Best technique for skiing hardpack?

A snowHead

Hi All,

Saturday just gone I came back from a week's skiing in the 3 Valleys. Anyone who has been keeping up with the weather reports will know that the sun has been blazing across all the valleys, with no fresh snow dumps for a good few weeks now. Most of the slopes were skiiable, with several closed due to ice, but naturally some slopes were a little more challenging than usual.

What occured to me while I was out there though was this: is there a preferred, more efficient technique for when you are skiing hardpack? For example, with the pistes being quite hard/icy I was finding it difficult at times getting my skis on their edges, and even when I did, maintaining them on edge was difficult. The result was quite a few skids (more so than I would have liked).

With a bit of snow, I was ok, making clean turns and leaving behind defined tracks. Of course, when skiing you're supposed to be dynamic but I did notice some others on the slope handling these conditions with comparative ease so no doubt my technique (or lack of) plays a huge part.

Any advice would be appreciated . Thanks!

A snowHead

c0Ka|Ne, sounds like your edges could do with some attention. I actually like skiing on hardpack far more than potato or really deep fresh snow. But good edges are vital.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Watching the skiing on the TV (and they are on near ice) it seems the best technique is to straightline it from top to bottom without stopping.

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Don't try to do anything quickly. Stand well balanced on your skis (not too far back, and if you use big edge angle make sure you are extremely well balanced on the outside ski). If you are rolling from edge to edge don't do it aggressively. If you are rotating your skis do it smoothly all the way around the turn, not a quick pivot at the top of the turn. Keep your speed under control. Look ahead a bit further than usual.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

c0Ka|Ne, Just like driving on ice, no sudden steering or braking. And as above, whatever you do, do it at a slower pace to what you normally would. And lastly get a good service on them edges, there's no hope on the bulletproof stuff without sharp edges!!!

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If its your own skis then the technique is in the servicing

If you hire skis then you need to select a good set for the conditions and make sure they have been serviced

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Yep, good sharp edges and trust them to do their job!

After all it is free

I am a early intermediate and asked my instructor in LA the same question. The things we then practiced to help were short turns down the edge of the piste where the better snow was usually found - as the pitch got steeper we added in a short pause before initiating the next turn. He was also very keen that I made my turns more curvey and less V like and that seemed to help when doing cruisy blues even when hard packed - it helped stop sudden movements. Looking ahead more allowed more time to pick what little surface snow I could see for turning on and to see and hopefully avoid 'blue ice'. If avoiding blue ice was not possible I would set myself up to ski it on flat skis with no movement (I found it usually on blue pistes) whilst crossing it and deal with a turn once I was off it. My 'tame ski tech' also kept the edges sharp during the week. Skidded turns on steeper pistes also seemed to help. I don't think I managed a whole lot of carving during the week (even though I can just about do it).

All the above seemed to help me.

Progressive and minimum necessary are keys to skiing harder snow.

Abrupt moves are virtually guaranteed to backfire. Trying to apply too much edge is as likely to cause the edges to escape their tracks and skid (or skitter!) across the hardpack than they are to actually hold.

So, as you work your edges, be progressive and very aware of how much edge you need to accomplish your objective. It's often less than you think.

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all the above and...

angulation, angulation, angulation

ssh, nice to see you back!

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UaNN, thanks... It's been a very strange few years for me...!

Angulation is a way to accomplish that progressive edge, and I agree: on hardpack it's even more important. Too much inclination (leaning in on your turns) and the forces on your edges trying to pry them out of their purchase increase dramatically. So, better to reduce the inclination and increase the angulation for the same edge angle (which should be the minimum necessary).

snow reports

http://youtube.com/v/4qH5Cpr3Kc0

I think one thing that helps to be mentioned is that the sensation of grip on snow vs the sensation of grip on ice are very different - you're not going to achieve the locked in, railed feeling on ice, ever - it's more how consistantly your edges can grip and deflect you where you want to go, which if you can do well enough, will allow you to carve turns into the ice.

You know it makes sense.

Thanks everyone for all the tips (and video). I'll certainly take note of everything that has been said.

I was using rental skis at the time, rather than my own. The edges seemed OK, but I'm not really experienced enough to say otherwise.

I was initially pole planting and making medium sized turns, but found that every so often that my inside leg (sometimes outside) would slip as grip was reduced. While I managed to keep my balance on these occassions, it didn't always make for a comfortable ride so keeping form was a challenge (perhaps I was too aggressive with this method?).

I did notice some people going straight down, with minimal, gradual movements. I also tried to achieve the same, and while I was fairly successful (no wipeouts Smile

), at times I felt I was picking up quite a bit of speed. Generally, speed was not so much the issue although a bit of fear did creep in at times. I felt like I was within my capability and not hopelessly out of control. I was, however, concerned about crashing out and/or taking someone with me. As a result, I only tended to use this method when the run I was on was relatively quiet.

Guess I just need to take on board what has already been said, and get a lot more practice in!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Amazing what good skis can do, I tested some Atomic slalom race short turn skis, the were a revelation compared to my all mountain skis, no chattering and biting into the ice. Don't go for a flappy fat boy fashion ski, choose a well serviced good piste ski but still allow a safety margin to allow for side slip. It is easy to go fast and straight, on my last day at Avoriaz lots off people were out of control flying, the helicopters were kept busy, I was glad to get over the hill and far away from the mad crowds.

A snowHead

A ski edge is usually considered sharp if you can scrape your fingernail against it and finely shave a bit off (underfoot is where you should test it)

without the right ski with sharp edges skiing on hardpack is not fun.... and I may be wrong but unless you have racer sharp edges then any ice is not skiable, the only way is to be aware of the terrain and avoid it(looking down for the smooth patches) and be ready to keep balance and wait for the grip to return

A snowHead

I think sharp edges or no, nothing beats being, you know, good. I was sliding around on ice at recently, and whingeing about my badly tuned rental skis (which were virtually brand new piste carvers). While Ms Flashman (an expert skier) was happily looking effortlessly brilliant on her knackered, pitted and banged up all mountain planks, which haven't been serviced for over 2 years and keep getting smashed up on rocks when she's doing her bonkers off-piste nonsense..

Just like anything else. The best money spent is on tuition/starting skiing as a kid, it seems.

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Guess I'll have the pleasure of knowing in the same conditions with my own skis rather than rented ones!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Disagree that good edges will cure everything. Trusting the edges and getting some angle on them is the key to grip. Learning this technique on longer skis requires lots of commitment which is a kind of chicken and egg problem. I recommend to go out on some snowblades with sharp edges and just carve the things everywhere. Then work up the lengths.

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nessy, now there's an interesting angle...

Perhaps one should try on ice skates first?

I think your idea is called Ski Evolutif and I claim my CHF 5.-

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

heidiky, or ski boards or whatever. The one's I used were Blizzard Carvelinos. I used them when first returning from snowboarding to make it easy when the kids were small. The techniques I learned I now use on my Missions. Am tempted to get a (very) cheap pair of slalom skis for the sort of conditions we have had recently. What about these?

It also seems to me that it is helpful to be comfortable with more speed. Seems obvious but it opens up more lines and makes it easier to avoid the shiney bits.

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nessy, you've lost me. How does going faster help you to avoid the shiney bits?

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Help!!

Best technique for skiing hardpack?

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