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Is it possible to carve on steep runs?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I've heard loads of people say that carving is only really for fairly flat runs and cant really be done on harder runs such as blacks. Is this true? If so, what technique should you use on steeper terrain?
Chris
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
codswallop! You can carve anything anywhere... although I'd possibly give it a miss on a nasty mogul run! Wink Same technique, but simply use more egde.
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You just have to go more with the fall line i.e less time between direction changes and you will be fine, of course you have to be up to skiing the slope more rapidly as a result Laughing
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If you'd seen any of this morning's tv coverage of the World Cup women's GS in Sestriere you wouldn't be asking that question! These days the quality is such that it's almost a case of "if you slide, you lose". And that applies right through to children's alpine races from 8 years up. Take a look at this 14 year old ... how much snow do you see being thrown up by the skis?
Click on : SAMY BLANC
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PG, fantastic picture. I dream of skiing this way. When I'm whizzing down some blue run I even kid myself I'm doing it. But then recently I was shown a down-hill course. Nearly vertical! And they go striaght down that?!
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Jonpim funny you should say that, the Slalom hill in wengen where the races are run is I swear steeper than the downhill course, I have a picture that is taken from the slalom course looking down the hill, it's so steep you cant actually see the slope, it goes about 5 foot foward of where I was standing then drops I guess about 150 feet in about 50 feet of foward movement, much harder than the downhill course, what I find incredible is the number of turns they put in between poles, I managed a total of 2 the pros manage something like 6 or 8 in the same space, that's skill Shocked
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I have not done the Wengen slalom run in a few years. Though from what I remember it is a scary run for the unprepared!!
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D G Orf, I remember years ago going down The Face in Val d'Isere the year it was the olympic run. I think the experts did it in under 2 mins. I took 40.
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Anne it's a scary run for the prepared its a terifying run for the unprepared at least I didnt try to do it at speed, took me about 5 mins from the top I think the experts take about 1.5 mins or less Exclamation
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I remember going down the bottom part of the slalom course in Kranskja Gora ON my face in 1990! (it was quite cold and icy in February of that year)
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PG wrote:
Take a look at this 14 year old

Looks like this one just sat down for an Atomic advert. That outside ski is at right angle to the slope!
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PG, what great angles!!! That's the way that it's done!
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MartinH,
Quote:
That outside ski is at right angle to the slope!


That's why they turn easily while we lesser mortals slide around on far shallower slopes! Plus that position well forward over the skis, facing down the slope and not across it, centre of gravity between the skis. There are days when I think I'm getting there, and then the conditions aren't so good and I'm all over the place while 10 year old locals happily cruise past....
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Surely, however good you are, at a certain steepness, you're going to need to scrub some speed of with a bit of skidding...
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Not with the perfect line. The skids are to correct a mistake in race line, not to slow down. I mentioned this elsewhere, but grass skis don't skid - yet a grass GS raced by experts is close to the speeds achieved on snow and a slalom is faster. In these races if you get the line wrong, you leave the course, simple as that...

This illustration (Nova Mesto, Czech Republic last year) was on a slope very bit as steep as the Sestriere GS yesterday. You should see a grass skier of this level trying to stop at the bottom of the course!

click on.... CZECH GRASS SKIER
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
so you'd carve down this? http://www.howtoski.net/ImagesSkiAreas/Brk36p.jpg
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Doesn't look like a piste to me!
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DavidS it is possible with practise to carve most surfaces, certainly a carved turn looses less speed than a skid, I was doing the timing on a DHO GS race earlier this year and the winner by about 4 seconds was the only person who carved the hill perfectly, most of the other competitors were within a 3 second time of each other but had at least some skids, you could actually tell the winner was going to be fast by the way he was skiing the slope, by carving the turns he lost less of his speed whereas a skid turn looses quite a lot
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D G Orf, It also uses up a lot less energy too, as ssh explains at the end of the "Power of Line" thread http://snowheads.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=350

The way you describe that race reminds me of a GS my daughter took part in in the British Children's Champs in Pitztal two years back. She was minute compared to some of the racers who were two years older, but had obviously skied far more on snow. The start was at the top of a steep wall with three gates involving sharp turns, followed by a long flat bit, then the final wall. Most skidded down from the start and ended up having to push along the flat. All their weight advantage was lost by skidding on the walls. Hannah carved down and won the race by more than 6 seconds, a ludicrously long time in a GS race.

PS there's some excellent boys in the children 1 group, including a couple who live and/or ski most of the season in France, Harry Brown and Jack Evans. Have you seen them ski?

(By the way, will you be in Meribel in April with the DHO???)
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PG Nope no chance I only help with the Wengen races whilst I'm there I don't go out of my way to help with the sproggins NehNeh
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Best avoided, from what I've seen of some of them rolling eyes
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Exactly I can cope with the adults, it's the rest that worry me Wink
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If you're a long-term member, you may have had the chance to see Chemmy in her younger days. Really something special (and still DHO affiliated, I believe)...
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PG yes, but she has honary membership so does'nt cost her anything Wink
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DavidS, sure, why not? Looks like that guy is carving, too!
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ssh, Still, he might have a problem carving that next turn Wink
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It's a dramatic photo, looks like he's heading for oblivion. I rather think the hill flattens out just below the frame, so it doesn't matter how much speed he picks up on a carved turn.
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PG, I suppose. Then again, I suspect not. Nice big arcs...!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Well beyond me on that level of gradient I'm afraid. I'm just content to watch and admire.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Beyond me as well I'm afraid Sad
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hmmm... I guess it just didn't look that steep to me. As it typical, it looks like the camera was tilted to make the slope appear steeper than it really is (I don't get why people do that!), and the snow is soft enough that you don't really have to worry about speed...

D G Orf, I had you figured for a guy like me: more at home on skis than walking in shoes. I certainly ski things that I wouldn't walk up or down. I'm no superman, though, and am not trying to beat my chest about this. My only point is that carving is a function of line, and line will often address any speed issues.

However, there is a steepness at which discretion is the better part of valor! Wink
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ssh, I'm not sure I'd go that far, let us say I'd go down steeper slopes on skis than I'd try walking down, what I really need to do is loose about 50kg then I'd be a much more confident skier, my problem is I have the ability to ski almost anything were it not for my weight which causes issues of confidence, just occasionally however everything works and I go into perfect ski mode, the trouble is it never lasts Crying or Very sad
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D G Orf, OK, friend, by when do you want to lose that? While I don't need to lose that much (more like 10lbs for me), I do need to get in better shape (especially cardiovascular). Want to hold each other accountable for the benefit next season?!
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Oh dear did I say that earlier, well I shall just have to see. If I could loose say 25kg by next season it would be a good start Embarassed
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ssh, You're right about the camera angle... but although I was involved in a number of sports at competitive level through my early years, I didn't get to ski until I'd hit 40+. Not so easy at that age! Still I'm slightly mad, and will give anything a go, and have got a helluva lot of skiing days in over the past five years. I'm an expert at telling others where they're going wrong as a result, but as for doing it myself.... well that's another matter!
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Are you sure about the camera angle in that picture? I can't see the background mountains and clouds being at much of a different angle.
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I've had a look at all the pictures on this thread and all look to have a camera angle that is near verticle/horizontal, however the picture of the off piste skier may just be a fake, there are certain artifacts arround the powder spots that indicate it could have been cut and pasted into another picture, unfortunately it could also just be down to compression artifacts from the JPEG algorithm
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
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It could be a fake, it could just be cleverly cropped.

Doesn't his stance show that he's on a very steep slope, though? He's a long way back, but his weight is not over the back of his skis.
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skanky, looks to me like the lake tilts about 5+ degrees to the right (with the bottom of the clouds). Also, there is another line of tracks between the skier and the camera, and his upper body anticipation tells me he's going to make a left turn in a minute.

But, I'm probably wrong. snowHead
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Point your skis and just go for it- If you fall over then you cant carve steep runs

All theory and no knickers!!
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