 Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks to all those  who helped out on the peisey thread, though unfortunately that might end up shelved for another season due to a curve ball I've just been thrown!
Background: our group which started off as a potential ten, dropped rapidly to six, and is in danger of becoming a four unless we can solve a budget problem. We'd like to salvage our holiday, so I need to pick your collective brains once more 
Two of the group have decided that they want to learn to snowboard this time instead of ski, which is fine but it means we have a bit more criteria to fill.
The challenge: transport (Manchester, Leeds or other northern departure), accommodation, beginner snowboard school, basic equipment hire, local lift pass, food. Budget £730.
The moon on a stick: a large ski area for the rest of us who like to get the miles in, on piste mostly. Will pay extra for upgraded lift pass, better equipment, but the beginner stuff needs to come in on budget.
Other stuff: 6 people, travel mid march. I know january is cheaper, but the dates don't work for us.
I have mostly only been to france, so that is the extent of my knowledge and research to date. I realise that may not be in budget, so would like to include Italy and Austria but don't really know where to start  Cervinia or the dolomites possibly?
ANY help at all would be really, really appreciated. I guess I am looking for somewhere that has a large area pass and a quite small, cheap local pass?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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This was my favourite cheap option (thanks to hells bells) but didn't have availability my dates: http://www.artsetvie.com/ Serre Chevalier - 6 day are lift pass isn't bad (£180 iirc), area great and ski school in monetier seemed cheap....Might come in under budget but only available on the 20th March?
Montgenevre is one where you can get a cheap local pass or more expensive one regional one, with a nice large network?
Les Carroz (Flaine) might come in under too, self catering. I used the mgm and i'm sure there is cheaper available.
Avoriaz? Short transfer, lots of cheap-ish self catering?
I use ski amade a lot for cheap breaks, as there is a VAST choice of accomodation at ever pricepoint under the sun. Check salzburg flights and see what you'd be left with to spend? I'm not sure about boarding schools, but assume they must have them!
Sod it and late deal it?
aj xx
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Action-Outdoors and UCPA. Plenty of options within that budget for everybody, including good tuition/guiding for the more expert amongst you.
for example this - Under £600 for everything. http://www.action-outdoors.co.uk/hol_argentiere_UCPASnowboardBeginners_26-3-2011_0.aspx
Argentiere/Chamonix - so all the terrain you could want
several very complimentary reports on the UCPA off piste holidays elsewhere on snowheads. I don't think I've read a negative report on UCPA on snowheads - and quite a lot of positive ones. You won't find cheaper.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thanks, I've calmed down a little now.
The lift pass price seems to be the killer in a lot of places, so any knowledge of large areas with cheap pass options is really helpful, and I can narrow it down from there. Just typing "Austria" into a search is a bit of a wide net!
a.j., Serre Chevalier - will take a look at that, if there's one chalet I'm sure there'll be more.
Montgenevre - I'll take a look at the pass prices, same with Les Carroz
Avoriaz - Have been to Chatel so more familiar with this area. Will take a look but have a feeling that the pass/lessons/hire combo will blow the budget unless we all sleep on the same sofa. Let's leave that thought where it is 
pam w, Hadn't considered Chamonix area as I figured it would be way over budget, but thanks for the link and I'll do a bit of research into that.
My friend has come back with an option for Soll, but I have a feeling I'll be a bit low for mid march?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Grand Vilara (sic?) area in Andorra?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Scarlet, Söll is fine in March - as it is further east and away from the milder influences of the maritime climates of France it tends to hold the snow at apparently lower altitudes than France. Just add about 300m to any of the heights quoted for Austria to get a comparison with the so-called high and snow safe French resorts and you will see that there is a correlation.
It can get warm and slushy but in the past few years we seem to be getting a lot of good snow topping things up in March. Your problem with the week beginning March 5th this year is that it is High Season in Austria, so resorts will be busy but by no means as bad as France in their Semaine de Niege weeks. It is the Fasching (Carneval) week so loads of entertainment opportunities and some really wild days on Rosenmontag and Faschingdienstag (the Monday and Tuesday) which is when they really wind up for the BIG party. From Aschemittwoch (Ash Wednesday) things quieten down a wee bit. I love being in Austria during Fasching.
I was skiing in the Söll/Scheffau/Ellmau area last year in April with no problems. I usually ski there all though March without any worries either.
Good luck with your hunt for a resort. Don't write off Austria until you've tried it! 
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Scarlet, why not have a look at La Rosiere, the lift pass for the full Espace San Bernardo which covers France and Italy is very good value and there is the option of a restricted pass covering just La Rosiere, you can buy extensions to the whole area and there are a number of free drag lifts in the beginners area. There's 160 kms of piste, about the same as Chamonix, a snow park, a dedicated and patrolled off-piste area as well as heli-skiing. Go to www.larosiere.net which is the Tourist office website for more information and a centralised booking service. You could be suprised by how far your budget will go.
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Scarlet, one of the advertisers on this site was offering all in deals - www.folgarida.co.uk Perhaps they may have something in budget. The all in price includes the smaller area ski pass and basic equipment hire. You can upgrade and pay more - the whole area ski pass offers plenty of miles and is more than enough for a week at your level.
I skied in the Trentino Alps a couple of seasons ago and, whilst not a mega resort, thought it was actually rather good.
If this is of interest, you will need to factor into the advertised price an increase owing to the operator having locked themselves into an exchange rate of €1.4 to the pound with their stock - this is mentioned in the Ts & Cs, but not on the prices page. Other than that, maybe the package will offer what you're after.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Scarlet, £730 including lift pass and food is pushing it. Unless you're going to eat sandwiches and drink water in the evening, I'd seriously look at chalet accommodation. That way you've got food and drink in the bank for 6 nights. Almost certainly cheaper than going out to eat and drink each night, unless you're planning to cook each evening, which you'd be frankly bonkers to do in 90% of SC accommodation standard 2 ring kitchens.
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If you don't mind moving away from the Alps, you could look at Andorra. The Granvallira is a decent ski area (200ish km piste) and generally good snow that time of year (we skied perfectly fine in April this year). The TOs do a good inclusive package of beginner lessons, pass and equipment, although it is slightly more for the snowboard packages.
If you deal with someone like First Choice travel agents you can push for an extra discount too.
3 of us went in the Easter school hols this year, admittedly one was a child but we didn't get much of a child discount. All travel from Gatwick, Half board, 2 x intermediate lessons (one child), lift pass and equipment. 1 x lift pass and equipment for under £2k.
It actually cost as much for equipment and pass for the OH as it did for mine and Jnr's with tuition as they seem to throw in lessons at no additional cost.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Wed 17-11-10 14:54; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Samerberg Sue, Thanks for the info about Austria, I haven't ruled it out, I'm just so unfamiliar with it that the search there is a bit daunting. If the week of the 5th is high season, will the week after be quieter, or more of the same?
davidl, Ahh La Rosiere, knew it would get mentioned eventally
A bit lower down the list as some members have skied it from La Thuile a year or so ago and would rather go somewhere different. It may be a very suitable option though.
Chasseur, All in price? Excellent! Make my price comparisons much easier. I wish more places did my adding up for me! Will check it out (I need a longer lunch break...)
Dr John, Pushing it indeed, hence the stress. We'd prefer half board/chalet catering as the price does have to include food (not on-piste food/coffee though). I usually pay £400+ for just a DIY chalet though, so wasn't really expecting to add on flights, transfers and all the ski stuff within the remaining couple of hundred. TO chalet deals seem to hit the budget before I add on the snowboard requirement - do you know something I don't about extra cheap chalets?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Scarlet, your budget is fine for half board in either Italy or Austria (can't really speak for France). Plenty of resorts/areas would fit the bill. For Italy, take at look at the Dolomite resorts or Milky Way. For Austria, Ski Welt, Mayrhofen, Kitzbuhel, Saalbach, Kaprun, plenty of options. Neilson have a 30% off sale on at the moment, which might be worth a look. I've always managed to find a great half board holiday within the budget you mention and I usually have to pay a single supplement too.
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Scarlet, as an example; last season I saw a chalet we liked in Meribel on ifyouski, so I called up. It didn't have the right rooms available but we're offered another place nearby, it was £850 including local lift pass and basic ski hire as an all inclusive. The package wasn't advertised anywhere, just happened to be available, this was with Skiworld. What I'm saying is give a couple of the TO's a call, tell them your requirements and see what they can work out. Let them take some of the stress from you.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Wed 17-11-10 15:22; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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£730 including lift pass and food is pushing it. Unless you're going to eat sandwiches and drink water in the evening
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well UCPA food is pretty good it seems, and you get lunch too. Add some cheap supermarket beers into the picture and you're fixed. If you don't fancy chamonix there are others - though not all do beginners snowboarding.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I reckon Andorra is a good bet - large ski area, but cheap lift pass and generally reasonably priced (food etc sensible) plus lots of options for ski and board schools because it is full of beginners.
Loads of options there in hotels etc, but very few chalets. I'd look for self catering apartments and you'll hit budget, spreads the cost.
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Poster: A snowHead
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There are plenty of places in France that might fit the bill. Worth looking at Risoul, cheap accommodation, lift pass is very reasonable? Serre Chevalier has already been mentioned, large pisted area, good schools for lessons. Valloire was good last year, reasonable lift pass price (full area), ESI school was pretty good, vareity of accommodation, although the Chalet du Galibier aprtments looks good, and were in a good position for the pistes, if a bit fo a walk from the centre, or try PV apartments. Les Carroz or one of the other satellite villages of Flaine? How about looking at satellite villages of other large ski areas? I have managed a weeks holiday in all these resorts in either early Februay or in March for about £600 - 700 all in, so possible if you are canny and shop for bargains online. Do check out igluski and ski horizon for cheap accommodation, or rent privately through holidayrentals, homelidays, etc.
Good luck! I think it can be done, and you could always hold your nerve for a last minute bargain, especially if there are fewer people going now.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hi Scarlet,
It looks as though you've been offered plenty of good advice. I work for Crystal Ski and we wanted to add our take on the question; the Dolomites and Austria (for example - Soll) are both good recommendations (based on what you're looking for).
To give you an idea re: meeting your budget, we currently have half board packages for around your budget (a smidge over) to resorts like Sauze D’Oulx in Italy and Soll in Austria.
Sauze D'Oulx is a good resort for beginners and intermediates and is also part of the Milky Way Ski area, meaning your lift pass will cover plenty of terrain.
The same goes for Soll (in Austria's SkiWelt) which also gives you a really wide range of skiing for all abilities.
So, yes, just about doable for your budget (with us at least). There's plenty of offers on at the moment (across all TO's) but given your transport needs and variation in skiing abilities that will limit the options.
Hope this helps?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks for all the replies. I now have a long resort list to check through with various operators and have already spent quite a few hours researching.
It seems that TO variety is really down at the moment. A few years ago, when I last used a TO, the choice of resorts and so accommodation was vast, but now many ops seem to be limited to the really big, expensive places like 3 valleys and Espace Killy, or at the other end where it's cheap but there's only 20km of runs.
It's the snowboard pack (lessons, pass, hire) that causing the trouble - anything up to £400, which blows the budget on what I would otherwise consider an reasonably priced package deal. Is there anybody else out there who offers such a thing other than Crystal, Neilson and the other major TOs? I thought I'd hit the jackpot last night, only to discover I had confused Kirchdorf with Kirchberg
Jon Paget, Thanks, the Sauze D'oulx trip might be an option, but I'll have to see if the budget can be stretched (that might be too much, unfortunately).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Chasseur wrote: |
| this is mentioned in the Ts & Cs, but not on the prices page. Other than that, maybe the package will offer what you're after. |
Please don’t make it sound as if we’re trying to hide anything
• It is mentioned 3 times on the prices page
• There is a link from the price page to a chart showing the exact (to the penny) cost
• It is printed in very big (bolded) font on every single person’s confirmation
• It is also shown on the top of every singles person's confirmation - the section where we give them to opportunity to cancel without loss of deposit if they forgot to read all the other notices.
• It is mentioned on the T&C's that people are posted when they booked (it's got a thick black line around that section - just in case they miss it.
It’s noticeable that in the 7 of the last ten years when this system reduced the actual final cost of people's holiday not one person mentioned this clause.
The "total cost" if the rate stays around what it is today would be £660 (include the pound/euro adj) per person for a "fully" inclusive trip - I don't think that too unreasonable - oh and Jan there is free ski/board school ( see the SH's advert for details or PM me) which I think makes the value OK when you consider we supply - lift pass, flights, transfers, hotel, meals, equipmnet (skis or boards), etc etc
Just one point to note is that we will soon (the end of next week) be removing all 2011 ski details and replacing them with the 2012 details so the trip will only be available for booking for about another week.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
It's the snowboard pack (lessons, pass, hire) that causing the trouble - anything up to £400,
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that's what makes UCPA so unbeatable - it's all included.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Wayne wrote: |
| Chasseur wrote: |
| this is mentioned in the Ts & Cs, but not on the prices page. Other than that, maybe the package will offer what you're after. |
Please don’t make it sound as if we’re trying to hide anything
• It is mentioned 3 times on the prices page
• There is a link from the price page to a chart showing the exact (to the penny) cost
• It is printed in very big (bolded) font on every single person’s confirmation
• It is also shown on the top of every singles person's confirmation - the section where we give them to opportunity to cancel without loss of deposit if they forgot to read all the other notices.
• It is mentioned on the T&C's that people are posted when they booked (it's got a thick black line around that section - just in case they miss it.
It’s noticeable that in the 7 of the last ten years when this system reduced the actual final cost of people's holiday not one person mentioned this clause.
The "total cost" if the rate stays around what it is today would be £660 (include the pound/euro adj) per person for a "fully" inclusive trip - I don't think that too unreasonable - oh and Jan there is free ski/board school ( see the SH's advert for details or PM me) which I think makes the value OK when you consider we supply - lift pass, flights, transfers, hotel, meals, equipmnet (skis or boards), etc etc
Just one point to note is that we will soon (the end of next week) be removing all 2011 ski details and replacing them with the 2012 details so the trip will only be available for booking for about another week. |
Other than the fact that I have directed a potential customer to you, Wayne and made one point, I'm not sure why you feel it necessary to respond on particular points not mentioned. Perhaps you feel uncomfortable about something.
But, to be clear:
The headline on your prices web page says:
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We have tried our best to give a clear, fully inclusive, cost for all our ski holidays, in fact, the only optional extra we offer is the ski school.
Most hotels (except the Caminetto) are the same price. The cost of your holiday simply depends upon the room type & date. |
At the foot of the page there is, amongst some text a mention of the exchange rate of 1.4€ to the pound. I don't have a page impression of the website when I booked, so can't comment on whether it was there then or not. Similarly, neither do I have, for the same reason, any evidence of the link under What's Not Included but, when I, and the friend of mine who booked at the same time checked following your final invoice with the 15.6% increase in holiday costs neither of us recall that particular link to the page that I now see.
The point about 7 of the last 10 years is irrelevant - you only joined in October 2008, so no-one here quite probably knew about your company or pricing model to have enabled them to post positively in your favour.
On an earlier thread, I made the comment that I should have read the Ts & Cs more carefully. At the usual "punter" quick scan, it is not obvious that the prices quoted are subject to the 1.4€ to the pound rate. I'm sure you'll beg to differ, but I'd bet money that anyone looking at your Ts & Cs for the first time could be forgiven for missing the mention.
The mention of the "total cost" today may well be £660 with the recent exchange rate, what a pleasant surprise that may have been had we not been required to pay for the holiday 70 days in advance.....when the rate meant we each paid £101.55 more.
I do concede and acknowledge that you did offer a reduction for the averaging out of ski pass prices over the low-hi season figures that you charge, and that the opportunity to pay by cheque ensures that we avoid the 2% surcharge for paying by debit cards. I also acknowledge that there are free lessons available - though quite how comfortable they may be now is a mute point. However, it wasn't me that decided to cover the issues that weren't and never may have been raised.
The included ski pass reflects the smaller area, all in our small group are competent enough to cover the full area, although the smaller area of Folgarida Marilleva is called a full area pass on the web site - of course, I refer to the full area pass that covers Madonna di Campiglio also. The hire of equipment, as you quite rightly state, is also included. It is basic level (what I assume would be rated "bronze"). All within our group would probably aspire to a higher quality or level of equipment, and appreciate fully that this would require further payment - no problem there. We all own boots, but accept that the inclusion of the cost for something we don't need is something that we will have to bear.
As the € to pound rates over the last three years or more have been less favourable, it is my view that the publicised prices ought to reflect an average much closer to reality. I don't see that anything else is remotely transparent.
Of course, as we are still due to take our holiday with Folgarida.co.uk there was always the possibility that the experience would be extremely positive. Unfortunately, because some points have now been raised that I take issue with, the cynic in me is concerned that there will now be a low-expectation starting point for the trip because of this escalation.
There is some good to come from this experience. Having tended to use some of the larger tour operators in the past for skiing, because they do often have some excellent offers without, in my experience, there being anything other than the obvious advertised price to pay, I will, in future, rigorously check the final cost if electing to use smaller businesses that may only be able to compete by taking stock so far in advance who're then being locked into long term exchange rates.
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You can't beat UCPA for value - I booked 5th March for a week in Flaine. Full time instruction, lift pass and equipment plus full board - £600. Accept it's a hostel but think of the skiing.....and money saved
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FAQ
) I believe flights come into Salzburg from most of the British airports. Aim for a later flight if you can as it can be quite a struggle along the A10 Tauernautobahn in the mid-morning/afternoon time on change-over days.
