Okay, thought I'd stick a bit of vid up of my (rather ropey!) skiing in the hope of some feedback / advice.
A bit of info:
I guess I've been skiing maybe 6 years or so. The video is from my last trip about a month or so back and shows three different runs - the 1st is on a moderate blue, 2nd is a steepish red (also a bit cut-up and bumpy - so was struggling a bit), and 3rd is another blue.
I'm off again skiing in about a week - so I thought I'd let my fellow Snowheads have a look at me in action in the hope that I can get some feedback on what I'm doing right and wrong, so that I can work on my technique when I'm back on the snow.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 20-01-11 22:35; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
From a quick look, I'd like to see you trying to get all your weight on your outside ski - if you freeze frame the first few turns you're clearly stacked up over your inside ski - that's why you're having to stem a little. Probably a little back seat too, but trying to get all your weight on the outside (which will force angulation) will probably help this too. Weighting the outside ski will allow you to edge/carve your turns more easily too, rather than being forced to pivot.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
abj, can you remember what you were trying to do in each of those clips? Some observations:
1st clip: there's a bit of a pivot starting the turns, not sure if your trying to do that or just hustling the turns a bit.
2nd clip: you're getting bigger edge angles then clip 1 or 3, despite it being a bit steeper. You seem a bit more committed to those turns.
3rd clip: skis are not being engaged until the 2nd half of the turns (look for when you get a puff of snow off your skis). More lateral movement and a slower transition if you want to carve.
Generally you seem to be standing on your heels a bit, possible as a result of not much extension or lateral movement. Overall it's nice skiing, is that 6 weeks of skiing in six years? Looks like a bit more than that. General advice would be to get the skis working a bit earlier in teh turn (more grip, less pivot) maybe by increasing your edge angles and using a bit more flexion and extension.
can you remember what you were trying to do in each of those clips?
First and second clips I'm practicing shorter radius turns - trying to work to keep to control my speed (so are intentionally skiddy). The third I was trying for clean(er) longer radius turns.
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All of the above, abj.
That looks like tidy skiing which gives you a good basis on which to develop. I don't see any fundamental flaws in it (ie the sort of thing that would require your skiing to be unstitched and put back together again) just the sort of things that DaveC and rob@rar mention as aspects to work on and develop. I am just saying the same as they are in different words when I suggest you work firstly on the initiation of your turn and develop a more dynamic extension of your outer(uphill) leg. Such extension as you are currently doing seems evenly weighted on each leg with the result that you have to swing your skis round by pivoting them. The pressure on your outer ski at the start of the turn by that specific extension of the one leg will make it do the work of turning the ski on its edge leaving any steering you need to do till after you are through the flow line (ie straight down the hill). A good early exercise to develop the feel of working the one leg is simply to traverse and as you go, extend your uphill leg to press the ski on to the snow, relax the leg, extend it again and so on. As you get the feel of that, go as far as to lift your downhill ski off the snow when you extend. As with any development drill, choose a reasonably shallow even and quiet slope to do it on so that other factors like speed, bumpy bits , other punters aren't factors. Agreed your weight is a bit back on the heels but that could shift a bit with more independent leg action.
abj, Quick look - looks good - keep both skis on the ground all the time
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abj, Good work. I'd echo the comments\suggestions above. The 3rd run is definitely going to benefit from more lateral movement (as per Robs comment).
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After all it is free
rob@rar, david@mediacopy, so when you say 'lateral' movement - do you mean trying to get bigger angles / more inclination?
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abj wrote:
rob@rar, david@mediacopy, so when you say 'lateral' movement - do you mean trying to get bigger angles / more inclination?
Yes, although angulation is what you're looking for in the second half of the turn.
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rob@rar, okay. That makes sense.
To be honest, I think I'm being a bit of a wimp when it comes to getting bigger angles .... too worried about falling!!
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abj wrote:
To be honest, I think I'm being a bit of a wimp when it comes to getting bigger angles .... too worried about falling!!
When you are well balanced on your skis bigger edge angles just feel natural. More edge angle = more grip; with more grip you can feel secure when travelling at higher speeds; with higher speeds you can achieve higher edge angles. It's a virtuous circle
If you focus on having a long, strong outside leg you'll find that you can generate and work with high forces as you turn. Use those forces to balance against as you tip your skis more on to their edges.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
abj, Think of the guys you see racing motorcycles, leaning as they go around a corner. The dynamics are similar in that they balance the amount of lateral movement against speed and grip.
The big difference is in skiing, more lateral movement should add more grip through increased tilt from the skis - but you need speed to balance it against. Looking at your clip you appear to be carrying enough speed to support some extra lateral movement.
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rob@rar, david@mediacopy - yep, makes sense.
One question: does a higher edge angle mean a tighter turn?
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
abj wrote:
One question: does a higher edge angle mean a tighter turn?
yep, assuming it's gripping, but there will be a point where it breaks down. Have a look at FastMan's post here:
Looks pretty solid to me, for practicing your short swings on the steeper runs, to become more dynamic, try to finish your turn with a little more flex down & forwards in your boots, be progressive, then with a stronger more deliberate pole plant you'll be able to extend across your skis with more pop into your new turn, the flex will also help to bring the inside leg/knee to a better position.
Think "long leg short leg" for your carving runs, you'll need to start with a nice wide stance and "ready" position don't try to throw your hips in at the beginning of the turn, keeping a wide stance feel like you’re driving your outside ski forward and down through your outside hip & shoulder, don't swing your upper body, just feel like you’re driving that side with a strong shoulder,hip, knee connection, Your outside ski will start to grip and you'll stay more in balance "no leaning in", as you feel your skis grip and supporting you, you can progressively think long leg short leg maintaining a wide stance, also don’t try to steer with the legs, just let the skis sidecut dictate the turn, as you progress you will be able to tighten the turn by pressure not steering/pivoting. Do this from turn to turn on shallow runs & you'll be amazed at the angles and tight turns you can do, even at relatively low speeds!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
ccl,
Quote:
outer(uphill) leg.
Quote:
A good early exercise to develop the feel of working the one leg is simply to traverse and as you go, extend your uphill leg to press the ski on to the snow, relax the leg, extend it again and so on. As you get the feel of that, go as far as to lift your downhill ski off the snow when you extend.
Do you really mean this? It's a drill I've learnt and been practising lately, but not to get a feel of 'long leg short leg' for carving.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Yes I meant that. The uphill leg extends in the initiation of the turn and is the outer leg in the turn. By developing a more dynamic extension of that leg you achieve an earlier changing and engaging of your edges and assist in the movement of the hips downhill over the skis .... which is what I thought abj would gain from doing.
The exercise is one I would use mostly in effecting the transition from plough parallel to parallel or as in the above to develop a more dynamic technique in an already competent parallel skiing. It's about feeling and developing independent leg action. It's not particularly an I would use for carving as such, but it's certainly going to help you to a sound basis for carving. You need independent action to change your short leg/long leg to your long leg/short leg if you see what I mean. Also any earlier work you have done in developing the crossing over of your hips will be helpful in carving.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
The biggest barrier when learning to carve is learning to lock the skis on their edges, once a skier has learnt to do that, the long leg short leg bit will be the easy part! Misconception: "You need to be going fast to carve", in fact it is possible to learn the basics of carving and railroading at quite slow speeds & with the right skis, very slow speeds!
Hypothetical Skier scenario : Right! I need to create good edge angles for my skis to bite, trouble is that if I lean in I'm scared I'll fall over, so I need to go faster to get support, but then I lose confidence to put my skis on edge! Around & around in circles we go! You don't need to lean in to get your skis on edge!
The reason this type of skier is having such a problem is he has isolated the very joints that will give him the angles he is struggling to find, "he is standing tall in his boots!"
Experiment : stand relatively tall preferably in ski boots so there's no cheating, now roll your knees from side to side = not much angle created at the feet was there! And a sure fire way to wreck your knees as they are not designed to bend this way.
Now : this time sit on a dining chair with you backside just over halfway on, roll your knees from side to side again letting your feet just rock from edge to edge, now look at these lovely new angles you have just created "welcome to the party hip joints!" this is where angulation occurs in the body the hip ball & socket joints!
I certainly wouldn't endorse skiing like your sat on a chair but it explanes the theory! So next time your practicing railroading turns find a gentle slope, point yourself straight down the fall line, get much lower & wider than your use to, center over your skis and let your hips joints do the rolling, not the shoulders! To whom it concerns!
It's about feeling and developing independent leg action. It's not particularly an I would use for carving as such, but it's certainly going to help you to a sound basis for carving. You need independent action to change your short leg/long leg to your long leg/short leg if you see what I mean.
Yes, I do see that. Still not altogether sure about the wording of your original post, but then it is very difficult to reduce this stuff to words alone. I will tactfully withdraw at this point.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Getting the right words is easier when speaking to someone - you can rephrase and point etc when you see that slightly glazed look of incomprehension. Could have been a topic for a blether over a beer in Serre Chevalier but I see you aren't going
gatecrasher, thanks for the feedback. Funnilly enough when I was in Avoriaz a week or so back I was trying to work on getting a little lower/wider when practicing carved turns. It's coming (slowly) - but I tend to drift back to a narrower/upright stance if I don't concentrate!
The other thing that I struggled with is getting lower, but without feeling like I'm getting into the backseat. I think this is a lot to do with ankle flex - which again I'm trying to work on.
ccl, tried working on your drill and seemed to make sense.
I had a private lesson, and the instructor was working with me on some similar drills - so hopefully I'll start to feel/see some improvement here.
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abj Like a lot of good skiers your posture is at its best and most relaxed on your steepest decent because you have put yourself in a more ready position to tackle whatever the hill might throw at you, to keep yourself more in this position on more carving friendly runs takes more conscious effort, so even if only when your practicing, set up at the start of that run like your ready to take it all on, sink your hips down and forward towards your. boots, open your shoulder blades (your lower back will round out without thinking and you'll be lower) see how it goes! Set up before every run and it will eventually stay on board.
we practice staying wide by doing plough parallel's and instead of just letting inside ski match by skidding the tail in which makes you narrow, we have to actively steer the tip out with the hip joint, its just a slow speed drill but it does give you a good feeling for being wider all over
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abj, top marks on sticking your video on here - brave! I can't comment on your skiing but am benefitting from some of the suggestions from instructors. Thinking about the exchange between ccl and Hurtle, trying to envisage what was being suggested, is this like when you do a javelin turn, with all the weight transferring to the uphill ski and the downhill (shortly to become uphill, after the turn) ski then lifting and crossing as the outer ski turns underneath it? I've been trying to practice that today, sometimes successfully, sometimes not - a bit rushed and jerky at times.
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Uphill and downhill are very confusing terms. Much better to get in to the habit of talking about inside and outside.
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rob@rar, OK. Is what ccl is suggesting similar to a javelin turn where you transfer the weight to the outside (uphill) ski at transition, then keep it there, crossing under the lifted ski, till the next transition, when it becomes the inside (lifted/crossed) ski?
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A minor point, rob@rar. I do tend to use outside/inside rather than uphill/downhill (although not for some unknown retro? reason in my first posting in this thread)l but I'm not sure the latter terms are necessarily much less open to confusion. In effect it doesn't matter what terms you use - it might just as easily be potato/turnip legs - provided the terms have been defined with the client. And of course a posting such as mine leaps straight into talking about a particular matter without the benefit of the previous discussion of terminology or the on the spot reminder ("Now you remember when I talk about the outside/uphill/potato leg, I mean.....") or the visual opportunity to point to the leg in question, slap it, lift it up and shake it all about. The primary difficulty with whatever terms we use is the fact that the uphill/outside/potato leg is going to change in the course of a turn and become the downhlll/inside/turnip leg. The terms I doubt anyone would use in all of this, are left and right. Now that would be totally bamboozling. As I say it is a minor point: what matters in any form of teaching of any subject is ensuring the learner understands whatever words you use.
As to javelin turns, pam w, I see these as a a much more advanced drill than the one I described, but yes along the same lines of developing strong support by the outside leg (indeed it has to be 100% support in order to lift the inner ski), again independent leg action in the transition from turn to turn plus other matters including rather obviously balance! I guess you see a connection between the earlier drill and this more advanced one because you are recognising the essential features of your skiing that they are intended in common to develop - albeit at different stages.
Edit! Reading this posting through, I wonder how to make words seem less assertive, less apparently statements of incontrovertible fact when they are really tentatively setting out a point of view that is open to discussion. In short, how do I stop sounding like the bloody schoolteacher I once was?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
ccl, pam w,
Quote:
I do tend to use outside/inside rather than uphill/downhill
Quote:
where you transfer the weight to the outside (uphill) ski
This is making my brain hurt. Please could I ask you, for one moment, to imagine you're executing a simple traverse (no turning involved)? Just for argument's sake, the valley is on your left. What do you call the left ski at this point? Personally, I call it the outside, or downhill ski - on account of the fact that is on the 'outside' of the mountain and is - in relation to the other ski - downhill. What's confusing the heck out of me is the idea that outside=uphill. Ever. Although I grant you that, whatever it is, it changes its nature on a turn.
"Outer tip lead" anyone?
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Quote:
What's confusing the heck out of me is the idea that outside=uphill. Ever
When you are doing your traverse - just in an absolute straight line - I guess there isn't an "inside/outside" ski as that terminology only makes sense in turns. Obviously there is an uphill/downhill, provided you are on a slope.
So, you are doing your traverse, as you describe, valley on left. But you are then going to turn left - maybe it's a very short traverse 'cos there's a big patch of ice you don't want to turn on. As you turn left, your uphill ski will become the outside ski of the turn. Had you NOT traversed at all, but just kept going with nice big linked turns, your right and left legs take it in turns to become the outside and inside ski. Hopefully cleanly, at transition.
With a javelin turn you can gradually work up to picking up one ski earlier and earlier in the turn - I was aiming, yesterday, at doing it in such a way that if I was doing perfectly symmetrical curves down a wide, easy, slope, each transition would have been vertically above the other and except for those brief moments of transition, I only ever had one foot on the snow.
Didn't always work out quite like that.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
pam w, all agreed, EXCEPT this bit:
Quote:
When you are doing your traverse - just in an absolute straight line - I guess there isn't an "inside/outside" ski
Yes there is - one is on the inside ie between you and the hill, and the other is on the outside ie between you and the valley. And that's the terminology I've understood from my lessons with Rob and Scott for the last year and a half. It's amazing I can even stand up on my skis, let alone do drills which involve initiating a turn in different - sometime unorthodox - ways, if this was all a huge misunderstanding.
Please could someone take me out and shoot me?
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Hurtle, the outside ski is almost always up the slope from the inside ski when you start the turn.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
abj,
You have a fundamental flaw in clip 3
When that snowboarder nearly cut you up you shoudl have carved aggressively in their direction, perhaps pretending to be out of control and about to wipe out into them, enhanced by a couple of poles waving about erractically, whilst shouting your full complement of german swear words at them
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rob@rar, yes, I grant you that - or rather what becomes the outside ski. But what if you're simply traversing? (Humour me by letting me get that into my head first. I'm a bear of little brain...)
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hurtle wrote:
But what if you're simply traversing?
There are only two excuses for traversing: (1) you want to get to the secret stash of perfect powder without ablating altitude*, or (2) me or Scott make you do it for the purpose of some mad drill. The rest of the time you need to be turning.
* Ablating isn't the best word to use here, but I like the effect of the alliterative trio.
abj, Some good skiing there, nice body position, no winding down the windows etc!! I would probably disagree with most replies (please don't kill me everyone!) and say the first port of call would be your turn initiation/transition between turns. Check out freeze frames 0.13 and 0.43 secs and you can see that at this point, the hips are very far back. I think someone has mentioned above about extending - this would really help. Bringing the hips up and forward at the start of the turn will release the skis from the last turn and carry your power into the next one. When you can successfully start the turn with the hips forward you will feel a massive difference. You can see in that although your basic position is good, it is very static; meaning that as you are quite low you end up getting in the backseat and not being able to carry the energy generated from the last turn into the next. And breath! Check this out in the second clip.
Bringing the hips up and forward at the start of the turn will also make you become a little more patient and eliminate the need to occasionally lift the ski slightly (and to be less 'pivoty'). There's a few turns where the weight could be more on the downhill ski, but generally you are laterally balanced. You can see that this in the carvy type turns - spray is coming mainly from the outside/downhill ski Smile If you were to do these turns on steeper terrain then definitely some work on angulation (being over the downhill ski) would be valuable.
Hope that all makes sense! In short, instead of staying static start moving your hips forward at the start of the turn Smile
Apologies for the essay!
one is on the inside ie between you and the hill, and the other is on the outside ie between you and the valley
that's a new definition of inside and outside to me. When you do a complete turn on one ski, as I describe above, that "outside ski" (your right ski if you are about to turn left, unless you're doing white pass turns...) that one OUTSIDE ski starts off above you, then comes round to being alongside you (at the apex of the turn) then is below you as you finish the turn. Whether it's between you and the hill or between you and the valley (and it is both, at different times) it remains the outside ski of the turn.
Doing one of those inexcusable traverses, straight, no turning, is when it DOES make sense to use "uphill and downhill" ski, I reckon. Beginners do exercises traversing on the downhill ski, and more advanced skiers sometimes do it on the uphill ski.
I like "ablating" - that's a new one on me, too.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Nice base. No basic mistakes. More up and down movement will help.
After all it is free
After all it is free
rob@rar wrote:
without ablating altitude ......
Is ablating legal?
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I give up!
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The inside ski is the one on the outside edge. The outside ski is the one on the inside edge. Yes? So wouldn't it be clearer to talk about the edge rather than the ski?
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
Please could I ask you, for one moment, to imagine you're executing a simple traverse (no turning involved)? Just for argument's sake, the valley is on your left. What do you call the left ski at this point? Personally, I call it the outside, or downhill ski - on account of the fact that is on the 'outside' of the mountain and is - in relation to the other ski - downhill. What's confusing the heck out of me is the idea that outside=uphill. Ever. Although I grant you that, whatever it is, it changes its nature on a turn.
