 Poster: A snowHead
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There is a lot of talk about insurance companies tightening up their T&C, particularly with respect of off piste activities. Henry's Avalanche Team say they have heard of many such situations from the Val d'Isere piste patrollers.
So I'm wondering, have any snowheads had a refusal on their winter sports policy for any kind of claims and why was that? Was the refusal justified or totally unreasonabe? Did you understand your policy when you bought it?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Did you know that drinking could invalidate your ski insurance? The British Consulate in Milan has reported a case where the insurance company refused to pay out as the policy holder ‘had put himself in unnecessary danger and was under the influence of alcohol.’ Always check the small print of your travel insurance: http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/news/latest-news/?view=News&id=192508682
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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davidof, very good question and I hope people are willing to share their experiences. My only refusal was on a pair of skis. They were not locked, just left outside a bar. Very annoying to come out after a few beers and find them gone. The insurance company was the BMC policy. They said that as I could not prove the value of the skis and I did not have an old for new policy I was not entitled for a replacement pair. Just a small cash payment. Not very good, but it was a good few years ago and now I always keep my receipt's when I buy anything that needs to be insured and carry a lock.
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| Quote: |
They were not locked, just left outside a bar.
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snowcrazy, we've all done it but why would you expect to be paid out at all in those circumstances? What did you think might happen? That they'd take them away, give 'em a quick tune up and bring them back? If you leave property lying around and unattended and it gets stolen it's surely no great surprise. No different to leaving your house unlocked.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I had my claim for travel to an alternative resort refused by GO Travel insurance when there was no snow in Neiderau.
The TO laid on buses to Kaltenbach at 20€ per day, but when I tried to claim, even though there was space on the form for you to enter the cost of transport to an alternative resort, tey said "No, an alternative was available, so we're not paying".
I had assumed that they meant a more local alternative than an hour's bus ride that had to be paid for away.
When you read the wording carefully, it basically says they will pay out for piste closure, but not in any circumstance they can think of excluding 
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Section N - piste closure
The underwriter will pay a benefit, as shown in the Schedule of Benefits, if you are unable to ski for a continuous period of in excess of 12 hours, due to a lack of snowfall or adverse weather conditions during the months of December to March inclusive, at your pre-booked wintersports resort.
The underwriter will not pay for the following in addition to the general exclusions, in connection with claims made under Section N:
* any benefit, if you are not skiing in a pre-booked wintersports resort which is 1,000m above sea level
* any benefit, if you are unable to provide a report from the resort management substantiating your claim
* any benefit, if an alternative resort is available
* any benefit, if the piste closure was in existence prior to your arrival in your pre-booked wintersports resort
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
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They were not locked, just left outside a bar.
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snowcrazy, we've all done it but why would you expect to be paid out at all in those circumstances? What did you think might happen? That they'd take them away, give 'em a quick tune up and bring them back? If you leave property lying around and unattended and it gets stolen it's surely no great surprise. No different to leaving your house unlocked. |
But since he did get a small amount of cash, the answer to your question is YES. He expected and received some compensation. I'm surprised you even bother to ask.
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We had 2 days closed in Arinsal because of too much snow. No avalanche risk, they just couldn't clear the snow from the lift stations quickly enough, and you couldn't see your feet.
Our policy covered piste closure for 'lack of skiable snow conditions causing lift closure for more than 80% of the day' We put in a claim for the two days. They turned it down, on the basis that there wasn't a lack of snow. I fought them about. They said that the meaning of the policy was that they would pay out if there was no snow and the resort closed more than 80% of the lifts. Fought them a bit more on the basis that we had 'lack of skiable snow conditions.' They gave in and paid up, but their new policy wording is 'lack of skiable snow causing....'
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Thornyhill wrote: |
We had 2 days closed in Arinsal because of too much snow. No avalanche risk, they just couldn't clear the snow from the lift stations quickly enough, and you couldn't see your feet.
Our policy covered piste closure for 'lack of skiable snow conditions causing lift closure for more than 80% of the day' We put in a claim for the two days. They turned it down, on the basis that there wasn't a lack of snow. I fought them about. They said that the meaning of the policy was that they would pay out if there was no snow and the resort closed more than 80% of the lifts. Fought them a bit more on the basis that we had 'lack of skiable snow conditions.' They gave in and paid up, but their new policy wording is 'lack of skiable snow causing....' |
p.s. Alex- We got letters for the TO and from resort stating that we couldn't ski because of the conditions..... in Spanish. The insurance company initially said they couldn't accept them as they were in Spanish.......
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I am using this thread to elaborate on the small print changes I see this year. If it is covered elsewhere please direct me to it. I use Snowcard and have been loud in their praise. However, now they want us to" consult the pist authorities about intended route , and make an experienced risk assessment " Thats for Level 3. For Level 2 we must "take advice from the piste authorities on which areas have been made safe and are suitable for off-piste skiing".
That seems a lot lot more than just looking at the avalanche flags. And it implies you must know your whole route for the day --I am not touring, just bopping round the resort doing what looks attractive and at 8.30 am I have no idea where this may take me in the day.
"Consult ", ..."take advice " ...this implies conversations with knowlegeable people down to a close level of locale detail.
I can't imagine any "piste authority" wanting to do this for lots of little groups of skiers each morning.
Do our regular off-pisters do these things ? . I am happy to be told they are the norm and I will subside and get in step, but just at the moment I feel that my impromptu/cautious approach to a tasty bit of new snow is pretty normal. Yet I worry I could find myself without cover unless I have documented proof of these consultations.
Question , therefore < : Is this degree of daily enquiry normal among recreational off-pisters ?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Had a travel insurance claim repudiated regarding a camcorder stolen from my checked in luggage - the policy didn't cover theft of "valuables" from checked in luggage, but would have covered clothes etc. Answer is to take such stuff on as handluggage. Police thought may have been baggage handlers, but I couldn't prove that and the airline weren't interested.
Anyway, dunno re the claims for injury being turned down, touch wood!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I thought I was going to have a claim refused when it took over 6 weeks to get my claim settled, turned out the insureres claims handlers were simply s l o w .
Compare that to DOGTAG who settled in full inside 2 working weeks! 
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No off-piste areas are "made safe". This is a North American concept.
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You know it makes sense.
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Farley Goode, hmm. I too have been a keen supporter of snowcard. However in the policy I now see that I would be uninsured if I deliberately took a risk, unless trying to save someone's life. I thought the whole point of our insurance was that skiing is inherently risky. So that's probably absurd enough for me not to go with snowcard again. But I can't find the reference you make in the latest policy wording. Time to re-visit Dogtag BMC and SCGB, I suppose.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Gets more interesting.
Dogtag wont cover over 64s. SCGB will, but only if I rejoin the Club and take out their top level of cover. Now looking at the BMC.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Boredsurfing,
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Compare that to DOGTAG who settled in full inside 2 working weeks!
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Never miss an opportunity, do you? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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achilles, looks like Direct Travel will insure over 65s, but in Europe only.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hurtle, thanks - but I have now paid for a BMC annual policy - and BMC membership.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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achilles, worldwide cover?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hurtle, nope, Europe - but I think wider coverage would have been available.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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A further twist in this. Snowcard tell me that these kind of words and requirements are now being applied by virtually all underwriters and that BMC have the same underwriters as Snowcard and they were in the forefront of this stricter wording.
At least the words are there to be seen with Snowcard, on the website though not in the actual policy wording. The worry is that with others they may be being applied and not mentioned until a claim arises.....back to where this thread began.
I am staying with Snowcard. Mostly I ski with Guides and when not so I will apply the rules of enquiry of the authorities as far as I can.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 28-12-10 0:31; edited 1 time in total
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The basic idea is that you must be able to substantiate any claim you make with evidence that you are a competant person who has not made a rash decision. The insurance underwriter may defend against this... stick to your guns and you will generally be ok. But be prepared to go to court to argue your case.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| snowball wrote: |
| No off-piste areas are "made safe". This is a North American concept. |
I know what you are getting at, but it's not quite true to say this. There are ski routes in St Anton that are "made safe" but remain completely unpisted and are unpatrolled for example, and I'm pretty sure other resorts have similar concepts, often marketed as "freeride terrain" or words to that effect.
Mind you , having seen an avalanche cross an open piste in St Anton (a piste we were on because the ski routes were closed due to avalanche risk) I am not entirely sure I would use the phrase "made safe"; perhaps "made less dangerous"...
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| Farley Goode wrote: |
At least the words are there to be seen with Snowcard, on the website though not in the actual policy wording. The worry is that with others they may be being applied and not mentioned until a claim arises.....back to where this thread began.
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They can't do that.
While any words which are in the policy are of course open to interpretation, they cannot have any "hidden" clauses. Everything must be in the policy.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Lloyds TSB Ski insurance only covers you for skiing in the UK if you are on an organised holiday but not if you just go skiing somewhere for the day.
Not sure how other companys insurance cover works for skiing in the UK though 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You don't really need accident/medical insurance in the UK do you? Evacuation from the hill is free as is your medical treatment.
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| ccl wrote: |
| You don't really need accident/medical insurance in the UK do you? Evacuation from the hill is at no cost to the individual as is your medical treatment. |
ahem.... corrected that for you...
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You know it makes sense.
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alex_heney, Yes, but , say, in car insurance, you might get rejected if your tyres were badly inflated ,(specific in my car policy) or you were driving without a valid MOT, ie , your car might have contributed in some way to the accident (not referred to in my policy ).
Snowcard emphasize to me that these references are in their advisory section , not in the policy itself. They do however give some clue as to what is best practice and , as above, we might prejudice ourselves if we depart too far from that. They are clearly trying to get people to think and act more responsibly and there is the underlying possibility that if there are too many wild claims then off-piste cover might disappear from the market.
They also are strong in professing that they are there to help get a claim paid , not to hinder it. I have had such good treatment from them in the past that I am accepting this as overruling my reservations and accepting that their advisory notes are not rules written in stone. I just wish the words made this clearer.
I shall, therefore, help myself more so than in the past by trying to meet the requirements and noting down at the start of the day as much as I can from weather and avi reports . If I can build up a record of responsible enquiry I feel it should help me in the event of my actions being questioned on some particular event. Might even keep me out of trouble.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| MoodyFFS wrote: |
| ccl wrote: |
| You don't really need accident/medical insurance in the UK do you? Evacuation from the hill is at no cost to the individual as is your medical treatment. |
ahem.... corrected that for you... |
Thanks for that.... pretty pointless though where the context was clearly about costs to an individual that might need to be insured against.
The costs of mountain rescue, lifeboat service, NHS are hardly relevant to the discussion about insurance.
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FAQ
plus I was very young at the time 
guess I am older and wiser now, but what a sad world we live in where skiers steel from eachother. 
