 Poster: A snowHead
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I've finally decided to take the plunge and buy some ski boots, but want to select something that I can progress with. My skiing to date has been mostly on piste, with a reasonable amount of "near piste", although in my darker years I did a fair amount of off piste snow boarding. I am looking to progress my skiing from advanced intermediate to do more off piste and work towards ski touring / mountaineering over the next couple of years with aspirations of skiing the likes of the Haute Route etc. I have a plan 
I would like some boots that will 'grow' with my skiing ambitions, that will be perform well on piste but also capable of being good on the up. A few places have recommended the Salomon Quest range, specifically the Quest 12 and Pro Pebax (subject to fit of course!) but I see that these have had some early product recall issues and bad press re compatibility with Dynafit low tech bindings and one serious accident.
Three questions:
- Are these boots any good / do they warrant the negative press?
- Is the lack of Dynafit compatibility something I should be wary of? (I intend to continue renting skis for the short term at least)
- What else would people recommend, given that I will probably be working towards spending 50:50 between on piste and ski touring / mountaineering?
It looks as though the following have a reasonable range of ski touring related kit:
- Backcountry UK, Leeds (although not sure when I will be able to get up there)
- Lockwoods, Leamington Spa
- Snow and Rock, Kensington branch
Is there anywhere else I should be looking?
Ta
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I do alot of ski touring and have come to love Dynafit for a good mix of light wieght boot and on-piste stiffness (obviously the best touring boot isn't also the best piste boot - they are greatly improved from the old ones, but your just can't get light, stiff, flexible on the way up, adjustable etc... all into one boot). Their skis are also great. I have a pair of Dynafit Seven Summits (the skis used to ski tour the worlds seven highest peaks), which give enough width for floaty powder situations and reasonable piste use but light enough to take on long touring routes. But again they are light and subsequently twitchy on fast hard piste. There is a great shop based in the Pyrenees who have an excelent range and who delivery to the UK http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/en/ We seem to have alot of specialist shops down here as it is a very popular spot to get out into the wild mountains that touring opens up.
Best of luck.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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If I were you I'd look at something like the Dynafit Titan or the Black Diamond Factor. These both have swappable sole plates and can be used with alpine or touring bindings. They supposedly have pretty good skiing performance for a touring boot.
Although Dynafit might not be top of your list now, if you really get into touring, you will find yourself gravitating that way and you'll be happy not to have to buy new boots at this stage!
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Get the gear when you're ready. In the meantime stick with alpine skis, boots and bindings.
You can always rent touring gear if needs be.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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depends on whart you are looking for ...hike and ride there is the tracker from atomic, and the quest from salomon, both great alpine and walk mode but no low tech compatibility or we also have dynafit titan and Z Zero 4 which have the low tech compatability and are a good bit lighter
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Garmont Shogun IMO is the best with Dynafit compatibility. Alpine overlap, low volume, poly ether, not the lightest but has by far the most 'Apline Boot-Like flex.'
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| Nath wrote: |
| - Is the lack of Dynafit compatibility something I should be wary of? |
Certainly! As others have said, you'll be kicking yourself later on otherwise.
IMHO, S&R's backcountry collection is not great. But if you want to add another couple of UK shops to your list try:
http://www.braemarmountainsports.com/
who have good shops in both Braemar and Aviemore. There's a great cafe above the Aviemore shop too!
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| Garmont Shogun IMO is the best with Dynafit compatibility. Alpine overlap, low volume, poly ether, not the lightest but has by far the most 'Apline Boot-Like flex.' |
i'm very pleased with mine after receiving exactly this sort of sales pitch from the SMALLone this time last year.  they won't work (safely) in alpine bindings though
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Although Dynafit might not be top of your list now, if you really get into touring, you will find yourself gravitating that way and you'll be happy not to have to buy new boots at this stage!
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I have a boot quiver as a result of making exactly that mistake. Pricey. 1400 vertical metres in alpine boots (with foam liner), fat skis and Naxos up the vallon de Fontenil convinced me that Dynafit was a good idea. Incidentally, that is a cracking tour - starts from a little village between Monetier and the Lauteret - is marked on the relevant map.
Assuming you enjoy skiing powder, you will probably enjoy touring. Furthermore, with powder competition being what it is, you will want to be hiking quite soon in your off-piste career.
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
Get the gear when you're ready. In the meantime stick with alpine skis, boots and bindings.
You can always rent touring gear if needs be. |
I agree with Mike. If you buy touring only boots, they'll be incompatible with alpine bindings (the bindings don't release as reliably with sticky vibram soles as they do with slippery plastic alpine soles), and in most places in the alps you'll struggle to rent skis with touring bindings. Although out and out tourers swear by dynafit, they don't release as safely as alpine bindings. If you're learning of piste, and expect to have a few tumbles, you'll want your bindings to release safely. You can go the way SZK suggested and buy interchangeable soles, but I think in some ways you get the worst of both options, rather than the best, although SZK sees more of these boots than I do. Also, they're expensive. Buy good alpine boots now (much cheaper initial outlay), and buy AT boots when you've done some more off piste and know exactly what you want from them.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Is there any significant difference between the Garmont Radium and Shogun products? As far as I can tell they are the same boot, but the Radium is made of Pebax and the Shogun isn't. Are they the same last? SZK?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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same last
Radium = Pebax
Shogun = PU
Radium has more elaborate buckles (which apparently sometimes freeze up)
Last year at least, the Shogun only came with the Padlock liner, which isn't the greatest. The Radium was available with the better G-fit liner. I chucked the liner and initially just used the liner from my alpine boots which worked ok. I now have some thermoformable Palau liners in there which need a little tweaking in the toe area to make some more room but will be purrrrrrfect once that is done
dunno whether it is still the case but the Shogun was > EUR100 cheaper than the Radium last year so you could get the Shogun + good aftermarket liner for about the same as the Radium with stock liners
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Chamcham, The release issue is an Resort Myth, it engages better with the binding, the real issue is with pre release. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Arno, As you said, pretty much. If you really need to save weight, go for Radium, if you want a better 'skiing' boot go for Shogun as Arno has said, with a few trimmings to tweak the fit. Personally I advise my clients to save weight on skis and bindings and other equipment, thereafter, the boot does what it should. never compramise weight over function or fit where possible.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| Chamcham, The release issue is an Resort Myth, it engages better with the binding, the real issue is with pre release. |
Can you explain this please?
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Poster: A snowHead
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The standard height of an alpine AFD(anti friction device) is 33mm, a touring binding, 37mm due to the need for a cambered SOLE (on a rando boot.) to aid hiking, toe off. Most alpine bindings have no height adjustment, and thus, forcing a touring SOLE into one will put the binding under stress and thus give the spring the impression you are falling (Pre Release.). A second further shock our similar amount of energy will force the binding to release completely.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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SMALLZOOKEEPER,
Interesting. So, from your description, it prereleases in stressful situations, and presumably, the higher you tighten the DIN setting, the worse it becomes, as the binding becomes even more stressed?
And is there no truth in the "stickiness" of the sole not allowing the toe of the boot to slide sideways?
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Chamcham, For sure the rubber touring SOLE will be forced onto the afd, but due to binding height. However the fact that the binding will be in the 'pre release' phase is a bigger concern, most afd's are mobile and as such, the friction here is unlikely to 'trap' the boot in the binding due to the fore mentioned problem. I'm not saying in some cases, with exceptionally high din settings, and a worn SOLE this isn't possible, just not the primary issue.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, Cheers dude.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER,
Thanks for that
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Hi Nath, seems i am not the only one with a desire to push out the boundaries of where i ski, I have been researching this topic for 9 months now and am on the brink of purchasing either : DALBELLO VIRUS TOUR or DYNAFIT TITAN, i have tried to Virus on and bounced around our local shop in them and was surprised at just how firm they were also how flexible they are in walk mode, listening to Glen Plake talk about the R&D on this boot i am seriously tempted ! ( YOUTUBE Glen Plake Dalbello Virus )
HOWEVER then there is the TITAN .... everyone i have spoken to has said this will be the "do it all" boot i am looking for, while it may be a bit heavier than the VIRUS it seems to tick all the boxes i need. It is also a 4 buckle boot with power strap more like a traditional Alpine boots, the VIRUS operates a radical Cabrio design with 3 buckles and no powerstrap I did feel a bit of heal lift but to be fair didnt . Its suggested the TITAN rates at around 130 and the VIRUS 100 -110. On looks the VIRUS gets it for me but on spec for what i ( and may be you ) are after i would say the TITAN.
The skis the boots shall be driving are SCOTT CRUISAIR 176 with FRITSCHI FREERIDE PRO binding, I am 6'2" weigh 90kg, my local ski shop (which are BRILLIANT) are SNOWFIT near NORWICH NORFOLK
Hope that hasnt thrown a spanner in the works to much !
Chris
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Re: the heal lift in the virus : to be fair didnt have a footbed in the boot .....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Anyone know if the fit for the Garmont Radium and/or Shogun is the same as the Adrenalin?
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DB, Completey different shape and construction, way way better all round, go for shogun, Radium is a bit on the soft side and made from Pebax, Adrenalin is Poly ether, like the Shogun.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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<< Is trying some Dynafit Titans later todayCEM,
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| DB, Completey different shape and construction, way way better all round, go for shogun, Radium is a bit on the soft side and made from Pebax, Adrenalin is Poly ether, like the Shogun. |
Thanks, looking to go for Shoguns with tech inserts (TLT) and finally switching over to dynafit bindings. Was hoping I could just order the same size boots as my Adrenalins. If the adrenalin fits what other top quality touring boots might fit my low volume feet?
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Thu 25-11-10 14:12; edited 1 time in total
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DB, the shoguns are quite low volume as touring boots go - certainly a much snugger fit than my old Scarpa Spirit 4s. are you able to find somewhere to do a shell fit? you could use a radium because the lasts are the same
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You know it makes sense.
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DB, It's pretty much the lowest volume shell for touring out there, the fore foot of the titan is a little narrower, however, the heel is wider and it's not an alpine overlap, despite it saying so on the boot. The Titan is a beast though, however if sticking to Dynafit bindings, i'd stick with the shogun and get the work done.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Arno wrote: |
| DB, the shoguns are quite low volume as touring boots go - certainly a much snugger fit than my old Scarpa Spirit 4s. are you able to find somewhere to do a shell fit? you could use a radium because the lasts are the same |
Yes I can trawl the local sports shops, just thought if the lasts were the same I might not need to. Good to know the Shoguns and radium are the same last as the Radium looks to be more commonly stocked.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| DB, It's pretty much the lowest volume shell for touring out there, the fore foot of the titan is a little narrower, however, the heel is wider and it's not an alpine overlap, despite it saying so on the boot. The Titan is a beast though, however if sticking to Dynafit bindings, i'd stick with the shogun and get the work done. |
I do like being able to change to alpine soles so I use only one boot for everything (including testing skis) so was thinking of trying the Dynafit Zzeus TF-X 10/11 - does the Shogun perform a lot better? is the Dynafit Zzeus TF-X 10/11 for a larger volume foot?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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DB, Titan or Shogun for my money, Titan if you want that 'test skis' function, Shogun if not, it's the nearest thing to a real alpine boot, no doubts about it.
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FAQ
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