 Poster: A snowHead
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I just wanted to throw an idea into the ring to see what people think
When skiing today I spent a lot of time working on engaging the new little toe edge when making turns. I remembered rob@rar's comments in other postings about being aware of the little toe and thinking about engaging this as soon as possible. As it was correctly pointed out, a better flex and extension can help with this ‘engaging’
Followings Rob’s advice of actively thinking about the little toe edge, it certainly works. I also recalled some advice that I received from a very experienced Austrian ski instructor. He said that the flex and extend movement, rather than simply being ‘up and down’ should be more ‘up and forward’. In doing so, expecially for short radius turns, you should try and point your nose at 45 degrees across the new inside edge as you make the turn (aiming to get your nose inside the tip of the inside ski).
This makes a lot of sense when I thought about it (and tried it – it worked well). In effect, what he was saying is that by moving up and forward you are helping get onto the soft shovel of the ski (and not in the back seat – see posting about fore/aft). But also this movement across the skis, moves the centre of mass and helps engage the new little toe edge
I hope the way I have explained it above makes sense (and I've got it the right way around when it comes to the movement across the skis)
Any thoughts? Is this a valid technique? As I said, it certainly worked for me 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Yup, that's fine. body heads down the fall line, changing the endges and getting you forward. Good for bending skis especially on tight turns.
Little point, watch out if you show your friends this one. On intermediate skiers it can very easily be turned into pro-rotation, which is naughty.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sleipnir, very interesting. I've been struggling with that, too. Does turning on just the inside ski (engage little toe edge before turn then stay on it throughout) help, or might that tend to just get you into the habit of putting too much weight on that inside ski?
I can engage the left foot inside edge better than the right - I've noticed that even with skating. Maybe one could try those "scissors step" turns (is that the right term?)
The "forward/up" movement onto that new inside ski is one (IIRC) that Fastman stresses in his DVD, looking at counter (ie left the becoming-inside hip, not drop the outside one) and I've found the exercises there very useful too. But I suspect my A frame (ie lack of engaging that edge) is so deeply ingrained it's gonna take forever.
My new ski boot inners are helping with that movement - I now know that any failures are not down to my boots.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The angle that you project across your skis will vary with the turn radius. Shorter radius the more you project across. Try doing some funnel drills to get a feel for subtle variations in this angle.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thinking about/discovering the little toe edge was, for me, the first of many lightbulb moments in lessons with rob@rar and skimottaret.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Project to wherever you think the flow-line is for that shape of turn.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| The angle that you project across your skis will vary with the turn radius. Shorter radius the more you project across. Try doing some funnel drills to get a feel for subtle variations in this angle. |
rob@rar are funnel drills essentially a set of turns whereby you start off wide and then get progressively tighter and tighter in your turns?
When skiing today, working on this (and other) things, I got a mate to record some of my runs so I can sit down and analyse what's going on. As evident from the video analysis that Rob and Scott did on the course I attended in Sölden a year or so back, it is always good to take a closer look as to what's going on as sometimes you can fool yourself into thinking you are doing something, whereas it could be something else where the true problem lies. Personally I blame the skis and the snow as to the reason why I don't ski like a Champ
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Sleipnir, you can also try an "inverted" funnel and 2 funnels as an "hourglass".
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
In doing so, expecially for short radius turns, you should try and point your nose at 45 degrees across the new inside edge as you make the turn (aiming to get your nose inside the tip of the inside ski)
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Been thinking about this and am a bit puzzled. Can you clarify when, in the turn (in relation to the apex) the "45 degrees inside" the new inside ski should be happening? I was perhaps puzzled because I'd been envisaging it after/during the apex - which would be very strongly rotated. Do the ski pass under the nose at the apex of the turn, with the 45 degrees having been before (at transition?)
(Excuse my confusion - I am having to do virtual skiing 'cos am in Hampshire for a few days).
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pam w, at transition.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rob@rar, thanks. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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One tip I picked up on the Warren Smith course in Niseko last Feb which helped getting the new "little toe" edge set, was to focus on opening the (old) downhill knee early in the transition (ie going a bit bandy-legged at this point as you change the ski from big- to little-toe edge). The other ski will follow this no problem, and it sort of helps getting away from an A-frame too as you're effectively going to the other extreme, going bandy legged first before the shins return to parallel.
If you ever get into Telemarking you'll find that the big-toe/little-toe drills are big on importance here, and translate very well to Alpine technique. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
| If I am understanding you correctly geoffers it's a variation of this other Warren Smith drill, but exaggerated when it comes to opening the (old) downhill knee |
I was thinking just a little earlier in the turn, at the point you change edges focusing on opening the old-dh. knee gets the edge change from big- to little-toe side and everything else follows on from there.
Fantastic CM carving video - wish I could do that too...
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Poster: A snowHead
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| geoffers wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If I am understanding you correctly geoffers it's a variation of this other Warren Smith drill, but exaggerated when it comes to opening the (old) downhill knee |
I was thinking just a little earlier in the turn, at the point you change edges focusing on opening the old-dh. knee gets the edge change from big- to little-toe side and everything else follows on from there. |
Got it geoffers it's at this transition point that rob@rar talked about previously
If you look on YouTube there a whole host of the videos from the same series. CM is a really good skier and when you compare him with Urska Hrovat (there's a few clips when they both ski) he's a lot better and a very clean skier - very precise, quiet upper body
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