 Poster: A snowHead
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Well I've now got all the gear & have been practicing on some old skis & I'm really pleased with my edge tuning results. The base work seems to be going well but I'm a little unsure re use of the brushes.
Here's my base work routine:
1. Hot wax scrape/clean with low temperature wax. Repeat as necessary until wax scrapes clean. I'll only use base cleaner prior to a repair.
2. Brass brush for base cleaning/structuring.
3. Knock down surface with coarse & medium fiberpad (a couple of passes
of each grade).
4. Hot wax with chosen wax & leave to cool & then scrape.
5. Repeat step 4 as many times as necessary if the base needs 'loading up'
6. Nylon brush for initial polishing.
7. Horsehair brush for final polishing.
8. A couple of passes with a fine fiberpad.
9. Wipe base with fiberlene cloth.
I'm just using standard hydrocarbon wax without any fluro/overlays etc.
Is the above routine correct?
With each of the three brushes I'm doing two passes of approx 18" long overlapping strokes, with firm pressure, from tip to tail. Is this sufficient brushing, or too much or tool little?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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sufficient brass, unless you're working with one of the super-cold waxes in which case #4 should be a warm scrape.
If you're really after speed, that's nowhere nearly enough nylon or horsehair. If you're not after speed, you should really drink more beer/wine during these operations.
You don't really need the horsehair unless you're working with a super-fine structure that the nylon can't polish.
I like to clean the repair area with acetone on a cotton swab.
Explain the reasoning for #3?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Dunk, I made the mistake of giving bolide's edges and structure a full tune once and now she won't settle for anything less. Well, she might, but I'll hear about it whilst skiing, so I'm better off doing the work. She doesn't race, nor has ever wanted to.
One thing I did find useful was to keep a note card for each pair of her skis, with a record of what was done when, and space for her to add her comments after skiing. That way you can really sort out what is necessary and what isn't.
spyderjon have you noticed the vast parallels between ski waxing and shoe polishing yet? How many passes with the polish brush does a Guardsman make before a parade?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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spyderjon, are you racing? If not, quite a lot of the above routine is superfluous. Echo comprex's queries as well.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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spyderjon, Agree with PG, if you're not racing, then maybe the brass (and poss Bristle brush after wax and scrape), but not much else. IMHO if it takes more that two beers to finish the job you're working too hard ! 
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How long does wax stay on the skis when skiing? I thought that after a couple of days the wax was largely scrapped off. spyderjon seems to be putting in a lot of effort to a routine which might need to be repeated every two or three days.
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I agree with PG, Dunk and ski that's an amazing amount of work unless you've an incredible amount of time. There's no way I have that amount of time to spend.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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All, Ok, so the general concensus is that I'm doing too much. One of the problems I found for a tuning virgin like myself is that there's so many differing opinions out there so I've had to try & figure out the common elements from everyone's solutions - although I must admit that I'm a bit of a perfectionist and obviously have too much time on my hands!
PG, No I'm not racing as such but I attend a weekly race training session at Xscape, Castleford. The artificial snow there is pretty abrasive (as is the matting up the poma) so I'll be waxing weekly with a hard wax, for base protection if nothing else. My edges are now set so a weekly touch up with my medium & fine stones is all that's required.
| comprex wrote: |
| Explain the reasoning for #3? |
I bought the 'Beast' Tuning Video from The Race Place that's what they did, saying that it removed any micro fibres that had been raised from the brushing. I did notice the base was slightly smoother after that. Do I not need to do this?
How about this revised routine:
1. Hot wax scrape to clean base (one wax/scrape is going to be enough the vast majority of the time)
2. Brass brush for base cleaning/structuring (a couple of passes)
3. Knock down surface with a fiberpad (a couple of passes) - unless Comprex tells me otherwise.
4. Hot wax with chosen wax, leave to cool & then scrape.
5. Brass brush for initial polishing/structuring.
6. Nylon brush for final polishing (plenty of passes)
7. Wipe base with fiberlene cloth.
Any further comments/feedback gratefully received.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Mon 23-05-05 9:48; edited 1 time in total
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rob@rar.org.uk, by the end of a few hours' skiing skiing the soft low temp wax for warm conditions is all but gone, the standard wax for average temps just about lasts the day.
spyderjon, I wouldn't bother cleaning the base more than once a week at most. Much better to wax your skis (once) at the end of the day, scrape in the morning before you set off again rather than go through all the above palaver and expect it to last for several days - it won't. (After waxing don't leave them anywhere excessively cold or warm by the way).
It takes me no more than 5 minutes to brush/wax the skis in the evening, a quick scrape and brush the next morning (you don't need to get every last trace of wax off, especially on abrasive snow it'll be gone after a few runs).
On the other hand when I prepare race skis that takes a lot longer.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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spyderjon, Posts crossed. If a very cold wax is used for base protection, the scrape alone is supposed to remove micro fibres. I really doubt after a single session any dirt will have penetrated a base that has just been treated with a hard cold wax. Definitely leave your chosen wax for the conditions on overnight - at least. Only scrape the morning you are next on the snow.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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spyderjon,  no conflict with ^PG^ at all. Keep that plexi scraper sharp!
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| PG wrote: |
| If a very cold wax is used for base protection, the scrape alone is supposed to remove micro fibres |
Micro fibres?
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You know it makes sense.
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rob@rar.org.uk, more an issue with new skis - but from masterskier.com:
| Quote: |
Skis will never run fast if they do not have at least several coats of extreme cold wax applied to them.
New skis arrive at the store with plenty of graphite dust in the pores and coarse, microscopic hairs are left on the base from the original grind.
Warm, low melting point, waxes have great penetration in a new base. However, these warm waxes remain soft even after they dry.
When you scrape these warm waxes they are too soft to properly pull off all the coarse hairs that are still on the base.
Waxes for extreme cold conditions become very hard once they dry. When you scrape off this hard, cold wax it does an excellent job of pulling off all the old coarse hairs left over from the grind.
Some companies refer to extreme cold wax applications as “a poor man’s stone grinding” because the cold waxes help to smooth the base.
Occasional applications of cold waxes are needed in order to eliminate coarseness from a base.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rob@rar.org.uk, thinking of making rain coats ? Yes. If base material were like wood, which chips instead of tearing, 90% of the above work could be done with sandpaper. Unfortunately, each grit of the paper grabs hold of the base but doesn't cut the end still on the ski. So one is left with a fringe.
Abrasive man made snow behaves very like sandpaper. Ironically, old natural snow behaves very like a polish brush.
Summer Reading on Snow Crystals
Edit: there's a chart like this one in the Toko wax manual.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Ah, so it's a bit like women who wax their legs!
You learn something new every day.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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spyderjon, Here's what I do..
1. Clean base with wax remover - and fill/scrape any holes.
2. Brass brush for base cleaning/structuring (a couple of passes)
3.
4. Hot wax with chosen wax, leave to cool & then scrape - note for cold wax (POLAR-X, CH4) I'll use a warm wax (yellow) first, so wax twice.
5. Bristle brush - or brass if the snow is wet..
For plastic I won't bother with base structure at all.
And that's all.
If you are skiing on an artificial surface, then most of what you are doing is to protect the ski...I don't know how long Castleford is, but I imagine that 90% of your performance will be down to you. Of the remaining 10%, most will be down to the skis having some/any wax on them, and not to the structure.
I'm sure those who know will point out how wrong I am !
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| ski wrote: |
Here's what I do..
1. Clean base with wax remover - and fill/scrape any holes.
4. Hot wax with chosen wax, leave to cool & then scrape - note for cold wax (POLAR-X, CH4) I'll use a warm wax (yellow) first, so wax twice. |
ski, I was advised by the guys at Epicski & on the Beast tuning video that using a wax remover as a base cleaner wasn't recommended as it dries out the base too much. They told me to think of the base as a sponge & that with waxing you're trying to get the maximum absorbancy - If you then use a cleaner you're then pulling out the wax. I was recommended to do a hot wax/scrape with a soft wax to clean the base.
Base cleaner was however recommended to me after a stone grind to fully clean the base. Then you start again with repeated waxing to load up the 'sponge'. Base cleaner also to be used around damaged areas prior to repairing to ensure good adhesion.
I was also recommeded to apply very hard wax on top of soft wax to help absorbtion/adhesion, just as you're already doing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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spyderjon, Just to be clear, I'll apply the soft wax, and scrape quickly, idea is to keep the base hot for applying the hard wax.
I don't (upon thinking about it) use wax remover every time...but then with black bases I can't see how dirty they are anyway !
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| ski wrote: |
spyderjon, Just to be clear, I'll apply the soft wax, and scrape quickly, idea is to keep the base hot for applying the hard wax.
I don't (upon thinking about it) use wax remover every time...but then with black bases I can't see how dirty they are anyway ! |
Yep, got that re the soft then hard wax application, just as they tell me in my video - damn you must be good 
I'm told that if you hot scrape (ie wax & immediately scrape) to clean you can then see if there's any dirt in the wax that's removed. If it's really dirty then this can be repeated.
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