Another 'first timer' looking for advice...

A snowHead

Hey guys,

I'm looking for some advice and recommendations on resorts and how to go about booking my first ski holiday! As a bit of background, I'm a regular wakeboarder through the summer months and I've picked up snowboarding at the Snodome relatively quickly, but my girlfriend is a complete newbie to skiing (and would prefer to ski rather than board) but she has water-skied before so I'm hoping won't struggle too much getting her legs!

Firstly, I'm completely overwhelmed with resorts but we're looking to go sometime in March and ideally want to keep things as cheap as possible including tuition when we're out there. I've looked at some 'inclusive' deals through Crystal, Nielson, Thomas Cook, Thomson etc. but wondered if people think this is an overpriced way to do it? Am I better booking everything separate?

I notice the cost for both of us (on average for a weeks holiday) including absolutely everything from tuition to hire to passes is pushing £1900+... some mates have told me that's ridiculous, go to Italy and others have said that's about right for most resorts...

Figured some may have some advice here on the cheaper resorts to be going to (we're not too fussed about nightlife and don't mind a very quiet resort) but would just love to go somewhere to get on some snow and enjoy ourselves!

Any advice on companies to book with or whether to book tuition when in resort etc. would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers! Very Happy

A snowHead

Welcome to snowHead

Anatonic,

I think as beginners any resort with a good ski school would probably be fine.

France and Switzerland can be expensive when in resort, Austria, Andorra and Italy less so (never been to Italy, but I'm told this is the case).

If you are both beginners to skiing holidays, and going without a group who may know the ropes then I'd probably recommend going with a tour operator. It can be quite daunting having to find the ski hire shop, work out where ski school is, collecting lift passes, work out how to get around, which lifts to use, what bus to get on (if you are a bit of a trek from the lifts)...... it's even worse if you end up in resort late at night and have to rush to get kit before ski school on the first morning.

£1.9k does sound quite a lot for 2 people to go in March. To give you an idea for 3 of us (2 adults and a kid) we paid £2k for half board hotel, flights, transfers, lift passes, kit (3 x skis, 2 x boots) and lessons for 2 of us - in the Easter holidays, which should be more expensive than when you plan to go.. This was to Pas de la Casa in Andorra, it's not the prettiest of towns, but the ski area is great and the snow was good.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

£1900 for two people including everything (lift passes, equipment hire, lessons?) is pretty reasonable for March in a major resort.

The people who are telling you that you can do it much cheaper are either looking at cheap weeks (either next week or right at the end of the season now) or not looking at the total cost including lift passes etc. Anyone can find a deal for £500 each, but it won't include stuff that will cost you when you get to the resort.

Using a Tour Operator isn't an overpriced way to do it. It's an easier way to do it, especially for a first trip because they organise everything for you, and there is a slight increase in cost for the guarantees and ease that come with that.

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Anatonic, welcome to snowHeads

There are, no doubt, ways to reduce that cost. DIY may be one of them, another may be to wait for any deals with TOs, so long as you're happy to be flexible about where you go. Italy and Austria may prove to be less expensive than France in terms of additional costs like tuition, food, drink - but only as a rough rule of thumb.

If you can wait until the latter part of March, not only will the weather be potentially milder, but the days longer. Possibly a consideration if taking lessons and standing around a bit. The downside may well be that snow conditions could soften up - would recommend aiming for traditionally higher resorts to compensate to some degree.

Personally, having experienced DIY and TO packages, I've never really managed to bring the whole thing in for less than around £700-£800 pp (today's prices). And that doesn't include beer/going out money. That said, 2 season's ago, I managed a weeks half board in an hotel, flights, transfers for £330 last week of March. Add in the ski pass and (top range) ski hire and it cost £600 pp. Was quite last minute though.

In The Piste, for example, there was a TO offering a package for £500 for 2 people, SC, flights and transfers. Lets say ski pass at around £170, ski/boot hire at around £70, you're already at a shade under £500 pp before food/entertainment. So savings can be made - just need to shop around.

I'm sure there'll be no shortage of advice. Whatever you do, have a great time snowHead

Edit: the advice to go with a TO first time around is probably worth considering IMO, although my first ever trip was DIY. On reflection, a TO package could have made things a little more straightforward.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Anatonic, welcome to snowheads.

I'd agree that booking a package is a good idea for your first holiday - it can indeed all be a bit daunting otherwise.

I'd say you should be able to do it for a bit less than £1900 but no, that's not ridiculous by any means.

If you would like to keep costs down a bit, but still get "everything included" you could look at going with UCPA, a French organisation set up to promote sport with young people. Easiest way to acces their holidays if you are based in the UK is through Action Outdoors. http://www.action-outdoors.co.uk/

You'd need to look carefully at the different centres and dates. Not all have double rooms (some are just small dorm rooms, which is probably not what you're after) and some don't do beginners. But if you can find the right place, then full board, equipment, passes and (very good) tuition are all included in the costs so you really do know what you're going to pay. with a standard package you could end up paying quite a bit extra on lunches if you're not careful.

If you end up going to France, try to pick the second half of March - until 13 March French resorts will generally be rather busy, as it's French school holiday time.

I once met an expert water-skier on a holiday. He and wife were both beginners, but he really fancied himself all round, and thought that as a water skier it would be second nature to him. Didn't work out like that. His wife listened to the instructor and got on well, really enjoyed it. He didn't listen, kept crashing around, hated the fact that she was better than him, decided skiing wasn't for him!

There's a keen wakeboarder in our family who has just taken to snowboarding like duck to water. I don't think waterskiing reads across into skiing in anything like the same way. But being a girl, your GF will probably listen to what her instructor is telling her and get along just fine. wink

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I love looking at holidays, so just took this is a challenge. Without doing any bargain searching I've found a week in Pas de la Casa for 2 half board, with Crystal (not everyone's cup of tea, but we've found them to be fine), beginners ski pack, beginners snowboard pack (these include lift pass, kit and lessons), winter sport insurance - going out 20th March for £1,310 from Gatwick.

No idea what the hotel is like, or whether you can fly from Gatwick, but gives you an idea of what you can get.

Have a look at the Andorra threads to see what it's like. As I said, we went last Easter and had a great time.

Might be worth popping into a travel agent, or calling up an agent like Iglu, telling them what you are after and seeing what they can sort for you. If you are flexible on location, and what week you go in March then they should be able to find you a deal.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

hammerite, superb - can I put an order in too wink

Not a bad deal to be honest. There are also plenty of BASI qualified ski instructors out there traditionally, some good benign slopes for beginners plus some slightly harder stuff for progressors. We did a Crystal package deal to Arinsal when the SO was on her 1st week - hotel was OK to be honest, food fine and skiing ideal for her.

After all it is free

I think going with a TO first time out is a good move - just makes everything simpler and allows you to focus on skiing. As a total beginner I was really glad of this.

We went with Crystal for my first ski holiday and stayed in a chalet. They can be a bit hit and miss but on that occasion, were fine.

Resorts - I learned in Meribel which has a superb beginner area and a couple of excellent ski schools. If going as a beginner again now I'd stay in Mottaret again (cheaper) and avoid the French school holidays (ie not before 12 March).

But there are plenty of smaller alternatives which would suit you equally well in your first week. The Where to Ski and Snowboard website (http://www.wtss.co.uk/) has good, unbiased resort overviews and will give you a much more balanced impression than the brochures.

Where to Ski and Snowboard is OK as far as it goes, but it's selective - just 32 Austrian resorts and 50 French ones (both countries have many, many, more). And it's not just that they have chosen the biggest (which would be logical, even if it would miss out lots of nice places). The selection is a bit idiosyncratic - some quite limited areas are included, bigger ones left out. But it's a decent starting point.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Thanks for the warm welcome all!

Andorra certainly is worth a look and Gatwick is our ideal airport. People have answered my question about Crystal as I wasn't sure if the 'essentials' package included passes, equip and tuition as they then list these below as separate options.

I'm going to continue searching tonight and see what else I can find. If I travelled out around 12th March would this be after the local holidays then? I assume Pas de la Casa will probably be alright for snow at that time given the slightly higher altitude?

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Hi

I would second sticking with an operator, any of the well known ones, like Crystal will be fine, but shop around. Ask your TA, they often get offers in that don't show up in brochures, certainly try Iglu, they will also usually match any price that you get elsewhere. Crystal also usually have discounts for booking on line, so do your homework first and then book direct.

You need to decide if you want a hotel, and if so go for half board, trapsing around in the evenings isn't great when you are tired and your legs ache. Or whether you want a chalet, where you could meet others that your girlfriend could ski with, especially if you are going to zoom ahead. There is nothing worse than having someone who progresses quicker than you!

Please please ensure she has 'proper' lessons, at the least for one fully day or mornings if not full days, I know too many first timers who have been put off skiing, by not getting the basics on the first day. By the way, I water skied and ice skated, but found skiing extremely difficult at first!!!!

I don't think your price is incredibly expensive if you have costed in transfers, ski passes, ski hire etc. and that is half board. Yes you could get cheaper by a DIY holiday, but it can be stressful putting it all together and hoping it works!

Personally I would avoid France, having just got back from the Three Valleys, having not been for several years, it was very expensive and there is just as good skiing out there at better prices. All resorts have good beginner areas. Look on Piste Maps for plenty of Greens and Blues, which you should be doing by the end of the week, with maybe the odd red thrown in. Don't expect your girlfriend to progress as quick as you, in my experience, women have a better sense of 'self preservation' and then to ski more cautiously than guys who just want to 'get down' without worrying quite how they look - sorry a big generalisation, don't flame me for it!!! Confused

but it does tend to be true!

Enjoy your holiday, it would be interesting to know what you decide.

Best of luck.

snow reports

I think a trip to the travel agent will also be in order to see what they can come up with. There's a good deal with Crystal to Obergurgl in Austria (Hotel Sportiv?) comes to around £1400 all in in mid-march which isn't bad!

I'll be sure to keep you updated on what we decide... Smile

Welcome to snowheads

!

I'm relatively new to skiing, just about to take my 3rd trip in the next few weeks. I have experience of both DIY and booking packages. As others have mentioned, there are pros and cons of each method. Here is my experience:
1st trip was to Winter Park, Colorado. We originally had a package to Banff booked but the airline went bust and we had to cancel. Flights & hotel for 10 nights cost around £1400. Car hire cost £250. Learn to ski package cost about £150 for one day (incl. lift pass/ski hire). We then had to hire skis/pay for lift pass each day we were there and with hindsight this cost us a lot of money. Probably about £200 for ski hire for 2 of us for the rest of the trip and it was about $70 a day each for the lift pass!!! = lots of money. I reckon this worked out at about £2500 for everything (excl. spends)
Last year we went to Panorama, British Columbia. There was a deal on the Inghams website. The holiday cost £800 for flights/accommodation & ski hire for 7 days. I stupidly forgot about pre-booking the lift pass and we ended up paying the window rates and it was at least £80 more per person to do this! The 6 day lift pass cost us almost as much as the flight/accommodation!

This year is probably the best value for money out of all of them.
We are going for 10 nights and have paid a total of £1850 for:
Flights/accomodation, Ski hire, 3 days of lessons for 2 people, 9 day lift pass for 2 people (which alone is probably about £700)

Lessons I have learnt is that it has always been cheaper in my experience to book extras such as lift pass/lessons/ski hire before you go (and it has always been cheaper through the TO). This might not be true for everywhere though, not sure how it works out in big resorts in Europe where there are loads of ski hire shops/ski schools.

My next piece of advice if you are beginning is to choose a resort with plenty of beginner runs. We had a friend join us last year in Panorama who was a complete beginner to skiing and she was pretty much confined to the same 200m green 'nursery' slope for the first 3 days, basically because the other 'greens' were either closed or too steep for a complete beginner. It was a shame that she never got to travel around the mountain as much as the rest of us thats all.

Wishing you a fab trip!

You know it makes sense.

Anatonic,
One thing to be careful about with some learn to ski packages is that the lift pass that they include can be a lot more restrictive than an adventurous beginner may want.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

To add to all the above, I would leave it until closer too the time and see what comes up in the late deals. As you are only 2 and don't have any strong opinions you've nothing much to lose. I'd have a think about hotel or chalet - I've always preferred chalets but you can get unlucky with your new housemates and find it tricky to get along, if there are two of you and a 10 person stag party for instance....I wouldn't self cater on a first trip, skiing the first week or so is tiring you don't want to be forced to eat out/cook every night.

My tip? Look for accomodation which is ski in/ski out to the base of the slopes where lessons meet - it makes a HELL of a difference on your first trip. Book lessons from your first day, don't try and go it alone - inevitably you find the steepest blue run in resort in the first hour and give yourself a heart attack!

Personally I'd also go tour operator the first couple of times, even though I DIY nowadays. Crystal transfers are a 'mare but they are fine otherwise, first choice have always been good for me as has ski france. YSEski are awesome, totalski are fine, if you fancy a _bit_ of diy Zenith have some good deals with everything except the flight atm, as do skiamis.

Avoid massive resorts if you can (paradiski, val disere, 3 valleys) just because the lift passes are expensive and there is no point as you won't make full use of it. Resorts? Montgenevre is my suggestion, maybe soldeu (if you like hotels over chalets), flaine - I'm sure plenty of others would be great too!

Don't worry too much you have to be pretty unlucky for it not to be fun no matter where you end up going!

aj xx

A snowHead

A snowHead

Anatonic, more advice than you can shake a stick at there!!

One more though..... If you deal with an agent over the phone make sure it's a company who specialises in ski holidays. If you are going into a travel agents, say First Choice then ask to deal with the ski advisor (most will have someone who knows a bit more about skiing). This should mean that the person looking knows exactly what to look for, and exactly what any extras cover, include and exclude.

We've had it in the past where the person hasn't known much about skiing, and we've had to prompt them by asking about things that they should really have put forward themselves.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I'll see if we can wait till a bit nearer the time - the only issue we face is my girlfriend works in the NHS and usually has to give a good couple of months notice for holiday or else her shifts / rota is already in place to do things last minute.

I couldn't have asked for more - you guys have been extremely helpful and it's good to get a range of advice and experiences. It's exactly why I signed up here - thanks again! Smile

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Try Pila in Italy it is a small resort but with a great beginners area.

Book cheap flights to Turin and then Carole at pilaski.co.uk will do the rest for you.

You will have a great time where ever you go. Another couple hooked on this crazy fun.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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lol and I go to check igluski and they have a sale on March chalets: http://www.igluski.com/chalet-sale---save-up-to-50-in-march--april-_o606
on a set of chalets I've actually been to oddly...if anyone wants reviews on the les martins or laitelet let me know Toofy Grin

This one http://www.igluski.com/la-rosiere/chalet-bizet_p22528?holidayid=29840108 I haven't tried but is a smaller resort, 150m to ski school £410 - that's the sort of thing you are looking for (although it's a week later than I'd like). I'd imagine the best prices you are likely to see later are around £350 for the earlier week, but who knows. £420 chalet, Ski hire £80, lift pass £170, lessons £130 = ~£800 each total + spending money.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

You will get a deal for mid March no problem, don't worry about availability. Why not agree which week you are going to go, book the time off work and then leave it till mid to late February to actually book the holiday.

I'd agree with everyone else - for your 1st holiday definitely go with a package. I'd also thoroughly recommend a catered chalet. It's very sociable in the evenings and more relaxing to sit in your own cosy lounge area (and most chalet hosts are fairly flexible with the wine rations!).

I've mostly skied France and do generally find that it is cheaper to arrange ski hire separately from the package. However again for a stress-free first time I would probably just say pay the little extra and get the TO to organise it all for you.
Enjoy!

After all it is free

Help!!

Another 'first timer' looking for advice...

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