 Poster: A snowHead
|
What do you want from yours? Flicking through the rails in TK Maxx, again, I never cease to be amazed at how ill-designed they are.
First and foremost I want a proper, doubled over zip front so as to keep the weather out. Zip up, flap over, second flap goes over first flap, velcro. Not much to ask is it; any proper mountain jacket would have that - but a ski jacket... no, it might have just a zip and no flaps. I reckon about 1% of jackets have these.
Vents - just a couple of extra zips; how could you not? 60% only
Breathable.
A hood. And the hood should tidy out of the way when not required (i.e. most of the time). Just an extra bit of velcro will do that - you don't have to build a pouch for it. 5% of jackets?
Pockets with zips - plenty of them. (2 bottles of water, a spare hat (balaclava), spare gloves, choc. bar, ski lock, camera, goggles.) Half of jackets are short on that.
And the best thing I ever saw in a jacket was a poacher's pocket at the back which went all the way along. Perfect for taking off jumpers if it's too hot, but not needing to carry a pack.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
A hood that comes off.... and is designed so that you can actually see out from under it when it is up.
A pocket on the sleeve for handsfree pass.
Big tags on the zips so I can do them up with gloves on.
Also why are they so big? If I get one long enough, chances are there is "room for one more inside" ... are the jacket manufacturers not aware of that newfangled microfleece etc? We aren't wearing fishermens' jumpers underneath any more 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
any proper mountain jacket would have that
|
Sounds like you are shopping at the wrong place for a proper mountain jacket. See Peak Performance, TNF, Kjus Formula, Arcteryx, Haglofs, Millet etc. Plenty of great jackets out there but you wont see many of these at Tacky Micks. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Markymark29 wrote: |
Sounds like you are shopping at the wrong place for a proper mountain jacket. See Peak Performance, TNF, Kjus Formula, Arcteryx, Haglofs, Millet etc. Plenty of great jackets out there but you wont see many of these at Tacky Micks. |
I'm sorry, but this is a design and construction point. All these jackets whether Spyder or TK Maxx own brand are made in the same place (China) from very similar materials. For an extra 50p of materials/time you can have a properly built jacket. No need for a premium brand name - I'd guess that at least 50% of the cost in a "premium" brand is for marketing. You can be a brand victim all you like - it rains sometimes when skiing, so make the thing waterproof.
I went into Blacks and Costswolds and didn't see anything that was any better.
£400 http://www.arcteryx.com/Product.aspx?EN/Mens/Ski-Snowboard/Sabre-SV-Jacket#Jackets and an exposed zip on the front to let wind/rain through. Bonkers. Even if the zip is entirely waterproof, the moment you undo it the water will get through. Fashion over substance.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
James the Last, OK crack-on................
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All these jackets whether Spyder or TK Maxx own brand are made in the same place (China) from very similar materials
[/quote]
James the Last, I always suspected this, do you know it to be a fact? My teenage son went to China on a school trip and came back with a, erm, counterfeit ski jacket bearing a well known eight-legged logo. Now I dont condone counterfeiting, especially where it is depriving someone, e.g. a copyright owner, of a return on their creativity (e.g., hooky DVDs etc)
But where the counterfeit is actually just an overrun sold out of the back door by the Chinese manufacturer, who is being paid a couple of quid for something that retails in Europe for £300, the morality is a lttle muddied IMO. I have looked very hard at this jacket and I genuinely cannot tell it apart from the real thing except some of the stitching is a bit iffy. I think it may be a "second".
Sorry to stray off the thread but it is an interesting point you make.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| James the Last wrote: |
| Markymark29 wrote: |
Sounds like you are shopping at the wrong place for a proper mountain jacket. See Peak Performance, TNF, Kjus Formula, Arcteryx, Haglofs, Millet etc. Plenty of great jackets out there but you wont see many of these at Tacky Micks. |
I'm sorry, but this is a design and construction point. All these jackets whether Spyder or TK Maxx own brand are made in the same place (China) from very similar materials. For an extra 50p of materials/time you can have a properly built jacket. |
Did you consider that the extra cost was because they had to pay a designer who knew what they were doing or for research into what people want?
Also TK Max isn't a great place to test your theory since it is full of end of line crap that nobody wanted last season at full price. By definition its in TK Max because it doesn't have the features (though you do get the odd gem when a buyer somewhere got their sums wrong and had to offload the good stuff).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
James the Last, buy a stiff sailing jacket then. I live in the Pacific North West, home to the Arc'teyrx brand - the SV range (Severe Weather) is arguably some of the best gear you can get - and some of the wettest weather in the world. Every extra piece of material you add to a jacket the heavier it gets, you might as well go skiing in a tent.
You're struggling with market economics if you can't see *why* you have to pay more to get more.
sanman, not a second, the seconds are sold here at about 40-60% off RRP, I've seen the fakes and there's a reason they're cheap. Same for the TNF. Falling for the "it comes from the same factory" line is the reason there is a market for this stuff...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
a red one!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
the jacket and the price you are looking for doesnt exist .you have to change your way of thinking
you cant have it all
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
James,
I'd imagine it's because people want different things.
I’m quite happy with a single zip, (storm flaps are heavy and faffy with big mitts on), I hate roll away hoods, (and I can’t believe people ever want detachable hoods – madness) and detest lots of pockets (2 only, plus a mesh pocket inside).
There are plenty of jackets that fit my criteria!
In reply to others,
Not all TKMaxx stuff is seconds, end of lines, etc. They do have stuff made for them specifically using cheaper fabrics so they can be sold at the price point they want, in the same way Go Outdoors do. Not everything, but some softgoods from certain brands.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| James the Last wrote: |
Pockets with zips - plenty of them. (2 bottles of water, a spare hat (balaclava), spare gloves, choc. bar, ski lock, camera, goggles |
You're planning to carry all that in your jacket? No chance. What you want, my old china, is a back pack.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
[quote="Flet©h"]
| James the Last wrote: |
Also TK Max isn't a great place to test your theory since it is full of end of line crap that nobody wanted last season at full price. By definition its in TK Max because it doesn't have the features (though you do get the odd gem when a buyer somewhere got their sums wrong and had to offload the good stuff). |
Yep the bodged buys and production samples make TK worth a visit, have had plenty of current season and even advanced samples of next years kit from them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| sanman wrote: |
| James the Last, I always suspected this, do you know it to be a fact? . |
Look for the "made in China" label. I am not saying that they're all made in the same factory. I'm not saying that the "fake" North Faces are made in the same factory as the real ones. But, they're all made in China. They labour costs are pretty much the same whether real premium, real budget or fake ($1?) the material costs the same ($5?). Some fake jackets are (reputedly) as good as the real ones; some will kill you.
I don't buy the "they had to design them" argument. They all had to be designed... and the easiest way to make a cheap design is to take hold of a top-of-the-range jacket and start from there.
I note that galpinos loves his hood flapping around when it's not down; horses for courses. TK Maxx is super, I've a lovely pair of Goretex ski trousers that came from there; I'm just waiting on the jacket.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| James the Last wrote: |
| I don't buy the "they had to design them" argument. They all had to be designed... and the easiest way to make a cheap design is to take hold of a top-of-the-range jacket and start from there. |
I'm no expert on sourcing technical clothing from China but AFAIK there are two ways to go. Either design the product, spec the materials and go find a manufacturer to make to your spec or give them an idea and say "I want 1,000 like that for £xx each". The first way is much more expensive as you still have to have a design and R&D budget, but you end up with a better product. The second way has very low overheads but...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
It's got to be a 1986 FS25 Nevica smock, armed to the teeth with Goretex, 'critically taped' seams and subtle styling, as Nevica only knew how. Despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, these jackets are superior and I feel a certain smugness that I have a true original whilst the trendy twenty-somethings who are snowploughing about with their white boy rastas and rizlas are wearing mere retro mimmicks of the real thing.
RIP Nevica, even if it's alive under the Mike Ashley empire!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| James the Last wrote: |
| Even if the zip is entirely waterproof, the moment you undo it the water will get through. Fashion over substance. |
Having a laugh? That's like opening the sunroof in the rain and expecting not to get wet 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
How do I want my jacket? Simple please. As waterproof and breathable as possible. Good drawstrings to tighten the fit. Not too many pockets - I prefer to keep things in my pack or salopette pockets (maybe one on the wrist for lift passes, but then it's safer to keep them in the salopettes too). Simple zip - extra flaps in the way are just extra faff. Loose hood, I don't like the extra bulk rolled up at my neck. Powder skirt is nice but not neccessary. Pit zips. Fairly snug fit. Nice bright colour. Oh, and wrist cuffs that are easy to get over my glove cuffs then tighten down.
My current jacket gets close, but no pit zips. Hasn't been an issue so far, but may have to swap for my soft shell in spring.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 5-01-11 11:16; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Even my £50 Trespass jacket from TK Maxx had a flap over the zip. Can't see what all the fuss is about. I've had a few jackets, I've worn them all a lot, they've all done the job. I daresay if I was contemplating a 60 day hike bivouacking in the Andes it would be different.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Just give me one where I can still see when the hood is up!!!
Seriously, you would need to have a head like Mr Potato head to fill these things out...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
James the Last, I used to have the old fashioned flapped zips. Now have the new waterproof zips with a tiny flap. Much less weight, just as wind and water proof. And dispite my doubts they have never let me down and I use the same jacket for ice climbing and mountaineering.
Mac22, Mountain Equipment Changabang has a hood that not only folds away into the pocket but it swivels with the head so doesn't obscure your view. Being mainly a climbing jacket it is designed to fit over a helmet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I want (think this might be a new concept) a flap on the wrist held with either velcro or a press-stud, to which I can attach a watch with some sort of strap/band under it (without its own strap). A bit like those covers you see on old military watches.
No more taking off gloves, undoing jacket wrist straps, rolling up fleeces, etc... Lift the flap and see the time!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
I ditch my hoods. I wear a helmet with, if it's cold and horrible, a balaclava underneath. Just ordinary sort of skiing - granted if you are a hard core type you need something a bit more special.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
+1 for ME Changabang, only hood I've found that works. Don't think you'll find one in TK Maxx though
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
I just want a new one of my several-year-old Columbia jacket - I've been looking for the same spec for several seasons and haven't bought yet. Key features: two outer pockets at breast level (one for glasses, lift pass and map, the other for money, silk glove liners and sun cream) as well as lower pockets for gloves. Hood and ideally a zip-out inner jacket. The shortage of pockets is really stopping me buying.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
beeorchid, I've got a bog-standard Columbia jacket too. Cheap as chips in the sale. It's not too thick - I prefer to layer up if necessary, but tend to run warm anyway. I bought it for one year, on the grounds that it wasn't too much to waste. That was about 4 years ago, and it's still perfectly serviceable.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Flet©h wrote: |
Also TK Max isn't a great place to test your theory since it is full of end of line crap that nobody wanted last season at full price. By definition its in TK Max because it doesn't have the features (though you do get the odd gem when a buyer somewhere got their sums wrong and had to offload the good stuff). |
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=1124851#1124851
Halti, top of range, immaculate, £70. I even managed to ruin a man's holiday and marriage. That's how good that jacket was.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Ah, a Lancer front. I think they used to put them on jacketets in the eighties. zip up at one side and fold down and popper open to show the inner zip if it's hot or you want to pose. Good for lift journeys when you need the double layer of insulation.
Possibly the only way to get what you want is to design it, buy the fabrics from somewhere in Runcorn (Mountain fabrics ?) and get someone to run it up for you.
Something that doesn't ride up please. There's no point in a long jacket if it is cut so that it pulls all the other layer up and leaves a gap.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| James the Last wrote: |
Breathable.
Pockets with zips - plenty of them. (2 bottles of water, a spare hat (balaclava), spare gloves, choc. bar, ski lock, camera, goggles.) Half of jackets are short on that.
And the best thing I ever saw in a jacket was a poacher's pocket at the back which went all the way along. Perfect for taking off jumpers if it's too hot, but not needing to carry a pack. |
you realise that stuffing pockets will stop that section of fabric from breathing? unless the pocket is backed by mesh, you have a double layer of fabric which will reduce breathability no matter what
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Storm Flaps went out with the Ark, you won't see many "proper mountain jackets" with them. Waterproof zips do the same job for a lot less weight and faff.
Vents - check!
Breathable - check! (over-rated though - if you're really working, you'll sweat in any jacket).
Hood - I used to always look for removable hoods, but gave that up a long time ago. Always take a decent fixed hood. Can't say I've ever even noticed it's there when snowboarding/skiing and it's not in use.
Pockets with zips - check! But chest ones are best, so you can get at them without having to undo the waist strap on your pack.
Poacher's Pocket - oh dear.... 
If pushed, I'll take another one of my now 7 year-old Burton AK Continuum Fuse that I managed to buy for £50 plus a pair of Nike trainers!
Welded seams (no stitching or taping!), great hood, very breathable, light, packs away small, really nice cut for snowboarding. And it comes in stealth black.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
stevomcd, I agree with your sentiment entirely, I have a Arcetryx Beta goretex shell with waterproof zips, waist long only, vents under arms (I run hot), 2 side front pockets, left arm pass pocket, inside pocket for money, velcro wrist wraps on sleeves, high storm collar with fleecy inner to collar, hood (but only ever wear it on a mega cold lift). I wear this layered up over a 320 merino Icebreaker, with 180 Icebreaker merino bace-layer, and Arcteyx Theta goretex throusers c/w braces and rear snow back warmer, icebreaker 3/4 merino 180 base-layer under. Wear with a pair of Hestra Army gloves, merino inners (if cold), Falke socks, merino neck tube. Perfect warm up/ cool down layering system, suits me perfect in all weathers -20 to +5C. Carry all equipment in ABS freeride rucksack, tranceiver on, helmet/ goggles on and keep pockets free from bulk is my aim. Works a treat! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Unless you're climbing mountains, staying overnight on the side of them, exposing yourself thoroughly to the elements where you may actually be putting yourself in serious danger then you won't actually need most of all the 'brochure speak' that's been quoted on here.....99% of the skiers on here are never THAT far away from civilisation (skihutte/alpenhutte etc) so a waterproof and warm jacket and trousers will serve you well for years, otherwise you're just a label show-off bitch.
I'm a Kjus man meself.....head to toe*, wouldn't be seen dead in anything else to be honest.
* inc underpants.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
The Arcteryx zips are 100% waterproof, they do not let wind or rain though. And if you unzip it then er, yes, water gets in... I don't understand your point. If you have a velcro sealed flap and you unzip it water will get in; and in fact I have found water gets in to non-waterproof zips even with flaps.
The benefit of not having a flap is that you can open it more easily and there's no velcro to ice up.
I've skied enough in the p*ssing rain at Whistler to see the benefits of waterproof zips - Arcteryx and Patagonia are expensive but these are the the only ones that actually work when the weather is really cr*appy.
It's not a matter of life and death, but it is a matter of staying warm and comfortable all day long so you can enjoy skiing in conditions that would otherwise be miserable.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Lets see how the last jacket I bought measures up to the original ideal
"proper, doubled over zip front so as to keep the weather out." flap behind zip and another over it so should do the job
"Vents" Yep
"Breathable." Yep
"A hood." Yep, detaches when not wanted or velcro tab to roll it up if you might want it later
"Pockets with zips - plenty of them." Yep, not much space for more! .
And the best thing I ever saw in a jacket was a poacher's pocket at the back which went all the way along. Perfect for taking off jumpers if it's too hot, but not needing to carry a pack. Nope but lots of mesh pockets inside
And the jacket, TKMaxx Surfanic cheapo for my 6 year old daughter!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
My last jacket had a zipped pocket on the outer upper arm which was great for my walkie talkie. I could use the walkie talkie without having to take it out the pocket and it was really handy and I was never worried about injuring myself on it if I fell.
My current jacket doesn't have this and I really miss it. My only option now is chest pocket (which I don't like in case I stack it on a toe edge and get a walkie talkie through my ribs) or my waist pocket - but this digs in to me everytime I bend over to do my bindings. I also find I use it alot less as it involves faff to dig it out of a pocket. Would love my upper arm poclet back.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
beeorchid, Have a look at the Helly Hansen Velocity jacket. No inner jacket but it ticks all your other boxes. Sells at £180, i picked one up last year for £99 online. Used it in feb half term in Serre Che and it was brilliant. Really warm and comfortable. I thinkits a great jacket.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Dr John wrote: |
| James the Last wrote: |
Pockets with zips - plenty of them. (2 bottles of water, a spare hat (balaclava), spare gloves, choc. bar, ski lock, camera, goggles |
You're planning to carry all that in your jacket? No chance. What you want, my old china, is a back pack. |
I think he needs to learn to ski with a Tesco trolley in front
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
James the Last,
Sorry, that's a softshell. It's supposed to be light and breath well, and not suited to skiing in the rain. You're the one that needs to learn a bit more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
