 Poster: A snowHead
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I've just been on the phone to this firm www.rkheliski.com in Panorama in Canada and they assure me that it's ok to heli ski with up to eleven people. With only the guides and only one paying person having a Shoval and a probe. I on a personal level find this amazing. Any comments 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Its a tourist day skier operation - I wouldn't be surprised if they do control work on the terrain they ski or ski it so often that its pretty skier compacted plus it'll be low angle. Probably experience tells them that briefly training day skiers in search protocols and probe/digging is of negligible value. Seems to be guides who would be most impacted by the policy so you have to assume they are happy with it.
Not a great example though.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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11 people in a group would be like herding cats.
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Well I guess that person will be skiing near the back, then the tail gunner will be behind them with the lead guide in a safe spot before anyone comes down riskier terrain likely well spread out, so there is a very good chance there will be one unburied shovel most likely 2. You don't need everyone digging at the same time so would think it would be okay.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've skied with RK but haven't skied with any other companies so can only comment from that side.
One guide at the front; one guide at the back. One spare avalanche rescue pack carried by person at the back.
The helicopter which is near by carries more spare kit in terms of shovels I think. I would expect their response to be that in the event of an avalanche they would get the helicopter on scene and supplying extra shovels fast enough given that you should only have one or two people actually searching initially. They would plan on that being the guide. They cover basic beacon use before you start the day; to be proficient enough to make a difference takes more training then a day skier will want to spend. Even the hour they make you do is cold at -20C in the car parks.
The main issue is indeed around herding cats but they do seem to have a system that works.
As I said I can't compare with other operations but would be surprised if any helicopter operator makes everyone carry packs. The space in the helicopter just isn't there; cat skiing might be different.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I'd never go in a group that large. Apart from herding cats/tourists, if your going to spend a lot of money on Heli skiing you need to be 100% sure that the level of all the skiers in the group is all the same otherwise your be hanging around waiting for the stragglers
Max I do is 3 + 1 guide.
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skid & slide, You did not specify how many guides with the eleven customers. If, as assumed by stuarth, there are two guides plus extra equipment in the aircraft it should just about cover it. The Bell 212 aircraft they are using can be configured to carry 14 passengers so eleven customers and up to three guides. The guide/customer ratio of about 5/1 is as high as you would usually want to go. Eleven to two guides should be managable especiallly if they are on well known terrain.
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Excellent, professional company operating in a truly spectacular setting.
Great introduction to heliskiing, but if you've been before you may be disappointed.
You ski on mellow terrain looking at the more difficult stuff. And you farm the snow. Which for those who haven't done it means making lines side by side each other in order to preserve the powder for the next group.
If you're looking for more challenge, then my advice would be to ski Kicking Horse for 3-5 days, then move on to Revelstoke. Ski the resort for the majority of the days you have left and throw in some cat or heliskiing straight from the resort.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thank's all. I was a bit shocked that not all skier's have a shovel and a probe, as I thought it was normal when skiing off piste for all to be able to locate and dig out any victims.
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It's about limited space in the chopper.
RK and others have done the due dilligence, and determined that the operation they run will be able to respond to any emergency quickly.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Mike Pow, So does that mean that money comes before safety? Are these people cramming in more people than is safe for the Helicopter they are using? Would it be better for safety for all to have averlanche gear and one less person in the Helicopter?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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skid & slide, Have skied with RK chopper and extra guides is never more than 5 minutes away and the terrain for the most part is not AVI pron.
Great Operation and quite cheap per drop
Having said that the day we where out myself and the giude stopped on a lip only to feel the snow layers slide below us nedless to say we moved on quickly.
As above Kicking horse is Heli skiing without the Bird. 2 of the bowls where actually once used by RK or CMH as part of their Heli operations Much cheaper way to access similar vertical and terrain
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Fornerly Purcell heliski terrain.
Another good day outfit.
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You know it makes sense.
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| skid & slide wrote: |
| Mike Pow, So does that mean that money comes before safety? Are these people cramming in more people than is safe for the Helicopter they are using? Would it be better for safety for all to have averlanche gear and one less person in the Helicopter? |
Not in my opinion.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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skid & slide, You would be astonished (and feel much happier) if you'd seen the efforts that the Canadians put into avoiding avalanches in the first place. An astonishing amount of data is analysed daily on current conditions, where slides (usually self triggered) have occurred, what the snow pack is like, what the weather has done, etc. 5.30am guides meeting to plan where to ski and continuous communication between the guiding team throughout the day.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
| skid & slide wrote: |
| Mike Pow, So does that mean that money comes before safety? Are these people cramming in more people than is safe for the Helicopter they are using? Would it be better for safety for all to have averlanche gear and one less person in the Helicopter? |
Not in my opinion. |
Agreed but none the less its still a business.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If you look around the world at heli ski operations you will find that most will not give shovels to their customers. Not just a matter of seats in the helicopter but you would also need a suitable pack for every one. And it is more stuff for them to wee wee about with and hit themselves on the head with. As under a new name, says good operators put a lot of effort in to avalanche avoidance and this it not just a Canadian situation. This is not like a group of friends going off piste but a managed professional business that has worked out their procedures over many years.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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RK is a great operation - but every operation is different. The cat ski operations in the Kootenays (near Red Mountain Rossland and Nelson) operate with a minimum of 2 guest packs for each group - as well as have a tail guide as well as a lead guide for a group of 12.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Went to Crescent Spur in March and was very impressed - www.crescentspurheliski.com
Only 2 groups of 10 with 2 guides per group and everyone was provided with transceiver, shovel and probe with excellent instruction and practice in searching. Highly recommended.
Last time I heliskied with CMH there were 4 safety packs in a group of 11 and only one lead guide.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Just did a CMH trip this year. ALL skiers/boarders carry a pack now with a shovel and probe and in addition there 2 extra safety packs plus what the guide carries. the safety packs carries radios and extra safety equipment. We would rotate all day who would carry these.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Just joined snowheads and found this thread.
I'm familiar with a few of the Canadian Heli ops although only had the pleasure of using Whistler Heli Ski.
Has anyone on here used Mike Wiegele? It's on my list of one of those things I must do one day, just so expensive!!.
I was under the impression that some operations these days are also using ABS back packs as a matter of course?..
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Tarry, Never been to Mike Wiegele - too big an operation for me. Come to Crescent Spur - a few spaces still left.
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Thanks for the heads up.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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....
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sat 11-12-10 23:36; edited 2 times in total
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I Heli skied in Canada once with TLH, based at Stewart (almost on the Alaskan border at the head of a fijord). It was supposed to be a bit steeper than the other Canadian areas, though not so steep as proper Alaskan skiing. However also much fewer lost days than Alaska (which has average half the days lost!!!!) which is a factor if you can only afford to try it once.
We had 2 groups - 5 plus a guide in each - using one helicopter. While one group skied the other were met and moved to the top again. Really it should probably have been 3 groups for maximum efficiency.We all had shovel and probe and we certainly didn't farm (especially through the trees of course, which was more than half of it). I think I remember they said we had half a million acres to ourselves. We did have a sort of buddy system, though, because of possible tree-holes.
I think perhaps they only did it the one season there, or perhaps two - it was the first season it had been used anyway. some of the runs we did had never been skied before so we got to name them. On one descent one of our group lost a ski which shot off down a gully into trees where we didn't want to go, so the guide swapped ski(s) with him and skied down the rest of the route on one ski. And we STILL couldn't keep up with him.
That route we named "One Ski"
Unfortunately, though there was plenty of snow, they had had lots of wind and everything above the tree line was breakable crust, except one gully on a sheltered lee slope. They claimed it was the worst snow conditions they had had. Great powder among the trees, though. However we couldn't get them to drop us at the tree line - it would have put all their calculations of time and fuel use off.
You can see how bad the wind had been.
-the one run with fairly good snow above the trees
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Sun 12-12-10 7:04; edited 2 times in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Back in the 80's it was 3-4 skiers with 1 guide .
Now its 10+
Heli skiing has sold out to Mass Markets
The ONE rule you must apply is find out the level of your partners .
One or Two who cant ski Powder will be a waste of money & RUIN you day !
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Not only did you have to be able to ski powder on our holiday but you had to be able to ski breakable crust at a fair speed. I think our group were better than the other. (Other than my friend and me we were 3 French men, two of whom had been instructors.)
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BIAS ALERT: I work for a heli-skiing company.
Ski & slide - My very first experience with heli-skiing was with RK. If you are looking for a single day trip and you are an average intermediate, RK and Purcell heli-skiing would be perfect options. Both companies follow stringent safety practices and offer a great introduction to heliskiing.
If you want the stereotypical heli-skiing experience, you might want to consider a multi-day operation. All but one Canadian day skiing operation and several multi-day operations ski in large groups of 10-12....that's the size of a soccer team. They often have 3 or even 4 groups operating out of 1 helicopter (ie 30-48 people per heli)! The company I work for only has 4 people plus guide per group!
This is the best format in the industry, hands down. There's lots of reasons...less re-grouping, easier to sort out splits in ability, quicker in/out of the heli etc etc, but your concern was about people carrying packs. At our operation, the guide, obviously, has a pack and we insist at least 1 guest carries a pack (and skis tailgun)..which usually gets rotated between the 4 guests over the course of our 10-16 runs per day. What this means is that at the very least, the person next to you will have a probe+shovel. You can always choose to carry a pack too.
Above Mike Pow and Fattes13 mentioned Kicking Horse. We are very close to KH and have teamed up with them to offer combo packages: any number of days resort skiing getting your legs back, then however long heli-skiing with us. It's a pretty sweet trip.
If anyone has any questions, please PM me.
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FAQ
