 Poster: A snowHead
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Was surfing the net and come accross this:
http://www.harbskisystems.com/contents.htm
Anybody heard of this? Not the way i was taught and never heard of a "phantom move". Seems very unstable but then i'm not an expert. ....!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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From the bit that I read (better carving for blue/black skiers) it sounds like yet another way to make you do what you need to d to ski well. I found it a bit difficult to follow while sitting at my desk, but I think that I'd end up in the postion in which instructors tell me I should end up (in theory - in practice I end up in a variety of quite different positions).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Louis, lots of mentions of Harold Harb on epicski.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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There was a long and quite heated discussion on this a while back on snowHeads as well .... 
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=23293
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| Nothing new about this "invention". Tracked and wheeled grass ski have been around for decades... Very similar to the double-wheeled or broad-wheeled grass ski in fact, except that blading on concrete doesn't come close to resembling the give in snow, the variability in conditions, the sudden changes in angle, the hidden hazards ... grass skiing does. You can't skid grass skis either. |
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Harb is known for many things, including his book "Anyone can be an Expert Skier". Well that claim may or may not be true (in fact I think it is somewhat unlikely but then it depends what U mean by "expert" I guess), but if it is then it is not necessarily achievable by signing up to the "Harb system" IMO. By all means study and digest what Harb has to say, but maybe it would be wise to consider that fundamentalists of diiffering "faiths" can't all be right  .
(did you know that 45% of Americans believe the earth was created in the last 10,000 years according to polls reported in last Sunday's Observer? )
Scary or what?
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did you know that 45% of Americans believe the earth was created in the last 10,000 years
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It is also true that 94.7% of statstics are made up
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| Alan Craggs wrote: |
| Harb is known for many things, including his book "Anyone can be an Expert Skier". |
Funny that, he came out with that title for a book, then pointed out that there are very few expert skiers in the world, so it's "anyone can be an expert skier, but let's face it, 99.9% of skiers, even after reading the book, going to the camps, etc, never will be."
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Easy there WTFH!
Please don't bring that Epicski versus PMTS fight over here!
For those who don't frequent Epic or Realskiers you may not be aware of the rivalry (more like emnity) between the PSIA mainstream (Epic) and the Harbistas (PMTS on Real').
I've read Harb's stuff and it looks like good stuff. I'm not saying it looks better, but it does look good.
Personally I am a disciple of Warren Smith!
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rungsp, I've read a lot of his stuff, and I'm just repeating what has been said.
btw, Epic isn't PSIA, Realskiers calls itself the PMTS forum.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Realskiers calls itself the PMTS forum.
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Skiers with PMT
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The first thing to understand is it's Harald, not Harold. And EpicSki isn't PSIA, that's www.psia.org. EpicSki is nondenominational.
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| nolo wrote: |
| The first thing to understand is it's Harald, not Harold. |
No, it's Harold. If the guy can't even spell his own name properly, why should we trust what he says about skiing?
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You know it makes sense.
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richmond, yeah! No one listens to Ronald Dahl about skiing.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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marc gledhill, exactly. Would you buy a hamburger from Roald MacDoald? I don't think so.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've read a lot of stuff from HH, and firstly have to say that he couches everything he writes in the most ridiculously long winded terms I've ever heard! In addition he appears to advocate feet together and rotation into the turn - EXCUSE ME????? IOW he's old fashioned. I can't say about the PSIA stuff, but he never stops slagging other instructors. Maybe he means OTHER AMERICAN INSTRUCTORS but that's not what he says, so he's insulting the whole profession and assumes we all follow rules that have been redundant in Europe for more than a decade.
Ski-ing is relatively simple - there's no need at all to complicate it. This is just a marketing ploy by certain ski teachers to make the students think they're learning something different!!!
rungsp, being a disciple of anyone is a bad idea - no-one has all the answers. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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easiski,
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In addition he appears to advocate feet together and rotation into the turn - EXCUSE ME?????
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No, that's not correct - here he is. Watch the clips and judge for yourself
http://www.web.pdx.edu/~petersj/Skills/Lessons.htm
He is critical of the PSIA organisation, not the instructors.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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RobertC, acutally, as PG pointed out, Harald does advocate feet together (or as near as possible)
Here's a quote from the link PG gave:
"...draw the free foot upward against the stance boot."
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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RobertC, a quotation from "Anyone can be an expert skier":-
"Weighting both skis, positioning the feet in a wide stance, and turning both feet are some examples of what doesn't work."
Now look at the photo of Harb at the top of your link.
Maybe some of these things do work some of the time 
Ali Ross, Warren Witherell and co. have been teaching "edge engagement" since the days of Noah. They don't appear to have needed "phantom moves", PMT or any other hormonal additives/marketing hype in order to tell people what a ski can do and how to persuade it to do so.
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This subject has been exhausted elsewhere. Harb's first book is 8 year old and perhaps there have been changes. Certainly some of the excercises create the impression that the boots should be touching.
I have been on two Harb camps and I am very impressed.
He is not teaching both feet jammed together, locked together or whatever - just a comfortable natural stance width. And rotation is very definitely not part of it. The clips on the link show what he is teaching now.
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RobertC, does that mean the information on the harbsystems link that PG gave is wrong?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Green lesson quotes from the current (and I assume up-to-date) website:
"step the downhill foot next to the uphill foot. "
"keep coaxing the free foot over to its little-toe edge and draw it closer. Tipping is easier as the feet get closer together.
Tip the free foot more aggressively to bring it farther onto edge than the stance foot.
Don’t stop now! Keep your free foot light, pull the free heel toward the stance heel, and continue to tip the free foot.""
"pull the uphill (brake) foot in so it glides alongside the accelerator foot. Additional tipping of the brake foot, accompanied by drawing it closer to the stance foot, "
Oh, and I think the pictures here show what he means...
http://www.harbskisystems.com/olg4.htm
"Press the heel of the free foot against the stance foot while tipping it."
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Perhaps these are exercises, carried out at slow speeds, intended to teach the manoevres? I can't say.
In one lesson this season, Harb told me to move my feet apart a little more. That's why I can be confident that he is not advocating 'feet together and rotation'.
Anyway, Harb's own posts, on the PMTS forum, explain his views on wide v narrow stance. Let's not rerun that here.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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RobertC, not trying to re-run anything, just trying to establish whether the websites are up-to-date, or that they are wrong.
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