 Poster: A snowHead
|
I'm bringing this up because I have a ski instructor friend/colleague who was recently wiped out really badly by an out of control boarder (could just as well have been a skier so no anti-boarder comments please) and it looks like he won't be back on skis this season as a result of the injuries.
I haven't yet worked out all the details but as I understand it the boarder wiped him out in circumstances that were clearly the boarders fault. He then seems to have apologised (to a fashion) and b*ggered off leaving my friend to ski down to base on one leg and in a great deal of pain. Once down he went to ski patrol and then was transferred to a local clinic then hospital and there appears to be extensive damage to the knee, still waiting for full details.
First off I'm interested in how other instruuctors cover themselves for season/career ending injuries like this - I have BASI insurance myself but to be honest I haven't looked into it enough to see if I'm covered for this type of thing - in fact different matter but when I had a pair of skis nicked they refused to consider the matter because I wasn't on 'holiday' - er BASI instructor insurance for *working* instructors I presume ... bl**dy useless (which reminds me I must write to BASI about that)! Anyway, do BASI or are the ski schools we work for supposed to provide any additional insurance/cover?
Secondly in circumstances like these can you take any action against the person responsible if you know who it is, and what can you do if he/she rides off like this particular individual?
What line do ski patrols typically take towards people who cause injury as a result of their recklessness?
I guess I've realised I'm actually quite ignorant about the whole issue of injuries caused by other people and I'm wondering how much the FIS safety code would actually count if a similar thing happened to me and I decided to take the matter further - I have to admit in similar circumstances I'd want sue the butt off the other party but I'm not sure I'd have a leg to stand on (no pun intended!).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Good question, i recon your screwed unless you have some special insurance for loss of income... but for medical claims you should go after the offending party.
I have to say i am always worried about this and it would be good to hear about the result of some actual cases.
we had a client get totaled by an out of control rider after a lesson (i wasnt there) but a quick thinking mate took the culprits insurance and passport details and i heard he made a claim against the other guys insurance for broken skis fortunately no medical bills
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| roga wrote: |
I'm bringing this up because I have a ski instructor friend/colleague who was recently wiped out really badly by an out of control boarder (could just as well have been a skier so no anti-boarder comments please) and it looks like he won't be back on skis this season as a result of the injuries.
I haven't yet worked out all the details but as I understand it the boarder wiped him out in circumstances that were clearly the boarders fault. He then seems to have apologised (to a fashion) and b*ggered off leaving my friend to ski down to base on one leg and in a great deal of pain. Once down he went to ski patrol and then was transferred to a local clinic then hospital and there appears to be extensive damage to the knee, still waiting for full details.
First off I'm interested in how other instruuctors cover themselves for season/career ending injuries like this - I have BASI insurance myself but to be honest I haven't looked into it enough to see if I'm covered for this type of thing - in fact different matter but when I had a pair of skis nicked they refused to consider the matter because I wasn't on 'holiday' - er BASI instructor insurance for *working* instructors I presume ... bl**dy useless (which reminds me I must write to BASI about that)! Anyway, do BASI or are the ski schools we work for supposed to provide any additional insurance/cover?
Secondly in circumstances like these can you take any action against the person responsible if you know who it is, and what can you do if he/she rides off like this particular individual?
What line do ski patrols typically take towards people who cause injury as a result of their recklessness?
I guess I've realised I'm actually quite ignorant about the whole issue of injuries caused by other people and I'm wondering how much the FIS safety code would actually count if a similar thing happened to me and I decided to take the matter further - I have to admit in similar circumstances I'd want sue the butt off the other party but I'm not sure I'd have a leg to stand on (no pun intended!). |
You don't say where this happened - I don't know all the laws of different countries but I suspect the location is relevant.
If you are injured you can and should take action against whoever caused it - your insurance company will want to even if you do not. If the other party skis off it can be very hard, but if you can identify them or get witnesses who can help identify them then you should try and get the details and involve the police if neccessary.
Ski patrols can take a very hard line against people who cause serious injury by behaving in a reckless way. I have heard (from a patroller at Whistler) of patrollers chasing, catching and detaining people in very rare cases. In one case that I know of the police were called on the slopes. I have also seen police on the slopes in Switzerland once, but have no idea of the circumstances.
I don't work as an instructor so I can't really comment on the insurance aspect for a working instructor, but normally you would look to your employer to cover you for accidents whilst at work rather than have personal insurance for that (this may be why BASI did not cover your ski theft whilst you were working).
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 11-01-11 12:55; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Someone wrote in another thread about producing a digital camera and photographing their passport or ID which is a worthwhile idea if the picture shows the details clearly enough. It seems to me that it would also be a very good idea to photograph the miscreant too so that ski patrol could look out for them as it would seem to me that ski outfits are fairly static over a holiday period unless you are walloped by someone with an endless pocket. If someone skis off without an exchange of details I should think you are stuffed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| sah wrote: |
| You don't say where this happened - I don't know all the laws of different countries but I suspect the location is relevant. |
I'm interested in finding out what the rules are in more than just the country this happened in though but for the record it was in Scotland.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| sah wrote: |
| and what can you do if he/she rides off like this particular individual |
I have "had words" with a couple of individuals in the past
When I ski in a group im always on the lookout for dangerous Riders(Have to say its 90% boarders in the category)
So if im at the bottom looking up and spot an incident I can have words with when they come past or if im above and see it happening im down there or chasing
One guy I played catch up with was suprised I got to him (going as fast/dangerous as he did when he wiped out first person and nearly getting another). I don't know if he didnt understand(was french) the word Di** Head but he did the same again.... and was supprised again when I made him stop again. He did understand "I will cripple you so you will never wear a board again if I ever see you go that fast again", Followed him the rest of the way down and gave him a look while skiing upto the liftie (said hello, nice day to him) 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
roga, I think the instructor in question would need to know the boarder's identity, contact details etc and discover whether or not the boarder had public liability insurance as part of their travel (or other) insurance. That route would require litigation against the boarder and insurance companies would be involved in that. Or he/she could just sue the boarder in the hope that the boarder could pay up if found liable - but the cost of doing that would probably be prohibitive and depending on which country, might be very difficult and non-productive. In any case, it would take a while to sort out, probably years. Even then, it would most likely cover compensation for the injury itself and not necessarily loss of earnings. For that, your friend should ideally have some kind of income protection policy but I'm assuming that isn't the case because I have never heard of it for an instructor.
It might be possible to sue the resort of course (always go after the one who does have insurance) if, for example, the piste layout or signage or whatever could be argued contributed to the accident.
I know one instructor who was hit by an out of control skier, suffered head injuries and basically had to relearn loads of stuff, and, despite it being a nailed-on case, he still has never seen a penny a decade on.
Sounds like the best your friend can hope for is a speedy recovery.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
I have BASI insurance myself but to be honest I haven't looked into it enough to see if I'm covered for this type of thing - in fact different matter but when I had a pair of skis nicked they refused to consider the matter because I wasn't on 'holiday' - er BASI instructor insurance for *working* instructors I presume ... bl**dy useless (which reminds me I must write to BASI about that)! Anyway, do BASI or are the ski schools we work for supposed to provide any additional insurance/cover?
|
When you say you have BASI insurance do you mean the BASI liability insurance that is part of your membership, or the BASI travel insurance? Did you try to make a claim against one of these, if so which one? Thanks
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
It's not just ski instructors, surely anyone who has a bad accident skiing which leads to a lengthy period off work would be considerably out of pocket. I would think the only option in all circumstances is to have income replacement insurance. Be careful though, I really had to shop around to find such insurance which covered both skiing and motorcycling accidents.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
roga, add your skis to your "items away from home" on your home insurance, it's how most cyclists cover their bikes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Comparing and contrasting with the situation on public roads AIUI:
1) Road legal vehicles are easily uniquely identifiable by their registration mark.
2) To avoid us having to sue each other insurance is compulsory, as is the exchange of contact details to allow an insurance or private settlement in the event of a collision.
3) No liability for loss of income is generally accepted as part of the insurance claim, though a separate civil claim can be pursued.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
roga, In Andorran ski schools you are actually covered by the government for both a percentage of your medical bills and wages. The last time I was injured I had to pay nothing for the medical costs, received 70% of my average wages over the previous seasons and attended free physio sessions. It is something similar to National Insurance in the UK, but you only pay about 4% a month for it and the longer you have worked, the more benefits you get. The best part about it is if your recovery takes longer than the season lasts, they will keep paying you and also provide help for rent etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
I have looked into income protection insurance as an instructor after last season lasted a day and a half due to injury, but all the quotes I have had have been huge. They are essentially wanting 10% of my income to cover me against injury so decided not worth it. Have to be prepared for injury but dont think will miss one in ever 10 seasons so not worth the policy cost, just need to keep a bit of money aside incase.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
roga, ah, I see, thanks for explaining. I think that's a pretty standard condition for travel insurance i'm afraid, that you actually have to be away from home, not just at work! As said above, you could see if you're covered on your household contents insurance.
| Quote: |
Whilst you're here beanie1 can you clarify what the liability insurance cover is for - as I understand it it's not for personal injury, rather it covers us if there's a claim against us. Is there anything insurance wise that BASI recommend we have to cover us in the event of personal injury?
|
Yes, the BASI liability insurance is a professional indemnity insurance, it doesn't cover you for personal injury. I understand BASI have looked into some kind of income protection insurance, I'll find out what happened. By its nature this type of insurance can be quite expensive though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| nbt wrote: |
| roga, add your skis to your "items away from home" on your home insurance, it's how most cyclists cover their bikes. |
Thanks for mentioing that, I'll look into it.
freestyleandy, the Andorran situation sounds pretty good - does anyone know if any other countries offer similar?
| beanie1 wrote: |
| roga, ah, I see, thanks for explaining. I think that's a pretty standard condition for travel insurance i'm afraid, that you actually have to be away from home, not just at work! As said above, you could see if you're covered on your household contents insurance. |
Yeah, I was just moaning really  I was silly enough at the time to somehow think that BASI insurance might be a little more flexible but what wound me up a bit was firstly their insistence they didn't do insurance for ski instructors and then, when I'd insisted they check their records and they admitted I was insured with them their insistence on describing any trips I made as "holidays" despite my repeatedly saying I don't do holidays I do working trips or training trips which I don't think was too crazy a concept for them to accept given the insurance is supposed to be for instructors! Maybe I'm just an awkward grumpy pedant eh! 
| Quote: |
| Yes, the BASI liability insurance is a professional indemnity insurance, it doesn't cover you for personal injury. |
Yeah I thought that was the case.
| Quote: |
| I understand BASI have looked into some kind of income protection insurance, I'll find out what happened. By its nature this type of insurance can be quite expensive though. |
I'd be interesting to hear what BASI offer and what they recommend on this matter.
Also if BASI have any comments on what instructors should do in cases where they've been injured because of the irresponsible actions of others I'd be interested to hear them 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
roga, I'll ask the office.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Bad luck. There are loads of guides and some instructors who will never work again due to injury. Heartbreaking for them. French TV did a program about guides with career ending injuries a year ago, really sad.
From experience in France the ski patrol will shrug their shoulders and say "we are not ze police monsieur, what do you want us to do". Well put down your mocha lattes over easy, stub out yer fags get of yer fecking fesses and do your jobs and go patrol.
You should be able to sue someone and hope they have 3rd party insurance but you will need witnesses.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
I know one British instructor in the Alps who wears knee braces (the high tech expensive kind) all the time in order to protect her legs from collision injury, not because they are already injured. Is that a sensible approach? Would it work?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Quote: |
Anyway, do BASI or are the ski schools we work for supposed to provide any additional insurance/cover?
|
BASI have already set up a partnership with an insurance broker who is building an insurance cover for BASI members that should cover them for these types of things (injury, loss of income etc). BASI expect to launch this before the end of this winter season.
BASI are also going to look into some advice on what to do if injured in this way, but I'm sure you appreciate this is a complex legal issue with various potential pitfalls, so will have to be extremely careful in what advice is given to members in this regard. Therefore it it likely to be sometime before there is a formal response on this.
roga, I have passed on your comments on the call centre's lack of knowledge of the BASI travel insurance, and I'm sure you'll be pleased to know it has been discussed at the highest level between BASI and their contact at Dogtag. Not an excuse, but it is down to the sheer volume of different policies etc that the call centre handling the claims deal with. Your skis nicked in the UK still won't be covered on a travel insurance policy though
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
). As it stands though the insurance is a complete waste of time for anyone actually living full time in the mountains, at the moment it's okay for me because I'm there for a few weeks and then back here so my main address is still away from the mountains - as soon as I move there I'll drop the insurance because it'll be a waste frankly and will have to find another way of coverting myself (suggestions welcome but it'd be good if BASI had an insurance policy for this too).
