 Poster: A snowHead
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The issue with the US TSA not being happy with cylinders that they cannot see into is due to the concern that there may be something nefarious secreted inside and is separate from the IATA dangerous goods regulations. Even if/when IATA allows 300ml cylinders the TSA may still not allow them. Remember that Airlines and Countries cannot allow goods on board aircraft unless the goods are IATA approved but they are not obliged to allow such goods and ignorance and paranoia means they will often say no rather than take a chance with something they do not understand. On the positive side airbag systems are becoming more common and better known by the airlines and security. By the way this stuff is now part of my daily work so I am supposed to know what I am talking about.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, if flew to Geneva and back with no issues whatsoever. Informed airlines, packaged accordingly... no issues at all
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have updated the copy to the 2013 IATA regs on my section flying with an Avalanche Airbag http://shop.snowshepherd.co.uk/Air-Bags/Flying-with-avalanche-airbag
The interesting thing now is that all reference to the size of the cylinder has been dropped, they now say small cylinder in the revision notes, so does this mean that you can fly with the larger 207 bar cylinders, my guess is yes the however will be how quickly the airline security people act on this.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Checkin lady at Innbruck actually recognised my Snowpulse pack and asked if everything was disconnected properly for the flight without being prompted. Great contrast to the consternation at Heathrow a couple of years ago on my pack's maiden flight!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Just back from Canada, no issues with ABS on BA direct to Vancouver.
Much curiosity in Whistler as to what ABS was, and why we needed one....
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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hamilton, interesting. I thought there might be an issue coming back because the requirements for cylinder size were different in North America
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Can you use the backpack element as hand luggage with the canister in the main luggage or does it all need to go in the main luggage ?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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AndAnotherThing.., I use the rucksack as normal hand luggage and put ABS trigger and canister in hold luggage, never an issue
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AndAnotherThing..,
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Can you use the backpack element as hand luggage with the canister in the main luggage or does it all need to go in the main luggage ?
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Yes it is possible and quite a few people do this, the however part is that the internal workings of the airbag look pretty strange going through the scanners at airports, sometimes people are pulled over to explain whats inside. So the choice is yours really its a small risk I think, if its an abs then make sure the trigger handle goes into the hold luggage as well as the canister.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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hamilton,
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Just back from Canada, no issues with ABS on BA direct to Vancouver.
Much curiosity in Whistler as to what ABS was, and why we needed one....
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many thanks for the Info I have a customer heading out to Canada on Friday and this might help them sort things out
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Multiple trips to and fro between the alps and UK on sleazy, BA, Luftwaffe always taking pack in cabin and putting handle and bottle in poly-pack in the hold. No probs. then on way back from Chambery I had first time put my pack in the hold. They screened it and spotted it and called me in to check it was all disconnected. The previous week a departed had their pack fully loaded in hold and it had deployed and the aircraft had to come back.
Moral: pack in cabin , bottle and handle in poly-pack in hold, ABS and IATA PDFs with passport
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Just a quick note to stay that I had no problems travelling outbound from London Heathrow to Vancouver with my SnowPulse, complete with nitrogen canister. I dropped an email through to BA and they approved it for travel in the hold. I also had no issues on a private charter up to Blue River in BC (Mike Wiegele's). On both flights the pack and canister were packed separately in the hold.
Very happy with the SnowPulse ProRider 22 pack, plenty of space and the straps were comfortable. The pack was a decent construction and the activation handle was very easy to deactivate when getting in and out of the heli. It appeared noticeably easier than the ABS which looked fiddly especially in gloves or with cold hands.
Thanks to Tim at Snowshepherd for the advice and getting the two packs delivered to me in time.
Finally, does anyone know if it is safe to remove the Snowpulse canister from the pack (nitrogen or refillable air type) whilst the canister is full and has not been deployed?
Thanks in advance
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You know it makes sense.
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chrishow, Yup you just unscrew it and put the plastic cap, which you've kept?! back on.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Re flying to Canada, here's a useful link to the Canadian Air Transport Security Service Website, which says that avalanche backpacks are allowed, provided the airline agrees. The stricter "no flying full" regulations are for the US. The confusion seems to arise because bloggers/writers in the US seem to think it is equivalent to "North America", ignoring the fact that Canada is there too!
http://www.catsa.gc.ca/Page.aspx?ID=4&pname=Whattopack_Faitesvosbagages&lang=en&ItemID=371&CategoryID=7&mode=list
Also, if you look at the Air Canada regs, they pretty much follow the IATA regs.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| DB wrote: |
| Anybody flown to India with a Snowpulse bag? Friends are going skiing over there in 8 days but the Airline has said they can't take the nitrogen cylinders. HELP !!!!! |
Hi there!
So, I'll fly from Delhi to Shrinagar in 4 days, so, - was that o'k with Snowpulse cylinder in domestic airways?
I'll use IndiGo carrier. I have European Snowpulse cylinder.
Thanks in Advance!
FYI: Etihad Airways gave me permissions via e-mail according to IATA, so I'll take it in cabin with backpack.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I don't suppose the security folks at Bournemouth International (yes, international) airport come across too many ABS packs. I'd advised check-in and they were fine. The special baggage scan showed up the bottle and the guy on duty there called in his boss from central security who looked at my PDFs of the IATA and ABS material and ok'd it for hold luggage. Pack in cabin. All good
Be prepared with all the supporting documentation!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Came back from Chambery last weekend with Titan Airways (a good carrier) bringing back my ABS. I had e-mailed Titan in advance re backpack and they had advised that providing the canister and trigger were detached I could carry in my main luggage or hand luggage. In the end I took the backpack itself as hand luggage and put canister and trigger in the case. They also advised (as other posters have) that I should carry the e-mail with me. Flying out from Stansted I mentioned the bag at check in-no problems. Given that many have commented on Chambery being potentially difficult I e-mailed them in advance to advise that I would have this (fortunately I work with a French lad who was able to properly translate my e-mail). This proved worthwhile as after chasing I received a confirmation e-mail saying it was fine. Upon return through Chambery I advised at the check in desk that I had an ABS canister and trigger in my main bag (all bags appear to be scanned immediately behind the desk). I was asked to go behind the desk and open my case. The security chap pulled out the canister and looked at it in bewilderment. He eventually called a manager and eventually there were 4 of them studying the canister and not really paying attention to my e-mail. Eventually (and it didn't take too long) one of them read the e-mail and said 'ah this is ok it's from my manager'. I was then asked for confirmation from my carrier (which I had and all was ok). So my advise is e-mail the carrier and also the airport and carry copies and IATA regs (although this time I didn't need these). Chambery email: @chambery-airport.com. I will post the perfectly crafted e-mail shortly for anyone who doesn't have access to a translator!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I will post the perfectly crafted e-mail shortly for anyone who doesn't have access to a translator![/quote]Hi Carlosi, looking forward to the email i can send as i am flying to Chambery in a couple of weeks
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I don't doubt English would work but its always nice to make the effort so below is e-mail in english and then below that in french....
I am due to travel through Chambery airport on the flights detailed below and would appreciate a written e-mail confirming that I am ok to carry my avalanche rescue backpack through security. I have had written confirmation from my flight carrier that this is ok but would also appreciate this from yourselves.
I understand that this is in accordance with the IATA regulations which state:
Avalanche rescue backpack, one (1) per person, containing a cylinder of compressed gas in Div. 2.2. May also be equipped with a pyrotechnic trigger mechanism containing less than 200 mg net of Div. 1.4S. The backpack must be packed in such a manner that it cannot be accidentally activated. The airbags within the backpacks must be fitted with pressure relief valves.....
My flight details are:
Outbound
Saturday 2 February 2013 10:15 London Stansted to Chambery arriving at 13:00 ZT3331
Inbound
Saturday 9 February 2013 14:00 Chambery to London Stansted arriving at 15:00 ZT3332
My backpack is a standard ABS (avalanche buoyancy system) 'Escape 30' which includes a 0.22l compressed non-hazardous gas at 300 bar
Please confirm by return in order that I may addresses any issues encountered on both days.
Bonjour,
J’ai un vol à destination de l’aéroport de Chambery le 2 Février 2013 en provenance de London Stansted et j’aurais souhaité avoir une confirmation écrite de votre part me confirmant que j’ai l’authorisation de voyager avec un sac à dos de secours en avalanche. En effet, j’ai reçu une confirmation écrite de ma compagnie aérienne mais j’aurais souhaité en avoir une de votre part aussi.
Je crois savoir que c’est en accord avec les regulations de l’IATA qui dit, je cite:
Sac à dos de secours en avalanche: un (1) par personne, contenant une bouteille de gaz comprimé
Div. 2,2. Peut également être équipé d'un mécanisme de déclenchement pyrotechnique contenant moins de
200 mg de filet Div. 1.4S. Le dispositif doit être emballé d'une manière telle qu'il ne peut pas être
activé accidentellement. Les sacs gonflables du dispositif doivent être monté avec limiteur de pression
vannes.
Les informations de mon voyage sont:
Vol Aller
Samedi 2 février 2013 au départ de Londres Stansted à 10:15, arrivée à Chambery pour 13h.
Vol Retour
Samedi 9 février 2013 au départ de Chambéry à 14h, arrivée à Londres prevue pour 15h.
Mon sac à dos de secours en avalanche est de type standard ABS (avalanche buoyancy system) ‘Escape 30’ incluant un 0.221 comprimé de gaz non-dangereux à 300 bar.
En attendant une réponse de votre part.
Merci de votre compréhension.
Bien cordialement,
And the response which broadly translates to 'ok no problem make sure your carrier knows' was:
Si vous avez en votre possession une autorisation de la compagnie, il n’y aura aucun problème pour votre enregistrement.
Vous devrez simplement le déclarer à l’enregistrement, nous ferons les vérifications d’usage (celles citées ci-dessous dans votre mail) et présenter la lettre de la compagnie.
Si jamais il nous manquait des éléments, nous prendrions contact directement avec la compagnie (ce qui nous arrive de faire très fréquemment).
Cordialement.
Audrey.
Superviseur passage / Customer service supervisor
SEACA
Chambéry Savoie
tel : 0033+667990955.
mail : customerdesk@chambery-airport.com
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Performed flights back and forth by Etihad Airways (transfer in Abu-Dhabi) and IndiGo+JetAir in India.
Everything is OK.
My back trip - I did not declared cylinder, just putted it in luggage, an that's all. Vary many people with ABS and Snowpulse in India.
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IBERIA, BA and LAN
I managed to fly with my ABS and a full cartridge EDI-LHR-MAD operated by BA; Madrid to Santiago de Chile (SCL) operated with Iberia; and finally Santiago to Temuco operated by LAN. All under the same booking.
BA: no problems at all as I expected, staff are informed about this.
Iberia: NOT as straight forward as I expected. Although it was fine after speaking to 5 different personnel and getting the flight agent (JLA) involved. I did get a few ¨no mr, no mr, no mr, no gas! Maybe something to do with a language barrier issue. I do speak fluent Spanish and English, but their call centre seems to be based in somewhere in Asia, with a very bad connection. Use the following link for Iberia:
http://www.iberia.com/web/product.do?cntCat=Productos/EQUIAP&cntId=cuadro_mercan_peligrosas&language=en&country=GB&market=GB
LAN (in Santiago): not a problem, but the girl at the desk did not have a clue what I was talking about… avalanche what? The pack got checked in in my last flight but I decided it was better to check with the security people, so I went to talk to them… and there was a problem, ¨No señor¨, no gas cylinders are allowed, and the bag was going to get confiscated. I asked to talk to the supervisor and I had all my paperwork ready and showed it to him. 5 minutes and I got the thumbs up…. Ufffff!
Things to have in mind which are already mentioned in this forum:
1. Make sure there is a note about the AVALANCHE RESCUE BACKPACK in your booking with every separate airline, despite the fact the different flights are under the same booking.
2. Have a copy of all documents recommended by ABS handy (quick access to this will avoid the supervisor walking away before you can explain your case properly). And a copy of all this documents attached to your ABS pack.
3. Be nice and polite.
Good luck!
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Hi. I have recently bought a Mammut RAS airbag system but was told by Easyjet that I couldn't take the cartridge on the flight from UK to Geneva even though the cartridge was empty. The cartridge is 207 bar aluminium and is operated by a mechanical system (not pyrotechnic device). I noticed on the forum that others have managed with difficulty to fly with the pyrotechnic type cartridge. Does anybody have experience of taking the cartridge with the mechanical system?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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DPR, Hi and welcome to Snowheads, EJ have been OK to fly with for a couple of years now as long as you follow the guidelines of the thread above.
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Easyjet that I couldn't take the cartridge on the flight from UK to Geneva even though the cartridge was empty.
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Where and when were you told this, at the airport via email or phone etc?
There is not really any difference now in flying with a ABS style trigger or the Snowpulse style system, the 207 cylinder has only this year been accepted by the IATA regs
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Thanks. I was emailed by Easyjet in March of this year before flying to Geneva. Are you saying that it's ok to fly with the 207 bar cylinder, empty or full? Do you know the size in millilitres of the 207 bar aluminium cylinder (because I thought it referred to volume on the IATA site).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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DPR, The Snowpulse 207 bar cylinder is 3.53mm 0.36 L this is all printed on the cylinder
The IATA regs changed in January 2013 to accept these cylinders as the reference to the 250 ml was dropped by the IATA to take into account the cylinders from BCA and also Snowpulse.
You can fly with these cylinders either full or empty, I would email again and send a copy of the IATA regs as an attachment you can download this from my site (see links above) if they still say no which would be strange, email again and ask for the email to be forwarded to a manager, if that fails then phone them, I spent quite alot of time on the phone to Easy Jet and was told flying with an Avalanche Rescue Backpack was OK.
Couple of other points, if the cylinder is empty and the top section separated so you can see inside then I would have thought you could fly with this in your hold luggage without even declaring it?
At the end of the day Easy Jet could say no as its down to them regardless of the IATA regs, however I would be very surprised if Easy Jet did this especially as they sadly lost one of their pilots in an avalanche a couple of years ago 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Livetoski, thanks I will do that and let you know the result.
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Hi,
quick question - my ABS Vario has become separated. The cylinder and handle are now in California, the rucksack in London. I can get the cylinder and handle brought over to me next month... assuming they're empty/deactivated. But is it possible to empty the cylinder and blow the handle without the rucksack? I'm fearing not!
Thanks,
Dominic
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You know it makes sense.
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They should be ok to travel fully activated. Depends on the idiots reading the package info though.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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BTW - Easyjet have been great with me over the past few years. It really is a formality.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Avalanche Poodle wrote: |
| They should be ok to travel fully activated. Depends on the idiots reading the package info though. |
This is not correct when flying to or from America, I'm afraid, due to the very strict TSA rules. They need to be discharged and the head unscrewed from the cylinder.
I have to say I'm not sure how you could discharge it without the rucksack. Maybe livetoski has come across this before 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks, it is indeed the TSA regulations that need to be adhered to, in order to bring it out of the USA, from California! I know it needs to be empty, and with the head removed. But how to empty it without the rucksack!?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Dominic, Sorry was not around yesterday to see the thread update, the ABS cylinder is a bit of a pain to empty without the bag, I would advise getting it to a dive shop and ask them to do it for you, discharging an cylinder without the bag is not advised, however is slightly easier on the Mammut and BCA cylinders but you have to be really careful as the pressure is pretty high!!!
Flying with a full cylinder on internal flights in the US is not really allowed as said above the TSA rules say NO. The however is flying from the UK to the US with a full cylinder this has been done many times by customers, the same is true of Canada.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hi livetoski,
thanks, it's all about getting it out of the US! Needs to come on a plane from SFO in November. I guess I'll pack my brother off to a dive shop or a ski shop that sells them then!
Thanks for your help.
Dominic
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Just tried to contact 3 different airlines to let them know I'll be flying with an airbag this season. Here are 3 very different experiences.
BA - I didn't find an email address so I called them on the number for baggage queries. Clueless. Conversation went something like this:
Me: "Hi, I'm flying to Geneva in January and I'll be taking an Avalanche Rescue Rucksack, as this is a restricted item I need to inform you and confirm this is OK"
BA: "Err. You're taking skis? Yes, that's fine" [I never mentioned skis, I haven't booked skis as luggage, I have no idea why she thought this]
Me :"No, not skis, an Avalanche Rescue Rucksack, it's a restricted item under IATA regulations"
BA: "Err. You're taking a rucksack? That's OK"
... I tried to explain again, eventually gave up and agreed it was a rucksack.
Me: "Can you confirm via email that this is approved"
BA: "There's no need, you can call anytime to check"
I gave up... I've emailed the Executive Club because that's the only email address I could find, yet to hear back. Surely there's a customer services email address???
Swiss - emailed via their website under the luggage queries section. Bit of a pain to use the website, but now I have an email address I'll use that in future (it's just the generic contactus@swiss.com). Got a reply the next working day asking me to confirm it met the IATA regulations ()they quoted them verbatim), I replied with "yes it does" and got confirmation back that I can take it, either in the hold or as hand luggage. Easy.
Crystal - airline is Thompson but I booked this trip via Crystal so I emailed them. Got a prompt response, apparently Thompson are still not sure what their rules are but they are aware people are carrying them and I should email them (Crystal) again in December. Not great, I would have thought they would be very used to this by now and it would be a formality. I'm not expecting any issues but I'd like to have got it all sorted in one go.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I haven't bothered with pre-clearance for a couple of seasons - no issues yet across a number of airlines [/tempting fate]
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| Arno wrote: |
| I haven't bothered with pre-clearance for a couple of seasons - no issues yet across a number of airlines [/tempting fate] |
Do you tell them at check in?
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BA have confirmed that the only way to tell them is to call the baggage queries number; I assume this means no email confirmation. I thin k I'll jus take the Arno approach in future...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Now that I’m the proud owner of a Mammut Ride avalanche rescue pack bought from Tim (Snow)Shepherd last week (thanks for all your help, Tim!), I thought I’d call British Airways to let them know so I don’t get held up at check in. After all, there’s loads of stuff here on Snowheads saying how easy it all is now.
Well … my experience echoes sah’s - someone must have forgotten to tell the BA call centre (in India?) how easy it is. The first person I spoke to could hardly speak English at all and had no idea what I was talking about. My patience ran out and I rang off! The second person was not much better – I had to spell ‘avalanche’ and describe what the pack was for. This one decided he couldn’t help and told me to call back later in the day – on the same number – and ask for ‘special requests’.
When I called back for a third time, I got through to the same call centre, but this time I got to speak to a lovely lady who, after a long hold, did know what to do and (hopefully) she’s now marked the special request that I will be travelling with an avalanche rescue pack on all my flight bookings to and from GVA. I guess the proof that she got it right will be when I try to check in at LHR in 3 weeks.
So, as regards lessons learned … if/when you call BA, it will be complete luck if you get an operator who speaks good English, who knows what an avalanche rescue pack is, and also knows what he/she is doing, but asking to put a ‘special request’ onto the booking reference does seem to mean something to them.
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I haven't bothered with pre-clearance for a couple of seasons - no issues yet across a number of airlines [/tempting fate]
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I have not had a problem yet having flown through Innsbruck, Geneva and Grenoble with the bag and without having pre-alerted the airline. I always discuss it with them at check-in and have the documentation both on me and tied round the cylinder. Usually in more than one language.
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FAQ
