 Poster: A snowHead
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Having dabbled a bit off piste from time to time with limited success I reckon its time to crack it properly (or it will be when some proper weather returns) and do a full weeks course. I have a couple of others showing some interest but if past history is anything to go by this will come to nothing and it'll be a solo trip.
There seem to be plenty of companies offering full guided weeks with instruction at beginner off piste level, do any snowheads have personal experience of any, good or bad.
Is a full week too much, should I look for a shorter course?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rich, we've offered off-piste courses from our chalet in La Rosiere, the courses are provided by ESF instructors/guides, we also offer ski-randonee. To be cost effective you really need to have a minimum of 4 participants, that helps spread the cost of the guides daily rate. If you can get you mates along, then we can offer you a very good deal, with excellent instruction. We paln to hold a mountain awareness course this season, which will include avalanche training, using skins etc, as an introduction to ski touring. PM me for more information if this is of interest.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've done the "piste to powder" introduction to off piste day in St Anton. It was really good, there hadn't been snow for a while when we were there and the guide managed to find us somewhere to make fresh tracks, that was suitable for our abilities.
One thing that I would say, is that if you're new to off-piste it can be exhausting. Unless you are particularly fit then one or two days in a week should be enough to get you started. Admittedly when I did my day conditions were quite hard, but still about half the group ended up going home at lunch time, and this was on easier slopes.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Have a look at the skiclub GB off piste courses.Did a beginner one in Flaine and it was excellent.Full week of training and plenty of powder to practice on.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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p.s I didn't think that a week was too much-but it is obviously more tiring than your usual week.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Another shameless plug for http://www.skimountaineering.com/.
Agree with Krammer though - try a couple of days first if you're not very fit. But he does get busy so best to book a few weeks before.
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As an added bonus, if the ladies in our group were anything to go by, then any ladies in your group will particularly appreciate Thomas, one of the piste to powder/ski mountaineering guides. The girls assured me that he was one of the best looking men that they had ever met in their lives.
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I can also vouch for the SCGB courses in Flaine. And Yann seems to have a similar effect on the ladies (think Robert Redford, about 20 years younger) - although whether being weak at the knees all week is ideal conditioning for an off-piste course is something I really couldn't comment on. I would certainly go for a full week course (gives you time to learn, practice and get the most obvious errors corrected), but make sure you've done some leg-strength training first.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I started to get to grips with off-piste on a Freshtracks (before it became part of the SCGB) week at Flaine. I was excellent. Subsequent SCGB training holidays have been excellent - so I guess the beginner off-piste ones are, too.
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How competent would you have to be to do one of these courses?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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laundryman, 
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To do the Piste to Powder course you need to be making confident turns on St Anton's red runs. As a personal addition I would suggest that you'll struggle off-piste until you are carving your turns properly rather than skidding them.
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You know it makes sense.
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The thing about off-piste is that it is easy in good conditions and gets harder the poorer the snow.
You could start with your mates booking a guide/instructor from the local office when the snow arrives.
If they were anything like mine I had to do all the chasing but they love me for it now
If you can ski ok it is just a case of doing and doing it. And don't avoid the bad conditions too much
as you are just as likley to get that when you go off-track.
Off-piste is not all fresh snow...!!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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I agree with Kramer about how tiring it is. I started off piste with some mates on a 3 day private guiding/course. Conditions were deep and heavy. No light stuff. No spring stuff. I was quite fit but we were completely spent at the end of each day. No going out in the evening. Luckily we were in a chalet so we didn't need to!
What level? I don't think you need quite be a fall-line mogul skier, but that you need to know you're skiing reasonably on all pistes ie decent control, varied turns and something in reserve.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've done several Snoworks courses, although not their off-piste weeks. They get nothing but praise from me. I did a review of a race training course for the 'Bend ze knees' section - a quick search should find it. If you want to stay in the same accommodation as fellow classmates (and instructors) Snoworks does this.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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GrahamN wrote
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make sure you've done some leg-strength training first.
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what's the best way of strengthening legs to prepare them for this kind of challenge?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'd second the recommendation for Snoworks. I did the Off Piste Backcountry week in St Anton this year, as a solo. All the group stayed in the same accomodation, they provided all the saftey equip, and catered for all abilities, giving the option to move up or down groups as appropriate. Read my review of my week by searching in the Recommendation section in Bend Z Knees.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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pam w,
To prep for any type of skiing you could try leg lifts I do 200 a day per leg with a 4 lb weight and I find that sets the tone for
leg strenght. THis should be your start off point and then I would do lunges and cycling, Running jars the knees too much unless you are used to it
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David, I can't seem to PM you, but I'm very interested in getting details about your proposed mountain awareness course
cheers,
Greg
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pam w, if you're a member of a gym, try spin classes. they are very good for cardio-vascular fitness and the resistance strenthens the legs quite well too.
my top tip, if you're doing lots of work on your quadriceps, don't overlook hamstrings - you need to keep it all in balance
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pam w, what JT said.
I think the main difference between off- and on-piste skiing is that you have do a huge amount more reacting to what the snow throws at you, which means a lot more absorbing and extending, along with a lot more jumping to make turns in deep heavy snow. So anything that improves your thigh and hamstring strength has to be good.
While I'm not particularly athletic overall, I'm fortunate in having fairly strong legs to start with so I've not normally had to do much specific training, but I have also used a push-bike as principal means of transport for most of my life. In 2000 I changed jobs which didn't make this practical any longer and basically stopped exercising. As a result I found by the 2004 season my off-piste skiing suffered severely (while cruising the pistes seemed unaffected) - and I had two days where I lost it big time (thighs weren't strong enough to re-extend after absorbing bumps, so the only alternative was to fall gracefully into to snow).
Prior to this year I restarted cycling (in September) and found things were much better this season. I do think it's important to do it every day (or at least every other day) - I now always cycle the 4 miles each way to and from work, in to town for shopping, and the station whenever I take a train, etc.. (It also saves a fortune on petrol and parking). I've also started running (4 miles, twice a week, + another couple), which has made a big difference to hamstrings and groin muscles, which cycling doesn't do a lot for, although build up to it slowly to avoid knackering your knees. If you're more into the gym-type exercises, try lunges, lifts, squats, and I suspect step should be good too. I understand that sitting-against-the-wall exercise is not considered highly nowadays, but it always seems to hit the right muscles.
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Try Alpine Experience in Val d"Isere. You can join one of their off-piste guided groups at differenct experience levels, some of them including instruction. They also sometimes do afternoon groups on piste, to teach novice off-pisters the techniques they will need off piste. I don't know if these last are any good, but I've had many good days just skiing off piste with them.
About half the guides are British or Australian or American, including most of the founders, and they all talk to each other in English.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have had a couple of very enjoyable SCGB off piste weeks, one beginners week and one for not-quite-beginners. I have also skied a lot with Alpine Experience and highly reccommend them.
As some of the SCGB courses in Val d'Isere use the guides from Alpine Experience, this sounds like a very good option for rich to consider.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| rich wrote: |
Sorry, a bit slow getting back to the thread.
DB, Kramer, Piste to powder doesn't seem so good for me. I would prefer to be staying in the same accomodation as the group I ski with if, as I expect, I'll be on my tod. Piste to powder don't seem to accomodation packages for their courses (or they don't mention it). Have I got hthis right.
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Graham doesn't offer accomodation in St Anton. It works out better for me as I can get it much cheaper than a tour operator deal. I go on my tod each year but there's quite a lot of familiar and new faces so you're never in a billy-no-mates situation. Just arranging to ski with people I've skied with over the past few years at St Anton again for next season. Not easy to burn the candle at both ends when you are doing a proper off-piste course so a quick apres-ski drink(s) and bite to eat is normally enough for me.
Graham does offer accomodation on other destinations though, namely
Silvrettas
Haute Route - Swizterland
Ski & Sail Norway
Alaska
Himalaya
South America
further details available at
www.pistetopowder.com
graham@pistetopowder.com
PS It's worth checking out who your guide will be and how qualified he is, not every "guide" is fully qualified.
Graham has
UIAGM / IFMGA / IVBV. (International Federation Of Mountain Guides Association)
BASI Level 1. British Association Of Snow Sport Instructors National Ski Teacher
Austrian Staatliche Ski Teacher and Schi Fuehrer
French Carte Professionel (equivelance)
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Piste to Powder is Graham and 4 or 5 other guides he employs and works closely with. You would need to check if you would be getting him or one of the others. He tends to take the better skiers
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You know it makes sense.
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A development and possibly a problem, I'm not sure.
It seems a few people are showing some interest in joining me including a couple of snowboarders.
What's the general policy of these courses to boarders or mixed groups of skiers/boarders is there likely to be a problem?
DB, thanks for the response. I've done a bit of travelling for work, usually on my own have never found it a particularly pleasant. Eating on your own in a restaurant is a pretty soul destroying experience which I've done too much of already. I'd rather pay for a package and take the stress out.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| rich wrote: |
| ..What's the general policy of these courses to boarders or mixed groups of skiers/boarders is there likely to be a problem?... |
Not seen a mix on a powder course. Fist though is that traverses are easy for skiers, less so for boarders. Might affect access to areas the instructor wanted to go to.
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Poster: A snowHead
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rich, best to check with whoever you go with first. i've been on things where there is a definite policy of keeping skiers and boarders apart for precisely the reasons Nick mentioned
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Rich,
I met Graham at last years ski show, he seemed a great guy, and really knew his stuff. He was running courses in Gressoney/alagna which (if the snow is good) is a great place to go.
Don't suppose you work for a large computer company at Worton Grange, in Reading do you?
cheers,
Greg
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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If you want lessons then a mix of ski and board could well be a problem.
But why not contact Alpine Experience and Graham and ask them.
Alpine experience might put you in different groups on the snow, would this matter?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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GrahamN, as someone who has suffered physically the last two times out, ...but not the weeks before that curiously...  I think your regime sounds pretty good.
It does stand to reason that the more extensive skiing you do, it will eat into your reserves and general fitness quicker.
So, best get the bike out on the beautiful day and put a few miles in...as a start...!!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rich, I would agree with the others, not a lot of point doing an off piste day/couple of days going in a mixed group of boarders and skiers that you know because it is highly likely that boarders and skiers will be separated for precisely the reasons mentioned above. The instructors normally take boarders and skiers to different places without the traverses for boarders.
What sort of level are you on piste? How fit are you? Like the others have alluded to, I do think that an all day off piste course every day will be a bit much to start off with, but there are plenty of companies that do off piste course weeks with half day instruction rather than all day with the accomodation to book as well so you're all staying in the same place.
It doesn't matter about going on your own, loads of people do (pretty much everyone I've seen on these courses have been on their own, there are a few that go with their partner or a friend or something) and there are plenty of people to have dinner with etc because 99% of the time all the people on the course(s) stay in the same place the course company has sorted out.
Companies that do the half day off piste courses and with accomodation as well are Snoworks and Inspired to Ski that I know of, Warren Smith Ski Academy and Alpine Coaching get good reviews as well but their off piste courses are all day not half a day, good value they are mind IMV but as I say an all day every day course might be a bit much for some.
Good thing about half a day is that it allows you to give your muscles a rest properly instead of just overnight before the next day-it can be tough-particularly when you are being "changed" skiing wise by the instruction unless you're particularly fit already-and also it means free ski time with the people you meet on the course. In my experience even on a half day course most of them are glad to get on piste by time it gets to lunchtime. Oh and getting back on piste after being off piste all morning or afternoon is a breeze.
I've done an Off Piste week with Snoworks in April and enjoyed it, I've done an All Mountain course with Inspired to Ski and loved it, next Off Piste course I've got is with Inspired to Ski so you could check out both of them, and the others I mention above WSSA and AC if you think you can manage all day.
www.inspiredtoski.com
www.snoworks.co.uk
www.alpinecoaching.co.uk
www.warrensmith-skiacademy.com
Or, you could consider BASS Chamonix. They have weekend (all day) Off Piste courses in Chamonix although I think that would be quite hard going to start off with.
http://www.basschamonix.com/back.htm
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Not forgetting of course that this thread is 3 years old 
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If you can actually carve a turn on piste without skidding, the same turn will get you through almost any kind of snow off piste. Light powder is less demanding, unless it is very deep so you are floating, and will be more forgiving of a slightly skidding turn. I find the best technique in breakable crust (which is easily the most difficult snow) is to carve strongly rather than jump (and not to do short turns or anything too sudden) but I hope no guide gets you in the position of having to ski any of that your first year off piste!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yeah, I see now, me and JT didn't notice that did we! Oh well, if someone else reads this or does a search for off piste courses then they can benefit instead of rich. Loads of people do forum searches/ask about for course recommendations all the time so it won't be wasted. I wonder what rich chose to do in the end!
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FAQ
