 Poster: A snowHead
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I have to choose between HEAD Raptor 150 ( 2009 ), new TECNICA Diablo Inferno 150 or NORDICA WC 150. Are there any difference in stiffness between these boots ? If they vary in stiffness, how to rate them, from stiffest to softest.
I have to buy on line and have no chanse to test, am looking for stiffest one.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Dare one ask why - best shell fit/bootfitter n all that?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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6'10''/210 lbs
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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fatbob, maybe because the OP is outside of the UK? They might be in the middle of nowhere, but that still shouldn't prevent buying in resort I guess 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Megamum, Lets assume its a he or a total Amazonian. He's buying race spec boots which usually need a fair degree of modding so either he's got a bootfitter lined up, in which case they'd have answered the question or its a try and fit boots by the internet. Or a third scenario which is why I asked.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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MG, why do you want the stiffest one? I know why my wife does, but it's purple.
6'10''/210 lbs is no answer as I have just come off the Nordica 150 and I'm 5'6" and 140lbs...
Anyway, according to those who know, 150 is 150. More importantly, again according to those who know, the Head and Nordica are identical and the Tecnica is really very different.
Why not just go visit a good bootfitter?
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Megamum, fatbob was being nice. Basically the OP s a moron, buying the 'stiffest' of three boots (which should all be identical in 'stiffness' anyway) rather than which one actually fits, kinda gives it away.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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fastandicy, He was only 5'4" back in January.
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rjs, that's the problem. Kids these days are growing up so quickly 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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He just has a larger customer this time, assuming he still has the same part time job.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| parlor wrote: |
| Basically the OP s a moron, buying the 'stiffest' of three boots (which should all be identical in 'stiffness' anyway) rather than which one actually fits, kinda gives it away. |
I really love your attitude. Good boot fitter is only way to go, and flex index is standard thing.  How many different boots did you actually see, and how many REAL boot fitters did you actually see? With real, I don't mean, I can tell you what is your right size boot, "fitters", but those who know what they are doing... especially when it comes to race boots.
For race boots, you buy right size and you go from there on. It's as simple as that. And for this, you can easily buy on-line. There's no race boot which would fit out of store/factory. You need a whole lot of work for real race boot to fit, and then it really doesn't matter if it takes another hour more or less to fit them properly. End of discussion.
When it comes to flex, 150 is not 150. 150 is not 150 even inside of same company, and even less between different companies. So no, these 3 boots are far from identical when it comes to stiffness.
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| rjs wrote: |
| fastandicy, He was only 5'4" back in January. |
YES I am still 5'4" but didn't say I'd like to buy boots for me - I need info from first hand, from users.
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You know it makes sense.
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MG, sounds like your intentions are entirely honorable by trying to give your clients the best service you can... also sounds like you have a higher standard of customer care than the company you actually work for and are making money for.
also sounds like you could do with moving to the mountains and getting a job as a "junior" boot fitter and learning the trade properly rather than struggling by where you are. you sound like you have the enthusiasm for it...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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primoz, I have skied in my race boots with no modifications at all with a 5mm fit and only have had a couple of spots blown out now. I would still prefer to have the work on them done by somebody who knows what they are doing
I know somebody with a pair of Head Raptor 150 boots that were twisted so badly while being stretched that they barely fit into the bindings.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
When it comes to flex, 150 is not 150. 150 is not 150 even inside of same company, and even less between different companies. So no, these 3 boots are far from identical when it comes to stiffness.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| rjs wrote: |
| I have skied in my race boots with no modifications at all |
Personally I never could. At least not with real race boots (no matter what someone says, "race boots" you get in (normal) stores, are nowhere near real race boots). But I believe someone might have so uniform foot, that it fits straight into particular boot without any modifications. Rest of us, don't have this luck. But no matter what, doing some fitting on your boot is not really rocket science. But then again... if someone has problems waxing his own skis already, then I agree... let's rather leave boot fitting to someone else 
PS: I have no idea what's history with OP, but based just on this question is a bit weird to pronounce him as moron, especially with argument given in "explanation" why he is suppose to be moron.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| shoogly wrote: |
MG, sounds like your intentions are entirely honorable by trying to give your clients the best service you can... also sounds like you have a higher standard of customer care than the company you actually work for and are making money for.
also sounds like you could do with moving to the mountains and getting a job as a "junior" boot fitter and learning the trade properly rather than struggling by where you are. you sound like you have the enthusiasm for it... |
You are not far from truth... I have a V.I Client , we narrowed choice to Head, Nordica and new Tecnica Inferno ( all 95 mm last ) and I opt for Head Raptor. No fitters here in our area so I will have to do all fitting job, if necesary. I grinded a few shells so far and my customers are pretty satisfied.
Yes I am enthusiast and I love the sport...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| Quote: |
When it comes to flex, 150 is not 150. 150 is not 150 even inside of same company, and even less between different companies. So no, these 3 boots are far from identical when it comes to stiffness.
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Comment Steve, please. Here is your (?) tekst from 2007, I don't remember where I have it from but I am pretty sure it is yours, great info BTW, do you have " upgrade " to ?
...Ok, ski boot flex is a massive issue. Well everyone talks about it alot, so here we go. I'm not a scientist by any means but have been working with the manufacturers for a good few years.
Since 2004, i've been working with a commitee to standardise 'Boot' Properties.
We aimed to achieve a few goals:
Standardise; Flex ratings, tool dimensions and indications.
This means; the the same flex ratings for all brands, screw sizing(3mm and 5mm) and a common plasic thickness across the Forefoot(metatarsals).
First we agreed the sizing, 26.5 is the standard to which we test (all brands).
This enables us to work within a constant, there is only the Atomic B series that requires translation.
Second, we agreed a test to deturmine flex, or resistance( this is the science bit, help needed!)
Third, we agreed to standardise parts(tools), for replacement parts.
Fourth, we set a date.
As of 2006 each manufacturer conforms to these ratings for at least 85% of their range.
It's still a bit soft, but in principal, every manufacturer agrees.
The flex test.
Every boot using BASF Poly-ether will warm the boot to 22 degrees c. The boots will be closed, with liner, to the average(middle)position(teeth and micro adjustment), the boot will be flexed 30,000 times through 10 degrees(angle). We will measure the resistance in Kn expended and divide by 30,000. This will give us a resistance in Kn per flex and indicated by model.
ie, a Nordica Doberman 130 requires 130kn of force to flex the boot 10 degrees at 22 degrees Celcius. This is the same now for every brand. No exeption.
This is important, however the differece between this plastic at -15 and +15 is a factor of 5, therefore your 100Kn skiboot may have a resistance of 100kn in the shop but around 500kn at -15. therefore this descussion is worthless with your boot fitter without consideration of weight, height and spped.
Why 22 degrees c? Because that's the optimum temperature for this kind of plastic. The ski industry is tiny with regards to the types of plastic available. There are 22 pairs of Doberman in every Peugeot 206, the automotive industry is way more profitable!
Tooling is easy and will be phased in more slowly, 3mm and 5mm screws are simple and cheap, therefore supplies need to be expended before standards will be adheared. 2011.
Other plastics are used, be aware of this and it's more important than flex, given Poly-ester, Poly-ether, Poly-Propelyne and Pebax can change a huge amount given changes of temperature.
In conclusion, fit is everything, flex is too subjective, unless your bootfitter is a chemist...
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