorship rather than potentially risking her neck, even though its World Championships! Total respect in that regard. Even Didier Cuche appeared to back off somewhat, and Bode Miller was not himself either, cant be coincidence can it? Think the lesson here is to keep the resort high rather than going for maximum kudos with the sponsors, it needs to high up in say Arlberg, Espace Killy, Verbier etc at 2000m+ IMO not scratching about at 1300m above sea level top station.
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Maybe they're told not to say anything by their federations, for instance the head of Swiss ski was saying that WM tracks should be much harder then WC ones, so maybe they are under pressure not to disagree, though there were plenty of skiers on the TV saying its hard but not as bad as others are making out.
what is more hard to understand though is that awful song with lizzy Görgl
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Markymark29, think the start gate is at around 1600m, plus 3 weeks ago it had cracking snow, can't account for the weather and plenty of other resorts haven't got ideal conditions and some of the WC races haven't been on ideal conditions either this year.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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pam w,
| Quote: |
| Given that serious injuries - even deaths Sad are more common in ski racing than many other sports, maybe there really is a need for some rethinking. |
That is just bovine excrement! Where are the actual statistics to back that up - motor racing is way more deadly and football/rugby have some of the highest PUBLISHED statistics for injuries. One of the highest rank sports for deadly injuries is cricket - go figure!
I think a great deal has been made of this just for the sake of having something to say by people who have no real knowledge. I am interested in Primoz's comments as he was/is actually there
MarkyMark29 - they would have had the same problems in any resort this year. At least it is being run, just the usual suspects aren't necessarily winning! The relative height of the resort is not a real criteria, otherwise it would never have been considered for this level of cmpetition. What comments are we going to get for Sochi I wonder?
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papasmurf, Yeah, OK 1300 vs 1600m fair point - but surely its a question of weighing up the pro's vs cons, the risk is bound to be more pronounced with lower resorts. I know this year is exceptionally poor in most places, that said maybe its better to have a high resort to be sure of decent snow is my view. I bet Piste OK down to La Daille and/ or Face de Bellevarde for example are in better condition and thus more fit for purpose is all I'm saying. If they want the big skiers to give their best these guys need to be given a quality track to schlep down IMO.
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You know it makes sense.
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Samerberg Sue, Just googled Sochi - at least Courchevel 1850 will be quiet those weeks maybe, better give it a try again in 2014!! 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Samerberg Sue can you give me a single incident of an international rugby, football or cricket player suffering a fatal injury whilst playing or training?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
That is just bovine excrement!
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do you have to be quite so aggressive? Not to mention inaccurate. Of course there are more deaths and serious injuries in top level ski racing than in many other sports (measured the only way it makes sense - per competitor/year. Of course there are more injuries in rugby. So what?) I didn't claim ski racing was amongst the most dangerous sports - but it does happen to be the only one where I've seen them happening (on TV, glad to say I've not actually seen it happen in the flesh) and very horrible it was.
There is only a tiny handful of men and women competing at WC level in ski racing - and given that I can't watch much on the TV, as I don't have any "paid" sport channels I remain of the view that it is a dangerous and risky sport, where to be in contention you have to take a higher risk of death or injury than in many sports. Commentators often comment that a competitor has lost at least one entire season to injury. And I believe it is also true that ex-mogul skiers have very high levels of arthritis at a young age. Or is that BS too?
And no need to be so elitest either. Just because most of us don't watch ski racing on the hill, and aren't on first name terms with the right people doesn't mean we can't be legitimately interested. I'm sure there are some special racing fora where only the right sort of people participate.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have a book full of pointless trivia at home (I love books like this) and one of the facts it lists is that in 2008 the most deadly sport/pastime for European citizens was fishing.
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| Dr John wrote: |
| http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jul/05/cricket-umpire-dies-swansea |
| Quote: |
| The game between Swansea and Llangennech, in Division One of the Antur Insurance South Wales association, was abandoned |
I thought we were talking about the ultimate elite level?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Frosty the Snowman, you are. I've taken a side road into tragi-comedy.
But on a serious note. Rugby is the most dangerous team game in the world, if measured by number of injuries per competitor (at any level, I believe). I'm a bit bemused at to where SS get's her cricket stats from though. I'd be confident in saying that WC skiing was one of, if not the, most dangerous individual sports if using the same injury/competitor ratio.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Tue 15-02-11 14:43; edited 1 time in total
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Samerberg Sue,
| Quote: |
| That is just bovine excrement! |
um well I have personally watched the deaths of Ulli Maier ( on the Garmisch Kandahar ) and Gernot Reinstadler ( in Wengen ), have watched Matthias Lanzinger lose his leg in Norway, have seen numerous people knock themselves senseless on the Streif; for Hans Grugger it is questionable whether he will ever return to his former self, having suffered damage to his brain. I have watched Brian Stemmle damn near tear himself in half on the Steilhang in Kitz...
So far watching F1 I have only ever seen one person actually kill themselves live on TV. So I don't think that what pam said was complete bovine excrement actually!
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Scott MacCartney, TJLanning, Dani Albrecht........there is a very long list unfortunately. The amount of children(aged between 12- 18 ) in my son´s school(ski boarding school) with torn ligaments, broken bones and seriously damaged knees at such a young age is very scary. I didn´t allow my son to compete in DH this year, his first FIS year as he is only 1m60 and weighs in at 50 kg, to expect him to handle the min lenght ski( 2m 10 I think??? ) would have been asking for trouble.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Tue 15-02-11 14:50; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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statistics and lies, how many FIS ski racers are there compared to anglers........umm not many.
Death and or serious injury in certain top level sports will always happen, all we can hope is that the governing bodies in conjunction with the competitors do every thing possible to mitigate this. For instance F1 racing is massively safer than it used to be due to this kind of proactive approach.
I'm sure someone will counter that they know the risks, you change the nature of the sport etc etc. Not an argument that holds much truck with me I'm afraid.
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| Dr John wrote: |
Frosty the Snowman, you are. I've taken a side road into tragi-comedy.
But on a serious note. Rugby is the most dangerous team game in the world, if measured by number of injuries per competitor (at any level, I believe). I'm a bit bemused at to where SS get's her cricket stats from though. I'd be confident in saying that WC skiing was one of, if not the, most dangerous individual sports if using the same injury/competitor ratio. |
I know more people that have been under the knife for skiing than for rugby...... anfd I know more rugby players than skiers. It depends what level of injury we are discussing
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Good for her! I'm glad she's pulled out. I like her and I'd like to see her race another day. She said that her concentration wasn't 100%. She could blot out other injuries but when your brain isn't working that's different. On that terrain it's just madness to risk it if you feel like that. She is a young, married woman with her whole life (and probably pregnancies!) ahead of her. Why risk that? Who cares that some people think she's whinging? She has achieved more now than most pro skiers do in a lifetime. And I think she's got more sense than most. Give her a break!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Frosty the Snowman, I think it's injuries that cause the player to leave the field, or cause the player to miss subsequent games. So concussions, sprains, dead-legs, fractures etc all come into play.
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Dr John, It was quoted ad infinitum ad nauseum when I was teaching sports in the UK - never actually came across it - probably due to unfit old codgers flaking out with heart attacks rather than anything else - on a pure sports basis (not elite or any other level) maybe bowls has the highest incidence of fatalities!
I was not being aggressive, but I did want to get round the profanity filter and that was the only term I could reasonably come up with. I object most strongly to unnecessary and unimformed sensationalism - leave that to the Daily Rant and its ilk!
Steilhang, I too witnessed Uli's death and the aftermath as she was close family to a very good friend of mine. Her daughter was only 4 years old at the time. I also remember Gernot's horrible death in Wengen, Eurosport stopped braodcasting training runs as a result of that one. Both of those tragedies led to massive improvements in safety at both venues and also across the board at the elite level of racing. But it is an elite level and accidents do occur, however tragic.
Motor racing is more fatal - 27 deaths in Formula 1 alone between 1954 and 1994, and that is not including the spectators who were also killed when some of the accidents occurred. In ski racing there have only been 11 fatalities associated with actual competition/training since 1909 - one of the last being the horrible accident that killed Regine Cavagnoud in 2001 while training for the opening Sölden GS race (she was killed on the Pitztal glacier if you remember).
There are some horrible accidents in other sports as well, for example there are probably more young people in wheelchairs as a result of bad reffing in rugby (collapsed scrums) or poor tackling techniques than as a result of skiing accidents. Competative horse riding is also dangerous to both horses and riders - will we get the same outcry during the Grand National or the Cheltenham Gold Cup meetings? No of course not!
This is not the Olympics where skiers from nations with no Alpine tradition can and do take part, this is the World Championships and is only for the elite of the elite. The courses should match up to that standard, but nobody can prevent accidents and they are doing as much as possible to eliminate them while still providing a suitably challenging course.
Taking cheap shots from the outside does nobody any favours - we are simply fans, not racers or coaches with actual experience of the situations and courses. Primoz is the closest, but even he admits that it is not his milieu. He was a World Cup cross country skier I believe!
I really can't see what all the fuss is about, Vonn was not in the right frame of mind due to her severe concussion. She should have had an automatic ban from competing for a set number of days as they do in other sports where concussion is seen as a risk factor. Had she taken the first week off to recover we would not be seeing all this kerfuffle now. And she would still have been a genuine contender to take the GS title if not the slalom.
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You know it makes sense.
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Samerberg Sue, I must congratulate you for winding up the two least wind-up-able people on this forum. Quite an achievement.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Hurtle, I'll take that as a compliment then shall I
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Poster: A snowHead
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ladies and gentlemen.........snowpatrol has entered the building
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Personally I wouldn't agree skiing is all that dangerous. If you consider these guys do 130 or 140km/h in lycra and helmet as only protection, and then look to number of (serious) injuries, things are not all that bad. But even just one injury is too much, especially if it can be avoided.
As far as slope on beginning of WCH goes, weather didn't play much of role. Using whole lot of balken is one thing, pouring tons of water on top, is other thing. With balken you get hard or even icy snow deep down, but this snow has quite lot of grip even if worse cases. But when you pour water over, and things freeze up, you get pure ice, like it was now.
I also agree WCH and Olympics courses should be harder then WC courses. These events are once every 2 or 4 years, and best one should win. If you put easy glide course for downhill, you have lot of chances someone of not really top skiers will win. Sure he or she would be bet on that course, but that's not the point. But they should still be skiable, since making courses, where top athletes look like they wouldn't know how to ski, is not best commercial for sport.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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primoz, please excuse my ignorance, but what's "balken". Is it what I have seen them sometimes throwing on the race course at the WM and WC races? I always thought that was salt, which causes the snow to melt and then re-freeze
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Samerberg Sue, I presumed, as the thread is about the best skier In the world, that this thread was about elite level participants.
Even if it isn't then most of what you say is shoite.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Samerberg Sue, As you dislike uninformed comments i thought i would point out this is rather uninformed.
| Quote: |
This is not the Olympics where skiers from nations with no Alpine tradition can and do take part, this is the World Championships and is only for the elite of the elite
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This is not really true. There are small nations taking part and athletes ranked outside the top 1000 in the world.
As far as injuries go i would say it is fairly high having had 3 knee operations with my 4th in a couple of weeks time at 23. Most my team mates have also gone under the knife at some point. I would say you are fairly lucky if you race and escape without any  but as Primoz says considering the sport it could be worse.
| Quote: |
But they should still be skiable, since making courses, where top athletes look like they wouldn't know how to ski, is not best commercial for sport
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Fully agree with this. We have had the same problem with skicross the last few years in st johann Austria. Fortunately this season the Austrian federation stopped them from injecting the track as even Daron Rahlves looked like bambi on ice and there where so many season ending injuries.
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jjc, where we train on they not only inject the pistes with water, there is also new technology where the race piste is compounded by a kind of pnuematic drill, not unlike that which makes an ice rink. I really think this is no way forward for the athletes , couple this with the new tech in material , how much can a human body cope with?There surely must come a point where it is physically impossible to go faster?
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But the podiums have been full of the top class skiers - you make it less so, and you get journeymen (sorry ladies) winning - i must admit i have been HUGELY impressed by teh focus and commitment of the top skiers, goergl (who i have always had a weird crush on !) and Innerhofer (who i havenet) in particular - these WCs should go down as a particualrly high standard, and the pair of them haev probably ensured their place in the skiing record books as something a little bit special
i think Goergl has got another chance at least in GS, not sure what INnerhofer could do now on the shorter skis, but given his motivation i'd be interested in an outside bet for the slalom (only joking)
PS Anyone know how the Team event on Wed works?
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| Steilhang wrote: |
Samerberg Sue,
| Quote: |
| That is just bovine excrement! |
um well I have personally watched the deaths of Ulli Maier ( on the Garmisch Kandahar ) and Gernot Reinstadler ( in Wengen ), have watched Matthias Lanzinger lose his leg in Norway, have seen numerous people knock themselves senseless on the Streif; for Hans Grugger it is questionable whether he will ever return to his former self, having suffered damage to his brain. I have watched Brian Stemmle damn near tear himself in half on the Steilhang in Kitz...
So far watching F1 I have only ever seen one person actually kill themselves live on TV. So I don't think that what pam said was complete bovine excrement actually! |
i think the current difference is that F1 used to be dangerous and exciting. see youtube F1 hereoes vid. however now F1 is quite anticeptic. however ski racing is still a slab of ice and a human body.
to put it in perspective my son will watch ski racing (with a slight push) as it can be exciting. but for him the iea of watching F1 is just not going to happen
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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mugen, Have him watch Moto GP, now THAT'S exciting!! 46 V 99...............
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