 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi all,
I can't believe that I only found this site a few days ago - I've spent about 20 hours since learning a hell of a lot about skiing etc, so I wondered if anyone could help solve the one problem that I can't fix yet.
I have been on skiing holidays only 3 times with a total of about 30 days skiing in total.
The first time I went skiing, I had awful cramp in the base of my right foot so, on the advice of the instructor, I changed boots. It didn't help. The pain is most severe during the first 2 hours and tends to be better after lunch. The pain is mainly in the arch - below the ankle but not quite as far under the foot as the arch itself.
On the second holiday, I had the same problem in Verbier so went to a shop, bought new boots, had them shaped to fit my feet and also insert thingies which were moulded for my feet on a machine. I had to stand on a rubbery cushion type thing to get the mould. Full of enthusiasm and hope, off I went.
Within minutes of skiing, the pain was back. Talk about frustration!!!!! I felt like giving up skiing there and then.
As I'm not a good skier - I tend to ski incorrectly at times and sort of snow-plough when I'm struggling, but that is improving. I'm not one of those people who likes to go as fast as I can and think that this is good skiing, I just want to learn how to be in total control of each level I go up. I was getting reasonably comfortable on red slopes but, as I said, if I feel that I'm losing control as bit or tight or steep areas, my natural reaction is to put weight onto this area of my foot. As I get better at skiing, I know that this will change, but it's not a help now.
I've tried visits to doctors in ski resorts (as I presumed they would be more used to these issues), tried thick socks, thin socks, anti-inflammatories, pain killers, alcohol (lots!), stretching exercises etc but none of it helps. At the moment, I'm trying the tennis ball under my foot for 45 mins a day exercise, more in hope than anything else.
I'm off skiing again this Friday for two weeks and I don't want to go through hell again. I'm going to a small village in the Italian Alps (Selva val Gardena) and I don't think that they will have specialists there who would be able to help anymore than the people in Verbier did or didn't!
It's a stab in the dark but there seems to be an answer for everything on here so I thought that I would try to cure this agony. If I can't, this will sadly be my last skiing holiday, which will be a real shame, especially as my better half loves it so much.
Thanks in advance for ANY help.
Regards,
Nick
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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May sound like a daft question but are your feet the same size. You can get moulded footbeds, they make a huge difference, but if you have different sized feet there wil be an element of one foot slopping about, if the boots fit your bigger foot. I had a similar problem and put a thin foot bed under my moulded footbed in the smaller foot boot, it feels a bit tight firts thing, but after a couple of runs I can't tell the difference.
There may also be better boots that suit your problem as different boots suit different standards of skier. That's a question that others on here will no doubt advise. I was skiing on what I was told was a beginner boot about two seasons too long and found when I changed it did make a big difference to my skiing.
Alternatively you may not be positioning yourself properly and again others on here can advise you on that. Small tweaks make huge differences and I have picked something up on nearly every trip. You are doing the right thing asking, whatever you do don't give up that would be a disaster. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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JackAbroad, sounds similar to problems I used to have, in my case I have almost flat feet but bizzarely a high instep, anyway solved my pain problems by using a small heel lift inside the boot under the insole, this alters the balance point allowing pressure to go to heel and ball of foot rather than arch area, best bet is to find an expert to do this for you, CEM on snowheads has got legions of admirers apparently for his work
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks mfamily2 and Michelle.
My feet are almost exactly the same size, apparently, so that shouldn't be the problem.
I might be positioning myself wrong, but I took instructors for most of the first (as I wanted to learn how to ski properly) and I think I'm getting it right MOST of the time. The different ski instructors in three different resorts haven't been able to help, other than feel some sympathy.
The boots I have aren't for a total beginner or a pro - something in between. I was skiing blues comfortably (with huge pain) at the time of buying them. Would knowing the brand or model make be able to tell if they were wrong for me? I can check and post the brand.
Maybe getting up-to-speed quickly when I arrive instead of going too carefully and accidentally snowploughing would release or limit the pressure on this part of the foot?!!?!??! I don't know.
The pain is excruciating though - like having a hot knife slowly being pushing into the side/bottom of your foot. People look at me weird when I'm at the bottom of the slopes, by the lifts, lying on the floor with my boot off, rubbing my foot and ALMOST crying in agony.
It's strange but even the thought of skiing is making my foot ache! It can't be a mental thing, can it????
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JackAbroad, definitely find a bootfitter and get them to have a look. even the best bootfitters don't always get it right first time so although you did the right thing in getting your own boots and having them fitted, they may still need a bit of tweaking
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Michelle - thanks again. I know exactly what you mean about the stops 30 minutes in. And ever 30 minutes after that. Any chance to get my boot off, I took it. Thank you SO much for your encouragement. You're an angel.
D G Orf - unfortunately, I don't know of any really trustworthy feet specialists in Moscow, where I'm living now and I'm not sure that someone in Selva will have the experience or technology to be able to help either. It sounds like a good idea though.
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just seen the bit about moscow
a huge proportion of ski boots are made in northeast italy so you may have a bit of luck finding an expert around selva...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Arno, this thought did cross my mind. The guy who did my boots seemed to be in a rush. He put an egg -shape on the left side of my boot near where the pain was but when I asked if he'd deliberately not put it where the pain actually was, he took the boot and moved the "egg". That didn't fill me with a lot of confidence. It was right at the end of the season in Verbier and he was leaving town the next day, so I got the feeling that he had his mind on other things. Like as if he really didn't care, which worried me a bit.
Saying that, I'm not exactly the right person to question his professionalism, am I? Some people can do their jobs with their eyes closed and one hand tied behind their back!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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JackAbroad, Reckon we can sort it out, if you're ever near Chamonix after the 30th December would fancy a pop at the problem. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks Mollerski - funnily enough that was the shop that I found on the internet when looking recently. My worry is that "old-school" won't have all the technology or ideas that the busier, more modern places might have. Saying that, they seem to show a lot of equipment on the photos on their site, so it's worth trying.
SMALLZOOKEEPER - I wish I was in Cham so someone can really fix this. I have a good British mate who lives there every winter with his brother (but hardly ever skiis) and have promised to visit them for years.
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My OH gets that problem too. It's not his boots - they have been well and expertly fitted. He has found that what works for him is to ensure that shortly before he puts his boots on he rolls the base of his feet very vigorously on a small wooden roller with ridges on. He does it for several minutes, pressing hard. He also doesn't do his boots up tight till he gets to the top of the chairlift. That way he rarely has a significant problem - but if he forgets to roll it can still cause problems.
Roller like this http://www.raymondandco.com/woodfootroller.html
We have other foot massage gizmos but he finds the small wooden roller much the most effective.
I don't have that problem in ski boots, but I do in my walking boots - it comes on after about 2 hours. The only solution is to take the boots out and massage the base of my feet. then it goes away, but comes back more frequently after that (my excuse for limiting walks to 3 or 4 hours  )
You have hinted at technique problems - you might be getting tense. Not a bad idea to have some lessons.
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You know it makes sense.
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JackAbroad, I have suffered similar painful episodes, normally after the first 10-15 mins, feels like a hot knife in the arches and soles of feet, need to to sit down to take weight off the feet, sometimes loosen boot buckles. Once rested I sometimes get pins and needles so I think for me it's related to blood circulation. I also suffered from fallen arches as a teenager which doesn't help.
I got some Superfeet footbeds because I thought I needed more support for the arches, but I found these a bit too hard and unforgiving. I now have some Iron Man gel insoles, these have a bit of arch support but are quite forgiving and have a nice warm felt surface which helps keep the cold from penetrating and causing circulation problems, they take up a bit of room in the boot such that I don't have to ratchet up the lower 2 buckles of my boots, this used to crush the arch into an unnatural position and restrict circulation and only exacerbated the problem. The shin and ankle buckles need to be snug but not overly tight to ensure control over the skis, whilst the lower foot buckles just need to be tight enough to take up the slack.
Last trip, with the softer, insulating insoles, stretching the arch and soles a bit to warm them up and boots buckles not too tight, particularly the buckle that goes over the arch area, I don't remember suffering in the same way.
I think for occasional skiers, the foot circulation takes a bit of getting used to having a boot around it and applying pressure in ways that it's not used to in normal life and footwear, so anything that can relieve or cushion the pressure is going to help.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| JackAbroad wrote: |
| My worry is that "old-school" won't have all the technology or ideas that the busier, more modern places might have. |
They have all the latest measuring kit etc, etc. It's very civilised, they have long raised seats for the customers to place the feet at a good working height for the fitter. The fitters sit on low stools wearing natty green aprons. 
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Sun 19-12-10 13:16; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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I have a similar problem, I don't remember having a problem in hire boots my first 3 years or the first year after i got my own boots, but the next year i had really bad pain after about 30 Min every morning which was so bad I just wanted to stop, but I found if I kept going it would go in about 30 Min to an hour and I would then be OK for the rest of the day. The next year I had new insoles fitted but still the same.
The following year I got new boots and hoped it would solve the problem but still the same.
I still have the problem now, but someone told me I may be doing them up to tight, so now I do them as loose as possible first thing in the morning and then slowly start to tighten them after a few runs. Seems to help a lot, sometimes I get no problems now and if I do I just loosen them again for a little longer. I probable end up with them as tight as I used to, just not first thing.
I,m sure this is not the proper answer, but it has helped me. Maybe i should try the heal lift mentioned earlier
As for "mental thing", funny but my feet are aching while writing this .
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Mike - maybe this is what people mean when they talk about "muscle memory"
My right foot is actually aching too! It doesn't inspire me with much confidence, to be honest, but I will definitely give Bruno and Co a chance to fix the problem.
I will also try the roller idea - it's probably similar to the tennis ball thing that I'm doing now - thanks Pam! Thanks also to Luigi, Arno and Mollerski for all your help.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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JackAbroad, Where are you staying in Selva?
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JackAbroad, lots of good general advice here (boots not too tight - or too loose, that used to make me claw my toes, which led to cramp - take it easy on the first couple of runs, have some lessons, etc) but it strikes me as being odd that you only get the pain in one foot. That makes me think that there is a specific problem which needs fixing, in either or both of that foot and that boot. Really hope that the fitter recommended by Mollerski will both diagnose and fix your problem. Very best of luck - it would be such a shame to have to give up because of the pain. Do you visit the UK regularly? If so, as already mentioned, snowHead CEM, who is based in Bicester and is Colin at http://www.solutions4feet.co.uk/ would definitely be worth consulting. Or fulfil that promise to yourself and visit Chamonix and SMALLZOOKEEPER.
Oh, and welcome to snowHeads!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@ Mollerski. We're staying at Garni Franca. Seems like a nice enough place.
Hurtle - thanks for the welcome and the advice. I'm really praying that the fitter in Selva will be able to help. I'll let everyone know when I get back.....in case anyone's interested, of course.
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For fear of this becoming part of others sales patter, 90% of problems in ski boots are born by the foot, correct support, alignment and pith of angle, should solve most issues, thereafter it's just modifications to the shell, which is childsplay really. Good luck mate whatever route you take, offer stands if you can make it to see that buddy for a glass of hot Cheese and some dried ham. 
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Hurtle, I seem to remember you recommending CEM's set of exercises to someone here , I just had a look at the link above but did not see them there,
may we have it again, please ?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| JackAbroad wrote: |
| [...]I'll let everyone know when I get back.....in case anyone's interested, of course. |
of course we are interested, a lot of us has this problem  ,
please let us know the results, good luck
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| JackAbroad wrote: |
@ Mollerski. We're staying at Garni Franca. Seems like a nice enough place.
Hurtle - thanks for the welcome and the advice. I'm really praying that the fitter in Selva will be able to help. I'll let everyone know when I get back.....in case anyone's interested, of course. |
Yep, we stayed there a few times with Esprit when the kids were young. Esprit don't use it now. The Franca is comfortable and well located. Watch the owners, they live at the back of the building and are a bit fierce.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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They might be fierce but they haven't seen me after a day struggling with foot problems. Given the choice of annoying me or anesthetic-free root canal treatment, trust me, they will take the latter
Thank you all once again.....you really don't know how comforting it is to have so much help and ideas.
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I had the same problem and sympathise, it's like having your foot clamped in a vice = it bloody hurts! I've got stupidly wide feet and coudn't do up the 2 toe box buckles without pain. I found it was even worse with the high support insoles as they held my feet up and didn't allow them to spread. In the end I bought new boots and changed to less supporting insoles and it still hurt untill I got the shells stretched at the widest part of my feet on the outside. (I bought my first boots in Scotland and they had no idea and stretched both sides of the boot to the horror of the french resort fitter). Perfect now! Stretching's not necessary for most but a good boot fitter should be able to get you comfy. Good luck!
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
a good boot fitter should be able to get you comfy
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well, maybe. As I said, my OH's boots are very well fitted and not a problem. Now that he's discovered the foot rolling trick he really has no problem skiing all day in them, though he does do them up just loosely at first. Do try it - those rollers cost a few bob.
There are times when I think the problem is partly psychological - first thing in the morning, etc etc.
I have another friend - a beginner - who I was skiing with who had a similar problem. He's no wimp (ex Royal Marines and professional diver) but was in a lot of pain. When I asked him whether he was trying to grip the bottom of the boots with his toes he nodded wryly. I prescribed some rock music and a vin chaud. He was most reluctant to try to music but it did help - he was just ridiculously tense.
PS this illustrates the peril of taking advice from amateur friends rather than professional instructors - they'll just turn you into a half - aware zombie.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| JackAbroad wrote: |
| The pain is most severe during the first 2 hours and tends to be better after lunch. |
Nick, presuming lunch consists of the Alpine set menu of a Huge plate of spag-bol and 3 pints of WeissBier, try having it earlier in the day - perhaps for breakfast?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Red - I am not sure whether the improvement after lunch is a relaxing of the muscles after a break or 14 glasses of red wine
Seriously, I am "a coffee and 10 smokes" man so breakfast is quite hard for me. If it meant no pain, I'd eat a T-bone for breakfast, but I think the improvement after lunch is more related to the rest.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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JackAbroad, Check out the Coruna Hutte , off Seceda heading for Ortesei. It's superb, we booked the whole thing (21 covers ) for Xmas day lunch last year. It was memorable.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hi again Mollerski - was it a British type Christmas dinner or more of a local meal please?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| JackAbroad wrote: |
| Hi again Mollerski - was it a British type Christmas dinner or more of a local meal please? |
All local to the valley, inc. the wine.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hello and welcome.
You have described this soooo well jackabroad, as it seems exactly how I've felt before but don't give up there's just so much fun to be had when you get it sorted that you'd otherwise never know about.
I'll start by saying I'm not an trained expert in this area but deeply, sadly analytical all the same.
I feel that the circulation thing that other say is definitely in the right area so you need to take that into account.
I prep my feel by doing static calf raises if that's the right way to describe it, toes on a step and let heels drop to bend forefoot upwards to get some release across the mid foot.
Never use cold boots, leave inside boot bag with warmers in them all night to get whole shell warm.
Leave boot clips as loose as poss until you arrive at top of lift to ski, then unclip them for each succesive lift through the morning even if they don't cramp (just fick em open as you que then you can do them up fast at the top).
Don't run skis too long so you have better control without clenching your feet hard.
Not for now but during the year I use those Scholl wood sole single strap summer clogs and this seems to help develop out of it more than anything, (just try walking uphill in them and you'll see what I mean). My reason for this is to develop foot strength above that I use for skiing, seems to benefit me.
Just a thought but try putting the boots on indoors now and see if they get the same effect now as this will try to unlink boot fit from technique, try with boots both warm and cold to guage what effect it has.
Post some more and don't give up mine are fully sorted and don't hurt from even the first day now.
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Oh yes, in addition I don't fasten my boots either. The two buckles on the foot always stay open and the top two are only on the loosest clasp and then get progressively tighter as the day goes on.
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You don't fasten the front even when you ski, Michelle? Wouldn't your foot move too much in your boot then?
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Yep Michelle, same as you I've hardly ever used the toe clips on my boots anyway and only now when really going for it as my ski level is better (people often point this out to me in q's to help me out ispose).
My technique is good enough now that I can understand more of the signals I'm getting, also skiing quite a bit with my daughter in a backpack and this seems to generate higher foot temp and I then need to do up tighter but still with no cramps.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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FAQ
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) the two buckles on the leg start to be fastened tighter.
wait for the backlash.... 