 Poster: A snowHead
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Purely hypothetical at this stage, but my wife and I are seriously beginning to consider moving to France and are discussing the various implications etc. Lifewise, we're probably at the right time to do do it.
Annie (wife) suggested ski instruction as a possible seasonal job - makes sense. I love skiing (surprise, surprise), and much of my early career was spent in training/coaching albeit in a non sport industry.
So, my questions are:
How long, with the right dedication/time could it take to attain BASI 3, then 2 and 1?
Any idea as to cost?
Where is it best to go and attain the qualifications and are there courses aimed at fast tracking the process?
I'm sure the process is much more complex, but this will do as a starting point. Any advice would be really useful, and thanks in advance for all contributions.
Mark
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Mark, contact MelanieK, Gavin should be able to give you some advice.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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As well as having BASI qualification if you want to teach skiing in France I understand that you have to pass a French speed test by running gates against an area champion. You are only allowed to be so much time behind the area ski champions time.
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Definitely worth contacting Charlotte ("EASISKI" here). She's a BASI teacher with equivalence in France, based in 2 Alpes. She'll definitely be able to give you the low-down on the system here. Best to send here a private message, she's not that often on the forum....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Mark. I got my BASI licence a long long time ago, but the general wisdom has always been to have a chat and have a ski with a BASI trainer (i.e. a coach who trains prospective instructors). This will enable him/her to assess your skiing, and give plenty of advice and insight into what you want to undertake.
If you can track down Andrew Lockerbie (who I believe continues to run Wycombe Summit ski slope west of London) he would be an excellent guy to talk to, as he has huge experience as a trainer. Another BASI trainer I've always liked very much is Alex Leaf. Or maybe you could speak to the director of training, Peter Kuwall (son of the famed Hans Kuwall, who had a lot to do with the early years of BASI, having moved from Austria to Scotland).
It's certainly a life-changing experience, and I thoroughly recommend it. It might be a good idea to get hold of the BASI manual, to get an idea of the curriculum. I've got it in a CD Rom version, as well as the big printed version. Presumably they're both currently available.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Mark, ignore this if it was a posting from you in the first place, but there's an in-depth thread on this very topic visible in the newsgroup archives for rec.skiing.resorts.europe which is pretty comprehensive....
RSRE ARCHIVE THREAD
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Useful article PG - nice insight, thanks.
And thanks, of course, to everyone else for their input - will follow the ideas up.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The BASI course is an extremely expensive way to become an instructor. That might not be a factor for you but there are quicker and easier ways to become an instructor. For example, most Swiss ski schools (ESS) such as the one in Verbier will employ good skiers as instructors without previous experience. They will train you themselves, whilst paying you (contrast this to the 000s of pounds BASI will cost you) and give you a job for the winter with guaranteed hours.
If you follow this route you can expect to teach mostly children for your first winter (which is probably the case for a BASI instructor or trainee). As a man you are not likely to get dumped with the littlest bairns either, although this might not apply to your wife.
The money is good enough to survive on (around £9 an hour, more or less depending on exchange rates and whether you teach groups or private clients) but you will have to consider how you plan to survive the summer (saving money in resorts is possible but depends on the lifestyle you want). If you show promise as an instructor the Swiss schools will train you to the level of patenté (which is equivalent to top French instructor grading or BASI 1 with equivalence); if good you can expect to be qualified after 4 or 5 years. Racing experience helps with this.
Plently of people will shoot me down for this but the bottom line (IMNSHO) is that BASI is not necessarily a good qualification to have. Purely because it is British it carries less respect in mountain countries. On top of that it is extremely expensive and, I believe, restrictive in its outlook. I think you could find a better way to become an instructor - just my .02
edit: carnt spel
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Kurt. I wouldn't shoot you down for that. If employability is the goal, then whatever qualification you take has to make sense. Many BASIs end up working in Andorra or the Val d'Aosta for not a great deal of money. So you're quite right in spotlighting the cost of the qualification, if the aim is to repay it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Kurt is correct about the Swiss Ski School a friend of mine was working out as a bar man in Switzerland when his brother came to visit, his brother happened to be a fairly good snowboarder and was spotted on the slopes by one of the snowboard instructors who asked him if he'd like to teach ! No application required ! Anyway the ski school sorted all the paperwork and arranged the training and he didn't pay a penny, that said this chap was already a climbing instructor so was at least partly aware of the sort of things he was going to have to do but he only spoke english which you'd have thought would be a disadvantage.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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David Goldsmith, that's nice 
I should also add that I think ski instructing as a profession is changing. Progressive techniques that focus on developing the positive aspects of a skier's technique, develop and improve an effective personal style (and improve the skier's enjoyment through it) rather than rigidly teaching towards an pre-defined ideal are becoming more popular. This doesn't apply so much to beginners but is very significant to intermediate skiers, especially those that don't ski more than one or two weeks a year. Teaching methods that enable skiers to have more fun (rather disenhearten them because they don't have the "perfect" technique) are more-and-more where progressive teaching is at.
My experience of BASI instructors is that they have been taught "The way to ski" and to teach only that. IMO This attitude/teaching methodology is becoming increasingly out-dated; as time passes the BASI method will, therefore become out-dated too. I wouldn't invest thousands in a qualification that not be worth much in a few years.
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I know the French no longer give automatic equivalence to BASI qualifications as they once did ....
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You know it makes sense.
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| D G Orf wrote: |
| ...this chap was already a climbing instructor... |
Sort of releated: a summer qualification like that is very handy if you want to instruct. Unfortunately the only really stable jobs in outdoor sports (ie regular hours, over several months) tend to be with children's holiday camps. They are poorly paid and working conditions are poor; moreover, there are lots of people trying to make money this way in the summer. Summer needs quite a lot of thought from this point of view.
Also, re:summer, some countries will boot you out after the winter. For example, the Swiss do this. As a seasonal worker you typically get a 5 or 6 month work permit but have to be out of Switzerland the other six months of the year.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Only at the bottom end I think, BASI is ISIA accredited at BASI 2 level.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Is it true that BASI's politics make the SCGB's look like a model of peaceful consensus?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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DavidS, Oh yes!!!  especially if you're not scots and one of the reasons I'm looking elsewhere to continue my efforts. I don't want to do the USA route (though as a septic, living & working there's not a prob [don't get me started on politics]). So I was looking to move to France, improve my French and talk to the ESF. But It looks like there are alternatives.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Masque - You are a septic are you. Is that a septic tank or a septic fingernail.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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septic tank = yank 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Have decided to book a week's hol in Serre Che in the next 3 weeks or so and see if I can get 5/6 two and a half hour 1:1 lessons from Eurekaski in a bid to evaluate the reality of getting in the requisite experience for the BASI instructors courses.
So, fingers crossed that they'll have the space to fit me in.
Anyone else likely to be in the area around this time - will be going out without family, so be cool to hook up with anyone.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| D G Orf wrote: |
| Kurt is correct about the Swiss Ski School a friend of mine was working out as a bar man in Switzerland when his brother came to visit, his brother happened to be a fairly good snowboarder and was spotted on the slopes by one of the snowboard instructors who asked him if he'd like to teach ! No application required ! Anyway the ski school sorted all the paperwork and arranged the training and he didn't pay a penny, that said this chap was already a climbing instructor so was at least partly aware of the sort of things he was going to have to do but he only spoke english which you'd have thought would be a disadvantage. |
What's the difference between a snowboarder and a snowboard instructor?
- 10 minutes.
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Acacia I always thought it was 3 days, but maybe that's the difference between a new snowboarder and a snowboard instructor 
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Snowboard Instructor?
If it can sit down without wincing . . . it's an instructor
If it don’t reek o’skunk . . . it's an instructor
If it’s upright . . . it's an instructor
If you can tell whether it’s male or female . . . it's an instructor
If it’s not side-slipping . . . it's an instructor
If it hasn’t got its wallet chained to its nosering . . . it's an instructor
If it can actually find its wallet . . . it's an instructor
If it doesn’t measure time by the sun . . . it's an instructor
If it’s on the hill before midday (powder days excepted). . . it's an instructor
If it creams past you whilst simultaneously texting a mate and picking its nose . . . it's an instructor
If it doesn’t fall over on the chairlift off-slope . . . it's an instructor
Apologies to old mates who all meet these criteria – and one who doesn’t (eh Chris?  )
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Masque, and what about ski-instructors, especially ones who can get non-skiers carving red runs in 3 days. Did I produce my wallet?
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I could say it was my enormous natural talent . . . yeah, right, I can hear the sniggering from here. But I will say a ‘huge thanks’ for your time, patience and expertise. However I must repay the favour, It’s time you strapped on a snowboard . . . he he he!
Twigged what the slalom gates were for at the end of the week, the ESF speed tests. Now there’s a thought, try it on skis and a board. I wonder if anyone’s achieved the Gold fleche with a snowboard?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Masque, They don't let you do the flèche etc, but there is a boardercross test at some of the bigger resorts, such as Courchevel.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I sense discrimination here!!! I wonder if they'd allow an unofficial attempt? (I’ll smile sweetly)
Now bordercross is a different ball game - a full contact sport at 30 mph - JOY! You up for a beer, pizza and a natter 3rd. week in April?
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Intresting idea Masque, in Wengen on the Lauberhorn race track they have a speed gun that anyone can use, I stood and watched a mixed group of skiers and boarders come through it one day, despite many of the boarders appearing to board better than their skiing friends not one of the boarders came close to the faster skiers, typically the skiers were coming through the gates at 80+ kph, wheras the fastest boarder was about 10 kph slower, even though he looked faster coming down the hill, this would seem to put boarders at a disadvantage in speed tests, unless of course anyone else knows better ?
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You know it makes sense.
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Masque, Could well be, a lot of racing crammed into the end of the season for the kids between Val d'Isère and Méribel, but I'll be around.
The boardercross 'technical test' they just send you down on a timed run I think. You're right, boarderX (and skierX) proper are great spectator sports. They start a bit early though in France, last year there was a big meet in Orcières Merlette we went to, for 10-14 year olds.... One disclocated hip, a couple of broken ribs and one multiple fracture (not my kids fortunately). Big prizes in these events - daughter came away with a wide screen tv for finishing third! But I reckon they're not mature enough, haven't yet got the nous to brake a little to avoid collisions, etc. Big controversy, but they're going ahead this year. We're giving it a miss.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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D G Orf, boards feel inherently less stable than skis when straightlining and with a greater surface area to create drag. but a narrow alpine board driven with 'gusto' should be a close match. + when you stack with a board at speed, the bindings don't release and there's a lot of inertia and a lot material to catch on the snow. Some of the speed differential is down to the size of your cojones or leaving your brain in the chalet for the day to sleep off the night before. Got to say high speed is a more stable condition on skis. Still think I'd like to try a measured comparison on a GS course.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Length of deck is also crucial. The fastest sliding unpowered sliding objects on earth are 240cm speed skis. I'm looking forward to seeing a really long snowboard - what are the longest made? (I should know this but I don't)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks for that Masque, as a non boarder it's sometimes difficult to understand the stability issues you guys have, mind you one of the fastest chaps on the mountain I know is my friend Nando, once nicknamed sonic the hedgehog, due to his incredible speed on a snowboard combined with his haircut !
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Masque,
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Some of the speed differential is down to the size of your cojones or leaving your brain in the chalet for the day to sleep off the night before
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.... you're definitely a candidate for a future world championship then, going by some of your stories!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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David Goldsmith, longest one I've ever seen being used was about 2M (nearly a foot taller than me - but I'm shrinking). And yes you should know!
D G Orf, "as a non boarder" well isn't it about time you learnt about the grace, the elegance and the freedom afforded to yer dangly bits by the baggy pants of boarding (the coolness keeps your little swimmers wriggling longer, which is why the ‘board’ will take over the mountains - we’ll out-breed you ALL!!! HA HA HA . . . . . pause for medication)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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PG, Do they have a 'senior' tour
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Masque, Skiing's far more organised in that respect. Masters/Seniors have their own podiums for placings in most grand prix races in France, for example. No idea how it functions for boarding, I'm afraid....
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Masque nothing I'd like better than to be able to slide down a mountain in those nice comfortable snowboard boots, unfortunately my wierd sense of balance means I'm about as likely to stay upright on a snowboard as I am to see a Dodo walking down the street 
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PG: After 3 days on skis, I'm up for it . . . excuse me I need to find a bicycle pump, I can feel things deflating downstairs!
There’s nothing as structured in boarding now and the FIS is the only org running a true world tour. I’ve had a couple of short finals in small local open boarderX events (truly more by good luck than any skill) and I won a Burton hoody last year for being “completely out o’your gourd man”. I just recon that for a 50 year old, a snot nosed 15 year old is softer to crash into than an ice berm.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The pioneers of snowboarding - Jake Burton Carpenter, Tom Sims, Dimitrije Milovich (inventor of the Winterstick) and others must be in their late 40s / early 50s now, so the seniors community is there!
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Bloody hell, this is an old one..............
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FAQ
