 Poster: A snowHead
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| abc wrote: |
| Still, when the wind is high, the ultimate uplift of choice is a drag lift!!! |
Not in my opinion. It's deeply unpleasant to be on a slow moving drag lift, which is likely to only serve relatively short runs, when the wind is howling. I've had thoroughly miserable pre-season days riding the t-bars on the Grand Motte at Tignes desperately trying to keep from freezing solid while travelling uphill. Would have been much, much happier to lap around in a gondola or chair with a bubble. Even a chair without a bubble would have at least increased the speed of my uphill travel, minimising the time spend in the windy conditions when not skiing.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| abc wrote: |
when the wind is high, the ultimate uplift of choice is a drag lift!!!  |
Don't think it through choice, more like the only uplift that can run. There is no other excuse for drag lifts in the 21st century except on a glaciar where static mounts can't be fitted.
Without figures to back it up, the resorts in North America that I have been way to are way behind in installing modern lifts. There is a variance in Europe between resorts but despite the lower altitude on threat of global warming I have been impressed at the investment in many Austrian resorts. 8 man detachable high speed chairs with heated seats and canopies are not uncommon. At St Anton the Galzig gondola is an engineering showpiece and new Rendlbahn gondola makes a bold architectual statement. In contrast the antique slow,fixed chairs wack the back of your legs in North America and the riders don't want to lower the safety bar (when fitted).... on the upside I have had great snow and all the area within the boundary ropes is fair game and avalanche managed. The patrol will get you down the hill if you are injured included in the ticket price, I think. (The $1000 dollar ambulance ride and $$$,$$$ a night in hospital another matter.)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Lechbob wrote: |
| Without figures to back it up, the resorts in North America that I have been way to are way behind in installing modern lifts. |
You might be right, but here's why it doesn't matter. Large lifts, such as the 8 man detachable quads and the 15 person (I think) Galzigbahn that you mention, ferry huge numbers of skiers to the top of the slopes. And that means the pistes are unbearably crowded. You might wonder at the architecture of the Rendlbahn, but the peak-time crowds pouring back down to St Anton might make you wonder why you ever bothered riding it.
The other problem with modern lifts is that gondolas, cable cars and funiculars are a convenience nightmare. First you have to remove your skis. Then you have to walk up the steps (OK, I know, your engineering marvel the Galzigbahn is an exception to that principle). Next you have to join a bunch of strangers for the ride. Then you have to wait an age for the doors to close. And when you're inside, it's too hot for your ski gear so you have to remove your helmet and gloves and unzip your coat, mid layer and thermals. Which means you have to zip back up and put things back on again, wait for the doors to slowly open and put your skis back on. Faff, faff, faff. Wasted time - 4 minutes per ride. Compare that with a chairlift - ski up, jump on, chat , jump off and go.
And it's a myth that fixed grip chairlifts are a bad way to get up the mountain: what matters is vertical metres per second, not cable speed. Your Rendlbahn architectural statement rises 721m in 12 minutes including faffing time, while my favourite chairlift, the ancient, slow, fixed grip Sublette quad in Jackson Hole rises 1,630 feet in 8 minutes. In case you're mathematically challenged, that means you can achieve more vertical per hour on the Sublette than you can on the Rendlbahn.
Finally, who care about bubbles? There's no such thing as bad weather - only bad clothing. If you're cold on the chairlifts, you need some new gear. Personally, I'm glad of the chance too cool off after a bit of aggressive skiing.
Don't misunderstand me: I love skiing both sides of the pond. But some innovations aren't as good for skiers as they at first appear.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| You might be right, but here's why it doesn't matter. Large lifts, such as the 8 man detachable quads and the 15 person (I think) Galzigbahn that you mention, ferry huge numbers of skiers to the top of the slopes. And that means the pistes are unbearably crowded. You might wonder at the architecture of the Rendlbahn, but the peak-time crowds pouring back down to St Anton might make you wonder why you ever bothered riding it. |
Surely that's only an issue at the very busiest time of the season? Even if there aren't huge numbers of people in resort in the first place you'd still get a relatively comfortable ride up the hill in modern uplift. This week I've mostly been riding 6-packs with three or four people on them - just means there's more rom to spread out and enjoy the scenery 
I agree with you about the faff of gondolas with having to take your skis off, but not so much that I'd miss terrain I'd want to ski just because it meant uplift where I'd have to unclip. Same with bubbles on chairlifts: nice to have but not a deciding factor in which part of the resort I want to ski, nevermind which resort I choose to ski in.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| it's a myth that fixed grip chairlifts are a bad way to get up the mountain: what matters is vertical metres per second, not cable speed. |
Sometimes the topography dictates a horizontal travel requirement, e.g. the Ischgl Gondola whisks you over the hill & far away. This opens up a variety of terrain for skiing rather than a US model where a hill is chosen where 3 chairs can fan out from one point & ski runs return to this point with a back bowl if you are lucky......but I would still rather be skiing steep & deep in Jackson hole than the hard pack in France this January.
You think getting the back of your legs wacked or freezing on slow fixed chair that had to be stopped for loading & un-loading mishaps is a good thing.....I too find huge Telecabins unpleasant, sharing everyones garlic & viruses. There may be a case for them to get to the top of sheer face and to take pedestrians/disabled. I did not mind the old Rendlbahn, its quaint nature and having to use a tow rope and go under the road still failed to keep the crowds away. The point was they have made the investment not to directly raise a profit from ticket sales but for civic pride and to attract people to the resort, you can argue this has a downside for the skier. You would have to study the P&L accounts to judge if a high ticket price is justified but could be difficult where the primary profit motive is from real estate.
Buttermilk for example has a very expensive real estate development, they have a flash gondola taking people up a few meters from the expensive real estate to the base and on to a modern chair but the best runs are served by an antique Tierack chair, after using it twice I was loosing the will to live. I guess the money ran out with the property price crash.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rob@rar, Lechbob, you're both largely right and I was largely being provocative. The type of lift is largely immaterial to my skiing enjoyment, but, if I had to pick a favourite, it would be a family sized detachable quad up a very steep slope. I couldn't care less about bubbles, footrests and safety bars, but I care hugely about crowds and terrain. I think that the problem is that a great deal of European investment is driven by a need to cut queues, and, if new pistes aren't cut, faster lifts simply mean busier trails. Despite the relatively low investment, crowds and queues are largely unheard of in the west of Canada and the USA and that makes for a great day skiing.
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| Quote: |
faster lifts simply mean busier trails
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my daughter found that very much the case in Flaine at half term a few years ago. There weren't big queues - but the pistes were frighteningly crowded. the snow cover was bad, so people were up in the Flaine bowl rather than spread all around.
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| Despite the relatively low investment, crowds and queues are largely unheard of in the west of Canada and the USA and that makes for a great day skiing. |
That's a nice situation, although type of uplift is probably not a big contributory factor (unless the uplift is so unpleasant that it actively keeps people away?).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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On a different,though very connected topic,how much of an influence is travel insurance becoming(or become for some)?
Hearing some quite alarming tales of insurance costs to the America's. Admittedly,most of the really high quotes have been for older people;but where they go we shall surely follow? We are talking here of normal tourist stuff...not the obviously riskier world of snow sports. The comment has been made that America is pricing itself out of the market,certainly for European tourists.
Fortunately,its not likely to affect me.Though I acknowledge the quality of some American skiing,the travelling,cost(and the size of the rest of the world)pretty much sorts it for me 
Anyone come across US insurance issues yet....or am I 12mths ahead of my time as usual?
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7 days in PdS = €232, or €33 a day, which is about £29 a day, for access to a fairly big area. But I don't know of any heated lifts. Ya big girl's blouses! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
how much of an influence is travel insurance becoming?
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I spotted last night that that Inghams is after a staggering £85 per person for 7 night's cover in North America !
WHO is inclined to pay these prices (Mrs MA & I pay about £100 for both of us for worldwide annual (ski) cover, including off piste, snowcatting etc)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Annual policies worldwide still seem to cover US relatively cheaply (although pro rate to Euro only policies look pricey). I'm not surprised at increasing premium loading for over 60s. Given that some simple stitches 6 or so years ago would have cost me $800 at a hospital had I not been insured its the US healthcare model that really is the villain (I've no idea how much discount for cash would have been available )
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mountainaddict, SCGB covers our family all year including upto 21 days in the US for £170. Inghams are optimising their income stream
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You know it makes sense.
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Inghams are optimising their income stream
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I know - but am still wondering just who shells out for TO insurance 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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FAQ
