 Poster: A snowHead
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So I've accepted an offer from a guy I know to join him and a dozen other people for a week in Morzine in March. There are other kids going (under-fives) so as parents of a one-year-old, me and the missus won't be the only ones doing babysitting shifts to allow us some slope time. 
Anyway, it's a DIY trip with every element booked seperate. Accomodation is sorted. Lift passes are what they are at the time. Travel is the key thing for us; I'm quite looking forward to doing the Eurotunnel to Calais and then driving down in a mini convoy with others. Alternatively, there's the usual route of flying (probably to GVA) and getting a transfer to resort.
The latter sounds good for some time-saving but A) really not sure if the little man will like planes that young and all the waiting at either end, plus B) there's the obvious limit of what you can take on a plane in terms of kiddy home comforts. The car on the other hand means we can take plenty of toys and other kiddy stuff, take our time getting there so he's relaxed and we're (relatively) relaxed, and just generally feel we're having an exciting road-trip holiday. Did it to Brittany in the summer and it worked well, aside from an electrical issue with the car.
I know that in reality it's up to me as a parent to make the judgement call as to what's right but a bit of advice from 'veterans' would be nice. My friend assures me it's a doddle and although I do believe him, his past experience is using a large, spacious MPV whereas I'll be doing it in a smaller Seat Leon R.
Costs obviously are going to be high; £140 for the train, £250 for the petrol and then I'm sure I'll have to figure in some extras (??) but it still seems like a really nice way to do a holiday... just is it that good when yo have a small one in tow?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Specialman, a one year old in a car is a long way, we always went by plane when they were that age to be honest
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You should be able to get the Eurotunnel tickets cheaper than that - you could use Tesco tokens, if you shop there.
Given that you are starting from *relatively* up North, you might want to break the drive on the way down, although my experience of children that age is that travelling is much easier than it will be in a few years time. The first time I drove to la Plagne, there were three adults in an Astra hatchback, and it was fine, but with kiddy accoutrements (buggy and, possibly, travel-cot) you might consider a roofbox?
I dislike flying for all the hassle and hanging around at the airport, as well as the strict timeteble for getting flights (my one experience of getting down the Giffre valley on a Saturday in Winter was dreadful), whereas driving could be a lot more relaxing, particularly if you are both happy to take turns.
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Take all you want and go by car. Don't under-estimate the huge advantage which is that kids that age with sleep pretty much the whole journey away if you get them warm and cosy in a car. All you have to do is remember to wake them up to pee if they are out of nappies. Mind you a pair of those night time nappy-pants might be a good idea if just out of nappies. I have always done the journey by car from about the time mine were 8 mths old + (now 11 years) and never had a problem driving. As they get older an in car DVD system is worth its weight in gold for journeys over about 3 hrs long.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sun 28-11-10 18:44; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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From my recollection and observations, flying can be a bit of an ordeal for the young. The eustachian tubes that connect the ear to the throat and nose don't fully open until later life and children can get really bad earache in a plane. People say "oh, but it's pressurised", it's only pressurised to the equivalent of 8000 feet and I remember the pain it caused me.
If you're okay with long car journeys, I can see a lot of advantages. Baggage allowance, rest stops, shopping etc.
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Specialman, I'd expect you to be driving on autoroutes so don't forget the tolls at about 75 € each way.
The break in journey in Essex seems a good idea. It's the time of day you intend to drive that will affect the type of journey you will get. There are plenty of car related advice threads on here, that are maybe worth a look at?
Good luck to MrsSpesh for next week.
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| Specialman wrote: |
| Yellow Pyranha - yep, £140 was just a quick price off the Eurotunnel website.... I'll check out the Tesco option. Much of a saving? Take it that it's done through clubcard points or something? |
There is another current thread discussing costs etc for driving down, but lots of people use Clubcard vouchers to pay the whole cost of the tunnel.
| Specialman wrote: |
Yellow PyranhaI'm toying with a night in Kent or at my brother's in Essex so we can get on the train relatively fresh and effectively cut down the main bulk of travelling time.
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Essex would probably not be worth it (unless close to Dartford Crossing) as it would still be over an hour to the tunnel, but you could consider a cheap hotel the other side of the channel, depending on when you cross - the Formule 1 and Akena chains are both very cheap (c£30 for a night), for instance. The first time I drove through France, in Summer admittedly, we just drove into a village around 4ish each afternoon and found a hotel, but you might wish to be more organised with a child in the party.
| Specialman wrote: |
| Yellow PyranhaDue to my back seats not folding down (I got heavy-handed with the release lever one day!!) a roof rack is a must for the board bags but may look into borrowing a roofbox if I can lay my hands on one from a mate |
I think a roofbox might give better fuel economy than just having boards in bags on the roof (someone else here will probably know), and you might also be able to get the buggy, or other clutter, in it, making the inside of the car more comfortable. If you can't borrow one, there are hire companies (roofbox.co.uk seem to have a good reputation; I've not needed anything from them for 10 years, but they were great then!), or even buy one, they are not hugely expensive. Roofboxes are also lockable, so you may feel less vulnerable leaving suff (like boards) on the roof when parked.
I'm not sure a DVD will make much difference to a child that age (but you know yours); ours didn't do much but sleep etc until he was a bit older. The thing we found was that, unless one of the adults in the car needed to stop, it was easy to forget the child's needs and keep going, so it may be worth, particularly if you are used to simply *pressing on*, setting alarms to stop more frequently - even with stops, however, we did central Herts to Grenoble between (early) breakfast and dinner.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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we recently took the ferry from newcastle to zebrugge (overnight) and then drove from zeebrugg to worgl (it took 12 hours). kids were 9 and 10 at the time and travelled fine but kept busy with dvd, nintendo, psp etc. it took much much longer than expected, we were only expecting 8-10 hours max and when it started getting dark and colder, the wiper washer froze up and it was pretty hairy. hubby was driving while i had my hand out the window with a bottle of water squirting it on the windscreen at 70mph! oh the joy lol. for extra space, we bought one of these http://www.rackinabag.co.uk/ it proved invaluble and we put a suitcase on top, but it would take skis etc and it means you dont end up with a permanent roof rack.
personally that episdoe of driving has put me off for a long time and I much prefer to fly, but like you say, it is all personal choice and you have to weigh up the pros and cons. my kids are pretty good travellers but the journey for me was very boring and I wouldnt do it again. Good luck whatever you choose.
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Why not do both? You could drive out in the car, and have your partner fly with the little man.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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We drove when our twins were 1 - they were fine and did sleep most of the way. The following year, they were 2 and there was a 3-month old as well. Again it was no real hassle.
In our experience the worst time is when they are at the 3-5 age group as they are too young to entertain themselves and too old to just sleep.
If you do drive, I would highly recommend breaking the journey and have an overnight each way.
Is whatever suits at the end of the day.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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It was with a view to getting them to sleep that we initially drove overnight, until the youngest was about 6//7. Then we found that you could drive over the day with a DVD etc. and then take an overnight break on the way down if necessary. This year we are going to overnight stop in both directions for the first time, but I would still have no problems with an overnight stop to go down (so you can ski on the first day), and then driving overnight on the way home.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Sun 28-11-10 21:07; edited 1 time in total
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Someone mentioned tolls heres a post from earlier this year with the actual cost Calais to Moutier .....
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The tolls are €72.50 about £69.00
To be precise
A26 Calais to Reims 267.2K € 20.20
A26 Reims to Villefranche limas 381.0k €28.10
A4 Reims to APRR 105.7k €9.10
A43 St Quentin F. Barriere to Chambery Nord 67k €10.20
A43 Chignin Barriere to Ste Helene Barriere 36.0K €4.90
Total €72.50 each way
Tolls charged on 02/01/2010
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You know it makes sense.
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Don't under-estimate the huge advantage which is that kids that age with sleep pretty much the whole journey away if you get them warm and cosy in a car.
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Not all of them. My 9 month old grand-daughter hates the car - she has to be very, very, tired to sleep at all and then only after a lot of moaning. When she was teeny the car put her straight to sleep - but not any more. She's very reluctant to sleep in her reclining buggy, too - she has to be completely blacked out like a budgie, and have a looooooooooooong walk. On the other hand she usually goes straight down to sleep in her cot.
I flew a lot long-haul with small kids and never had any significant problems - and a teeny little hop to Geneva or Salzburg etc. shouldn't be any problem. My sons, at 3/4 sort of age, quite liked flying and got quite bored and quarrelsome in a car. That was before the days of DVDs - some people's little darlings have their OWN separate DVDs in the back of the car these days, it seems!
I don't see why a 1 year old should need a huge amount of baggage - rather less than an older child, I would have thought. Most accommodation can provide a cot. A buggy goes free on the flight. Easily washed clothes and some emergency jars of food. Big tin of formula. A few toys. No skis, boards, helmets, game boys, MP3 players, books to read, etc etc.
The best piece of equipment for a ski holiday with small kids is a grand-parent to baby sit. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The thing I always think about flying is do you actually gain much? Do you get a days skiing back? From doorstep to final destination how long is it actually taking you. In my case, guessing as I've never actually done it, from doorstep to Gatwick, by car - Must allow 1.5hrs + safety time in case of holdups - at least 2.5hrs total, then at the airport to checkin with an hour to clear customs and to get from long stay carpark to terminal (20 mins), you must spend getting on for at least 1.5hrs at the airport. I don't know what the flight time is - must be at least 2.5hrs? Then at the other end leaving aircraft, possibly long walk through terminal, grabbing luggage finding link to transfer, easily another 45 mins. Transfer from Geneva to alps - no idea, but must eat into another 2 hrs - it took us longer when I drove it in the rush hour. So on that reckoning I think I would be in for 9hr 15 mins on an aircraft trip. Is it worth the hassle, when you can drive, taking all you need in around 10 hrs from Calais. OK, so it's a bit longer when you add on getting to Calais, but I don't think it's any less hassle (esp. if you are trying to cope with young children at the same time - there is a lot to be said for put child in car - end of story for a few hours), and I bet the airport carparking must run to at least half of the motorway tolls.
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Poster: A snowHead
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hmm, when we fly, an hour drive to Bournemouth, half hour wait, onto the plane, an hour and a bit to Geneva walk to arrivals 5 mins customs 5 mins car hire 15 mins 2 hours to Montalbert against a 12 hour door to door in the car.
But in the end, with luggage and stuff I prefer to drive and its often cheaper 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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hmm, when we fly, an hour drive to Bournemouth, half hour wait, onto the plane, an hour and a bit to Geneva walk to arrivals 5 mins customs 5 mins car hire 15 mins 2 hours to Montalbert against a 12 hour door to door in the car.
But in the end, with luggage and stuff I prefer to drive and its often cheaper
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Megamum, In the past I have beaten people flying - was pre-kids.
Now we take a couple of days, but we are in resort mid-morning on the Saturday, get the shopping done, lessons booked, skis sorted etc and are sitting having a beer in the apartment when all the transfer coaches start rolling up.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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polo99, I didn't know there was a ferry from Newcastle to Zeebrugge.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We have driven and flown, the least stressful journeys have been those when we have driven as we can stop when we need to, take whatever we need in the car etc. Flying hurt our little ones ears, and we got stuck at the airport for hours with a 8mnth old and a 4.5 year old, who got very bored.
We have an overnight stop somewhere in france and the kids now view it as part of the journey
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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It's obviously a very personal choice. I have no problem with airports and planes - I've done an awful lot of flying in the past, and quite enjoy a bit of peace and quiet and time to read a book or three. I have no problem with driving, either (and frequently do the drive to the Alps non-stop, myself). But everything is different with kids. As they say, there's two classes of travel - First Class and With Kids. And it depends on your kids. Mine were always adamant that they didn't want to drive to ski holidays - they preferred a coach as they could walk around a bit and there was a film to watch. They liked flying best though. the first time my 4 year old son flew he was beside himself with excitement. We'd done the "ladybird book" of air travel and he adored spotting the fuel trucks, the trucks with steps on the back, etc etc etc. He was far too excited to sleep, even through an unscheduled 5 hour stop in Addis Ababa. Eventually he dropped with sheer exhaustion.
Either driving or flying can turn into a bit of a nightmare when things go wrong. And having young kids make it much more difficult. Breast fed and immobile babies are very easy and once they can read, and be propped up in a corner with a good book, problem solved. In between, they can be a bit of a pain on a long trip.
A lot depends on timing - no way would I want to drive to the Alps at half term. If I had to go at half term (and that's never happened yet, in many years of holidays) I'd book early and fly.
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can be great and can be a total nightmare, depends on your kids and their like or dislike of the car/long journeys and how well you might plan it.
We've yet to fly with ours anywhere but done a fair few drives up and down to the alps (summer and winter) over the last 6 yrs.
So long as you are prepared for at least one nightmare hour in the trip you should be fine...could be just midway between service areas and need to do a change, theycould be hungry or hyper and too tired to sleep but somewhere along the line you'll probably get a toys out the pram moment.
If there is space, try spending a bit of time in the back with the wee-one, we've found that helped with a very little one. Another thing which worked was little toys wrapped up a) spend a good while getting into it and then they have something new to play with or throw at you 
Oh and one other thing to bear in mind as we founf with our boy..he'd love to sleep much of the way, so initially we'd do it in one go. Aftera long day, we'd be ready to flake out and he;d have 9hrs of energy he'd re-couped and wasnt in the slightest bit interested in the cot bed!!! Not an ideal mix for sure.
If they can see out and they enjoy the car, i'm sure it'll be fine.
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When I was young we drove down and stopped over 1 or 2 nights on the way at a formule 1, premiere classe, village hotel, all the budget types, they're alright unless you like your business class. my parents would never have been able to drive to the alps in one day - don't think I'd have been happy stuck in the car for so long either.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| polo99, I didn't know there was a ferry from Newcastle to Zeebrugge. |
sorry it wasnt zeebrugge it was ijmuiden (my bad )
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We drove with DD to Berne when she was 7 months old. We overnighted on the way just outside Reims and then on the way back we drove all the way from Berne to Calais and overnighted in Calais. I sat in the back with her when she wasn't sleeping and we used to stop every two hours or so for a stretch/toilet stop/bottle/food whatever and she was fine - she was a "Gina Ford" baby and we found that we were able to more or less stick to the GF routine during the drive. Is DS still rear facing? DD was small so was rear facing until she was 18 months old. I'm sure what made it bearable for her was that we had one of those mirrors that attaches to the back seat headrest so that we could see her in the rear view mirror and she could see us, plus she had a bit of a view of what was outside the car.
When she was 11 months old we flew to Australia and found that a cheap box of tissues was the best toy of all as she just loved pulling all the tissues out!
We have since driven to Grenoble/La Tania when she was 4. This time we overnighted at the tunnel and caught an early shuttle. We then drove (with toilet stops and lunch) straight to Grenoble. The DVD was a life saver as she watched Mama Mia 3 times and Sleeping Beauty once.
We would happily do it again but since that trip we stupidly bought a 2l petrol C-Max which just eats fuel. For the 3 of us (unless we planned to stop off and visit friends again or the Euro rate improves) it just isn't financially worthwhile for us.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
The DVD was a life saver as she watched Mama Mia 3 times and Sleeping Beauty once.
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Does she use earphones?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We have opted to fly with ours. Earliest was 7 months. We had no trouble. Make sure you give them a drink on take off and landing, and that should stop the ear ache trouble.
As to baggage allowance, when we went skiing for the first time with my eldest (when she was 17months old), we used Birtish Airways to Geneva, and with an infant ticket she still got a full baggage allowance (she is now 4 so it is worth checking they haven't changed their rules).
As to sleeping in the car. Unless we are driving after their bed time mine will sleep for an absolute max of 1hr in the car and only if they have been awake for long enough before we travel, sometimes less than that. They are currently 14months, and 4 but that has been true for a very long time. However when she was under 6months she would sleep for longer in the car.
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pam w,
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Does she use earphones?
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That's a very good point. I always found the worst thing is hearing a sound-only DVD for one you haven't seen yourself (or don't want to see).
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You know it makes sense.
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lol, copious use of the radio/cd player 'fade' button can help to keep you sane with the dvd player bleating out behind your head i find
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Both mine have always used headsets with the DVD player - I insist on it!!
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Poster: A snowHead
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We started using the train when the dc were littley and haven't looked back.
Flying = tedious hours in airports, delays and not to mention nasty carbon emissions (!)
Driving = wriggly bored children and tired parents.
Train = fun, walking about, easy to nappy change / feed etc the babes in the group and everyone gets their relaxed and rested. We've never had a delay of more than 15 mintues once we've got out of the uK rail system...................
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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flipperthesnowholedigger, How do you cross London with kids and equipment? Or cross Paris?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I agree with pam w- (as with most things).
A personal choice- we have 3 boys (9yrs to 20months) and we have flown without to much problem to many ski holidayss (complete DIY/hire care from airport, through oner run chalet- minibus pick up- to TO package) all fine. Also long haul to San Fransisco and New York (just with 2 kids).
Driving- the furthest we have gone is Pembrokeshire- which was a bloody long way and made us rethink a plan to drive to les Arcs this winter- got back from Pembrokshire and spent £1000 on flights to Chambery! We had trie dto train it to Saas Fee in th esummer but it was far too complicated (not like when I was a lad when that was the way you got to Europe).
It's up to you!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hi, have done both and prefer to drive now with ages 4 and 7 been to that area both summer and winter.
Mostly go to Samoen valley about 20mins from Morzine but from London so similar euro-route to you. Usually drive overnight leaving London at 21:00hr so the kids sleep most of the way and still stay in nightime routine for the holiday (not to be underestimated).
If you wanted to overnight I'd go for Riems as that'd be a good split from your start location and won't feel like too far the next day, it's about 560 / 580 miles from Calais and I think about 450ish from reims I think.
I always find it more "mind balanced" driving towards the morning rather than the night especially when everyone else has gone to sleep and left you to drive it!
Formula if you use it, we have taken sterilzed bottles including water and those small one shot packs of powder as you can mix it almost instantly (while they scream for it) instead of having to measure out / or those boxes of premix.
Have carried skis / boards across a cycle rack if you have a decent one no need to buy other stuff, try it out at home first though.
If you line it all up well I think it's a nice road trip and adventure, try to keep it as simple as possible though else you'll tie yourself in knots trying to use elaborate planning
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Pam W: oh yes, she certainly wears headphones which were bought at the same time as the DVD player: these ones http://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/minimice-childrenÂ’s-headphone-my-bumble-bee-prodid-2000.html as there was no way the in-ear ones would have fitted her.
Yes - you need to have snow chains. They are compulsory for when you are driving in the mountians. Fingers crossed you won't need them but police have been know to spot check.
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Cheers - any links to best places to buy them here in the UK or is it worth waiting to stop somewhere like a big supermarche on the way to purchase them cheaper?
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Internet search or ebay. Then practice putting them on in the dark and the rain/snow - seriously! One of those head torch things is a good idea, keep it in the bag/case with the chains.
You can buy them in supermarkets and filling stations but only in more common sizes - and what will you do if they've sold out?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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budget about eur45 in europe
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FAQ
