 Poster: A snowHead
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I have a small snippet to impart about queuing. I wonder if anyone else has any tips to supplement my experience.
The fluid dynamic engineers amongst us will know that the flow of a liquid is fastest on the outside of a bend in a pipe and turbulence on the inside can bring flow to a halt. If you watch a lift queue that bends; you'll see the same thing happening.
Gravy's first law of queuing is "If a queue bends always join towards the outside of the bend".
Skiing in France most if the time means that the second law is "When in France queue as the French do."
Any more laws we could add?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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When in Scotland, join the right queue or expect a bollocking 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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andytb, glad we were with an old pro queuing in the cairngorms, the multi line - forward shifting queue system was new to me. Could easily have got in the wrong queue 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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It is entirely acceptable to effect the release of bindings on a skiers skis who pushes in, in a ski lift queue.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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gravystuffing, Verdons Sud? Take off skis and stick to the inside? The queue there is quite often an S shape so I'm never sure which is the quicker side 
(Thank goodness its being replaced by a six seater this coming summer.)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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The queue at the M1 poma really frustrates me... It's such a simple system, yet it confuses countless individuals! If someone cannae work that system out then there's no hope!
What annoys more though, is those that cheat the system and expect to get away with it then come over all victimised when someone sets on them.
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Having never skied in Europe, I find these queue topics quite interesting.
I assume the continental queues are not simply a single line of people, with newcomers joining at the end of the line? How can a queue differ from this?
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andytb, Do you get queues for drag lifts in Scotland?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Join the back, Jack
Go with the flow, Moe
Fill all the seats, Pete
Sit down quick, Rick
Watchout for backpacks, Max
Drop the bar, Omar
Enjoy the ride, Clyde
And so on...
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| Oldmacdonald wrote: |
Having never skied in Europe, I find these queue topics quite interesting.
I assume the continental queues are not simply a single line of people, with newcomers joining at the end of the line? How can a queue differ from this? |
They are usually wide to start, narrowing towards the lift pass gates. You get a hugh bottle neck effect, Darwin's theory of the strongest survive usually comes into play....
But to add to the topic, when an obnoxious German bloke cuts in and out of the que, cutting you up in the process...Unclip his boots from his skis .
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Leeds_Skier wrote: |
| Oldmacdonald wrote: |
Having never skied in Europe, I find these queue topics quite interesting.
I assume the continental queues are not simply a single line of people, with newcomers joining at the end of the line? How can a queue differ from this? |
They are usually wide to start, narrowing towards the lift pass gates. You get a hugh bottle neck effect, Darwin's theory of the strongest survive usually comes into play....
But to add to the topic, when an obnoxious German bloke cuts in and out of the que, cutting you up in the process...Unclip his boots from his skis . |
And also with the comment... "I say old chap, would you remind removing yourself from my new skis. Thankyou old bean...." Or something to that effect.....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Leeds_Skier wrote: |
| Oldmacdonald wrote: |
Having never skied in Europe, I find these queue topics quite interesting.
I assume the continental queues are not simply a single line of people, with newcomers joining at the end of the line? How can a queue differ from this? |
They are usually wide to start, narrowing towards the lift pass gates. You get a hugh bottle neck effect, Darwin's theory of the strongest survive usually comes into play....
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That is going to bug me.
.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 12-01-11 17:32; edited 1 time in total
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Aim straight for the middle.
Look down at the front of your ski's
When a gap becomes available that's wide enough, shuffle your ski's into it.
Jab your poles into the snow at either side so no-one in your vicinity can get past
Repeat as above until you get to the bottleneck.
At that point, I find elbows usually help (in a 'gentle' way of course)
I like the theory about the application of fluid dynamics. I think I've actually noticed that happening in queue's
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You know it makes sense.
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Go in the middle of January and avoid the queues.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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........ and watch out for the ESF guy's with their French Brat Packs.
Had a massive row with one ESF instructor last year whilst queueing for a button lift after he and 50 obnoxious French kids jumped the queue.
He couldn't speak any English but got the message 
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Wed 12-01-11 17:48; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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An interesting thought. I shall be trying both the inside and outside of the queue. If there is a pylon in the middle, do you get a Karman vortex street?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Leeds_Skier wrote: |
Did you say Merde and Putain to him over and over?
I'm not sure what they translate to literally |
Literally "poo-poo" and "whore"
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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stupid banned words checker ... I didn't write "poo-poo", but you know what I mean
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Boredsurfing, the best strategy at Verdons Sud is to duck under the elastic and avoid most of the queue
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Here is another tip for joining a big Doppelmayr Gondola like Funiplagne in Plagne Centre. On another thread folk said they queued for 20 minutes at places like this during half term. They are obviously not using the right tactics. Firstly this queue bends so using the first law head for the faster moving outside of the bend. Then because this is a gondola that sweeps past in an arc make sure you line your group up abreast and not behind each other. That forms a phalanx that even the stroppiest of Gauls can't penetrate and allows you all to board simultaneously as it sweeps by. Simple.
Third law "Queue abreast when boarding a Doppelmayr"
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An Irksome wrinkle (presumably cost saving exercise) which is standard across Les Arcs:
A 6 seat lift will have 5 card-reading gates*
a 4 seat lift will have 3 card-reading gates
a 3 seat lift will have 2 card-reading gates
(go-on: check it out next time you're there)
Thus any hope of getting a full uplift rate where the distance betwen gates and embarkation is limited, is guaranteed to be almost zero, and so, so frustrating.
What is really annoying is that they are removable (they are all gone in the summer): surely having a one-to-one relationship would not be beyond the wit of man.
Hence when travelling with 3,4, or 5 others (and in particular, ankle biters) , there is simply no point in getting 'lined up' early in the process: just smile, push, slide, elbow, prevent others, unclip, knock off bobble hats, and all the usual tricks of the trade until past the gates, then look to see how you've done in competing with your group for 'first past the post'.
*At least the new Arpette has a singles Q, albeit after the gates, which mitigates empty seat syndrome somewhat.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I've barely ever had to queue before, but last week in Scheffau was pretty busy with it still being Austrian and Bavarian holidays. The queues looked huge but I never had to wait longer than 10 minutes. Samerberg Sue is brilliant at it, I followed her religiously! 
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Let rip a really smelly fart. Queue, what queue?
I tend to use the single rider lane where available when the lifts are busy. OK so me and my mates won't be sat together, but we get up the hill quicker!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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ignorance and elbows works for me 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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How about slipping a ski school tabbard on and pushing through the usual ski school side whilst making amateurish jerky movements? Or purloining an ESF jacket perhaps.
I met a couple of guys in Tignes once who were wearing ski school jackets they'd bought the year before in a deal because the design was changing. They looked just like instructors and it wasn't until I asked that they confirmed that they in fact weren't, a fact usually kept to themselves when arriving at busy lifts.
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You know it makes sense.
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Revert to the same tactics you used to use in the lunch queue at school.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Wed 12-01-11 19:34; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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There is no such thing as a queue in Europe. The phenomenon us Brits call a queue is actually a training exercise for wannabe race drivers where the object is to out-manouver anyone infront of you.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Isn't standing on the back of peoples skis and clipping them out of there bindings normal practise?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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My technique involves good deployment of ski poles, sharp stares at anyone that treads their skis on mine, utilising of the kids as door stops on the inside of us adults, good sharp elbows and not being shy about giving anyone that pushes in a piece of my mind in a tone of voice that means the language used is unimportant.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Samerberg Sue is brilliant at it
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Easiski is too - comes of long practice. With all the Italian brat racers going up the Jandri you needed to be very determined and without her we'd have taken a lot more time to get up there.
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There is no such thing as a queue in Europe.
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Rubbish - if you've only seen bad behaviour you ski in the wrong places. Boris's point is good too. I ski for weeks every season and practically never queue. The only times I've encountered some poor queue behaviour here is in the Paris school holidays (never again - sister in law was determined to come at half term). The Parisians are driven, impatient, etc etc etc. Also met up with a very unpleasant little gang of overgrown German schoolboys in Les Contamines one time. They were about 30, overweight, overbearing and over here. Most of the time, what queues there are are fine, and particularly considerate and careful with kids (family resort).
Ski instructors (not just ESF) have priority but the rule is "one for one". So they filter into the queue.
We've discussed queues before - some European resorts are apparently introducing "singles lines" for people who don't insist on travelling up the lift with the nearest and dearest. No sign of that in our area - but it would be a very good idea in the school hols. Nothing more annoying than seeing lifts going up half empty when there's a queue.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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No bad queueing behaviour observed this week in the Sella Ronda / Val Gardena resorts. To be honest, I've not seen it anywhere in years.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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laundryman, welcome back.  good trip?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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pam w, thank you - and very good. I feel I missed out on the Dolomite scenery, because the visibility was very poor most of the time. But if skiing resorts didn't get bad weather, they wouldn't be skiing resorts, so I'm cool about that. Full report here:
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=1693171#1693171
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Singles lines are good, and do work- means most chairs are always full and if you're in a bit of a hurry, normally you can get on fairly quickly even on busy lifts
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Coughing hard & continually tends to create a clear space to move in to! If you
can learn the local translation for "Sorry I have bird flu" it will help
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Obertauern Austria has had single queues on most of their lifts for years Very seldom had a need to use them though
gravystuffing, may be correct about the outside of a line though
Will check it out next week if I can find a queue
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Went skiing in Thredbo in Australia once, and they had singles queues plus someone standing just past the gates telling people which lifts to get on. Worked very well. In a slight moment of madness, I wondered why the French never did anything like it. Came to my senses, when I realised the lift queue fight is all part of the holiday for them.
My queue tactics are normally to tell my mates "see you at the top", I see enough of them during the week to not need to sit next to them for 5 minutes. Then be really aggresive to everyone else, knowing I won't met them ever again. Bad karma maybe, but it does the job.
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