 Poster: A snowHead
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Just been looking at Folgarida's skiing as described in Wayne's (rather good) web site.
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| The adrenaline pumping black run known as Nera Folgarida which, with drops of over 60 degrees, will certainly get you down quickly. |
60°  Is that really so? To put that in context, the most formidable black piste I can think of is Alpe D'Huez's Tunnel - where I am told the opening slope is 38°. What lengths of Nera Folgarida are 60°? How on earth does it hold snow? How many punters ski on it?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 25-08-10 9:36; edited 3 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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60% probably rather than degrees.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Or an occasional roller where the backside of it is 60 degrees for about 5 metres.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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says 60% further down the page
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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altis, ah. Missed or forgot that. So basically, it looks like Wayne is misleading his clients after his error was pointed out. Naughty.
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Not in the slightest.
Just because it has become the custom on ski slopes to incorrectly define gradients, it doesn't mean that when someone uses the correct terminology that they are misleading anyone. It’s dead simple really (although most website still don’t seem to understand it); the percentage drop of a slope is not the same as the angle of inclination. We use the correct terminology (%). If other sites wish to dumb down it’s nowt to do with us.
 and on that point – I am out of this argument, unless we want to talk about at what angle we should start wearing a helmet.
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so...
what angle of slope should we put our helmets on? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Wayne wrote: |
| We use the correct terminology. |
You use the terms "degrees" and "percent" interchangeably on that page, which is incontrovertibly not correct.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Yep, it does say "degrees". Not "percent".
Probably a typo of sorts.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Wayne, Did you put achilles cat into a wheelie bin or something?
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[Diplomatic hat on]Regardless of whether it is expressed in degrees or percent I think it wouldn't hurt for the units to be consistent as mentioned above - to do otherwise really smacks of a lack of attention to detail which, on a web page which looks professional and offers so much other useful information is unfortunate. Wayne, why don't you have a tidy up and, for the uninformed skiers out there, that are trying to make sense of your figures you could add a couple of diagrams to indicate the gradients that you are mentioning in the text so that all punters out there appreciate the difference? [/Diplomatic hat off]
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You know it makes sense.
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Perhaps what we need here is an informed Snowheads steepness scale similar to the skiing experience scale (bag of spanners, etc) that run some time ago. That would clear things up. On that scale perhaps a very flat green could be "one to p*ss yourself laughing at the snowboarders really struggling on". Not sure what Nera could be though.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Pretty sure the horrid black run in La Thuile said 72%. What is that in degrees? I wasn't much of a mathemetician I'm afraid, but since all the pistes in La Thuile were helpfully labelled with percentages of the steepest gradients, I decided that 65% was the level at which I decided no thanks.
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Poster: A snowHead
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There are some nice diagrams here: https://www.e-education.psu.edu/natureofgeoinfo/book/export/html/1593 at section 10 on the page.
I tend to think in terms of road slopes 1 in 4 is 25% so on a bit of graph paper for every 4 square travelled you move 1 square down, 1 in 5 is 20%, 1 in 6 is 16%, 1 in 2 is 50%, 1 in 1.66 is 60.2% - which is fairly steep, but as those diagrams show a 1 in 1 is only 45 degrees as measured with a protractor. A 60% slope is only around 34.4 degrees protractor angle as per Google.
Google confirms that a 60 degree slope is a 104.7% slope in other words it exceeds a 1 in 1 in terms of steepness it is around a 1 in 0.96 car slope
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 24-08-10 13:38; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks folks, I now know to avoid anything more than 65% or 32º.
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That's a rather daft reductionist way of looking at the world, missus.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Wayne, Good for you, I'm sure that will mean much more to the majority even if its not absolutely spot on for accuracy. N.B. Yes, I think I would want to know that the coach has broken down rather than be left wondering, so that is a good call too IMV 
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Wayne, keep using percent it's fine - the problem was (as teh OP quoted) in one place you used degrees instead of percent, you only had to change the one word.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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How steep is 'very steep'? Is it steeper than 'ever so steep' or less steep than 'really steep'?
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Wayne, Just use both notations, state degrees first because I think it's more easily understood by the majority of punters and then in brackets state the correct scientific/formal/engineering notation to satisfy everyone else.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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PisteHead, as in 31° (60%) [fairly steep for a red at Les Deux Alpes]?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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achilles, which one is that?
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stupid comment removed at authors insistence
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Tue 24-08-10 21:31; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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Oh dear Wayne, it's quite clear that old adage of pleasing some of the people all of time etc.......certainly applies in this instance - you can only do your best 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| achilles wrote: |
| PisteHead, as in 31° (60%) [fairly steep for a red at Les Deux Alpes]? |
Achilles, I had something like '31 degrees (60% gradient)' in mind. For science journals, work and road/rail signs I realise the correct notation is/maybe expected. However on a TO website I think more of the target audience will understand and be able to visualise a 31 degree slope more easily than a 60% gradient.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Colin B, I was thinking of Fee - must admit I am guessing, but I would have thought it was of that order.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What angle would you guestimate the blacks at deux alpes (eg Valentin, Gd Coiloury?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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boardiac, the steepest part of Valentin (skiers left at the big snow canon) is 32 degrees.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Swirly, I think maybe the steepest black at LDA is at the side of Grand Couloir - though I sometimes feel I've earned my coffee after skiing the black down to La Fee. I must admit that I thought that Valentin at its steepest was a tad more than 31°. Have you put an inclinometer on it?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Amazing. A whole page and no-one has actually commented on the piste itself. Well let me put that right - it's a lot of fun! Short steep sections; shorter run-off breaks, and a great view of the valley floor from the entrance
(Come to think of it, you can see the view and then exit to the blue, which isn't shown on the piste map)
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TallTone, Yes but is it Steep, Very steep, or Ever so steep, we need to confirnm the accuracy of Waynes website
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TallTone, so sort of like the Lauberhorn but with different views?
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TallTone, Yes but is it Steep, Very steep, or Ever so steep, we need to confirnm the accuracy of Waynes website
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and how does it compare to a red in LDA to validate achilles, view
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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achilles, no but that came from a pisteur. I always thought the steepest run was Gours Bis (the short black that meets the flat blue to La Fee) it's quite a surprise that one as it's really flat then turns a corner and drops.
To go back to the original topic slightly 60% is steep, I think anything over 30 degrees (58% ish) can be justifiably called steep.
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I think anything over 30 degrees (58% ish) can be justifiably called steep.
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Swirly, that isn't how things work. You have to relate it to something else like "twice as high as Big Ben", "the size of Wales" or "enough to fill 12 Olympic sized swimming pools". Using scientific notation to justify "steep", "very steep" or "downright dangerous" just won't cut it. I suggest a Head over Heels (HoH) scale.
Flat = No incident of HoH when you fall over
Steep = At least 1 HoH
Very Steep = At least 4 HoH
DD = don't stop until the bottom if you as much as catch an edge
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