Ski Club 2.0 Home
Snow Reports
FAQFAQ

Mail for help.Help!!

Log in to snowHeads to make it MUCH better! Registration's totally free, of course, and makes snowHeads easier to use and to understand, gives better searching, filtering etc. as well as access to 'members only' forums, discounts and deals that U don't even know exist as a 'guest' user. (btw. 50,000+ snowHeads already know all this, making snowHeads the biggest, most active community of snow-heads in the UK, so you'll be in good company)..... When you register, you get our free weekly(-ish) snow report by email. It's rather good and not made up by tourist offices (or people that love the tourist office and want to marry it either)... We don't share your email address with anyone and we never send out any of those cheesy 'message from our partners' emails either. Anyway, snowHeads really is MUCH better when you're logged in - not least because you get to post your own messages complaining about things that annoy you like perhaps this banner which, incidentally, disappears when you log in :-)
Username:-
 Password:
Remember me:
durr, I forgot...
Or: Register
(to be a proper snow-head, all official-like!)

Boot modding the DIY way - Flex adjusting?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I've finally taken the hint from a number of people that my Nordica Beast 12's need to be more flexible.
I was told that my local shop could do this for me but being a keen DIY'er I would like to do this mod myself.
Looking inside my boots there are two slots on the back inner cuff of the boot with one side showing an imprint of the slot being longer with letters running down the side - A, B, C, D.
What I would like to do is extend the slot using a hacksaw/coping saw down to D and then copy on the other side to match.

Looks straight forward but am a bit unsure as to how to deal with the rivets to release the upper cuff, either in entirety, or just releasing the back rivet only, stretching out the front outer cuff flaps and rotating the cuff right forward over the entire boot to expose the inner rear cuff for butchery.
The rivet on the back rear cuff does not match up with the external flex adjuster so was wondering if there was a magic handshake of the external flex adjuster allen bolt that would allow the back fixing to release?
On the picture below is shown in red where the inernal rivet is above the external flex adjustment bolt.


If anyone who has any experience of doing this work can offer any advice on helping me achieve my objective would be gratefully received.
"Get the bootfitter to do it" is not an option Wink

Thanks
ski holidays     
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rockyrobin, Have you tried skiing with the 2nd buckle loose/undone ? This gives more flex, without changing the boot. WD40/GT85 can help to ease flex too..... Puzzled
snow report     
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
ski, it may give more flex, but it gives less control, because you would be flexing within the boot, not flexing with the boot.

rockyrobin, the marks you've shown are correct. Given that your boot is riveted together, it would be easier to create the grooves with either a router, small angle grinder or perhaps garden secateurs.

I'd also suggest removing, or reducing the height of the rear spoiler (the purple thing in the photo)

A final adjustment is to remove some of the front of the cuff. This may be preventing forward flex because the cuff is hitting the top of the foot part of the boot (can't think of the proper name for that bit right now!)

If I remember, I'll post pictures later of what it looks like when done to a Technica boot.
snow report     
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
rockyrobin, I little hand held 'Dremel' router will do the job in situ if you're careful. They also have a little flexi-shaft for awkward corners.
Re riveting a boot to meet manf. strength standards may not be possible at home?
ski holidays     
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
ski, Funny you should mention that. Yesterday I was told to nip my bottom and top buckle only leaving the two middle ones almost undone.
This indeed helped allow the boot to rotate at the pivot better inducing more flex. I'll give your WD40 a try net time I go sliding. Hope I won't leave an oil slick on the slope though Laughing

Wear The Fox Hat, Thanks for the tips. I can see now how it should be possible to do without dismantling the boots Smile
Time for a rummage in the garage and potting shed methinks Laughing
I'll see if I can beat you to it with the piccy of finished article.
snow report     
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Masque, Thanks for the idea of the dremel. I've always wanted an excuse to get one. I'll go and see if I can pick one up this afternoon.
Cheers Smile
snow report     
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Bear in mind adding / increasing the size of the slots will reduce boot strength, I suggest removing a smaller amounnt and gradually increasing the slot size rather than doing it all in one go, it is quite possible that other parts of the boot will act on the stiffness so just remove a little bit and test, bear in mind it will be impossible to put material back
latest report     
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Wear The Fox Hat wrote:

If I remember, I'll post pictures later of what it looks like when done to a Technica boot.


High resolution, please? Madeye-Smiley
snow report     
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Hello again,

Got the dremel sorted but found that the difference wasn't that noticeable doing a bit at a time Sad
In the end I worked my way up to taking out the whole depth of the marked slot and also removed the material to the side that was flapping in the wind.
Now I can actually flex my boots at last! snowHead
Its not pretty but appears to have worked:-


Will let you guys how they ski next week compared to before.
Thanks for the advice.

RR snowHead
snow report     
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
RR, looks reasonable, you're a brave soul! Is the flex fairly uniform now?

As that boot ought to have the laceup liners, can you put the shells (not liners) in the freezer for a slightly more accurate test?

For my own leg, I would follow WTFH's advo and take that pink thing out, but I like an upright boot.

Wear The Fox Hat wrote:

If I remember, I'll post pictures later of what it looks like when done to a Technica boot.


You're not off the hook, buddy.
ski holidays     
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
comprex, I won't feel too brave if I find i've messed the boots when I try them on snow Wink Not out of the woods yet Laughing
I would pop them in the freezer like you say but I don't feel like the earbashing I would get if caught in the act. A peacful weekend need not be disturbed Smile
Now I can stand in them bare and push my knees forward and the boots flex. When on the ski's they really flex. The more i push my knees forward the more they flex till the front lower cuff just about bottoms out. I don't feel they're too soft. Can't be any worse than the stiffness they were before.
I originally thought that the flex adjuster on the back was a gimmick but now appears to work too so will have a play with this on Monday on snow.
Should I be tweaking this to make the boots flex travel stop just before the cuff bottoms out or should I be doing as suggested and butchering my front lower cuff too?

Will removing the spoiler pull me more upright?
I used to be an expert in back seat driving Laughing so don't want to encourage an upright stance again.

I'm curious about these laceup liners? Are these laceup liners new to the 05/06 model? I thought the laceups were for the Speedmachine's only.
Reason I ask is these boots are a 26.5 shell with 26.5 liners and i'm looking out for someone who does a 26 shell for these boots.
I've emailed Nordica about this and also about getting the size 26 footbases to go under the liners but they appear to be ignoring me Sad
snow report     
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.








And this basically shows what was removed...



Images resized by mod 04 June 2005
ski holidays     
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
rockyrobin wrote:
Should I be tweaking this to make the boots flex travel stop just before the cuff bottoms out or should I be doing as suggested and butchering my front lower cuff too?

Will removing the spoiler pull me more upright?
I used to be an expert in back seat driving Laughing so don't want to encourage an upright stance again.


Hmm, too many factors there for a pat answer. I'd have an instructor look at my stance before further work.

Quote:

I've emailed Nordica about this and also about getting the size 26 footbases to go under the liners but they appear to be ignoring me Sad


Ah, welcome to the club, pull up a chair, have a brandy, the cigars are over there.

I couldn't find anyone who has Beasts any longer let alone 26. There is Altrec and yes, I was tempted to just order. That is the Beast, not the Beast 12, I know, but the Beast 12 is even rarer for us apparently.

Apologies for the brandy; it is only VS as I'm saving pennies for new Atommons next season.


WTFH, did anyone measure your ankle range of motion before they did this?
snow report     
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
comprex, They skied with me, then measured various joints and stuff. Can't remember what ankle movements were measured.
snow conditions     
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Wear The Fox Hat, Thanks for popping the piccys up Smile
It looks like your boots give you a lot of forward flex from those piccys.
Do you find that if you flex the boots to the max you feel like your going to go over the front while skiing giving you the ability to push the tips out in turns if giving it too much?

comprex, I'm having a lesson on Tuesday and Thursday with two different instructors so will see what they both say. I do hope they give me the same answer Laughing
Hehe, I don't drink i'm afraid, but seeing as its virtual noone will know Wink Cheers Laughing
Cigars? That'll be pushing the virtual vices too far Laughing

When I tried the Beast 10's they were a perfect fit. The Beast 12's IMO are slightly larger for the same size so I reckon I could go down a size liner in the shells I have now if I could get the shellbases to match. I noticed my shells have 26.5/26.0 stamped on them so assumed the liners and bases were the only difference.
Surely you can get these as spares for your boots? I was wondering if Nordica were ignoring me as they weren't bothered about offering after sales support/spares for their customers?
Seeing as they ignored you too has you wondering if a trend is developing here? rolling eyes

If you reckon you could live with Beast 12's in a size 25.5, bearing in mind my finding a bit bigger size for size than the beast 10's, REI still have some left in quite a few sizes and they're pretty cheap too.
I think they have some other Beasts so may be worth a looksee.
snow conditions     
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
rockyrobin, the new nordica parts store link was just posted over on Epic. Just now it seems to be running off the US site only www.nordicausa.com I had to go to IE to open the consumer parts store here. Very quirky behaviour, and they have no liners, but it might be something to keep an eye on.
latest report     
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
comprex, Thanks for the linky Smile
I'm sorry I cannot take advantage of it though as i've jumped ship again.
I feel kind of embarrased about it but i'm on yet another pair of boots in that quest for the holy grail Laughing
This time i'm playing with a pair of Salomon 1080 Boots. I'm beginning to see how Emelda Marcoss felt Laughing
My Beasts ended in disaster sadly as I had loads of flex, but then hit a brick wall. Bin material sadly Sad
My new boots go in next week to have the rivets removed and the "V" removed from the backs. Getting very close to the ideal boot now I hope as this is costing me a bit more than I would like Sad
Will this saga ever end? Crying or Very sad
snow report     
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
rockyrobin, at least it was a brick wall, not cement! What caused that fit of fury?
snow conditions     
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Has anyone any thoughts or seen any guidance to the amount of flex required and how to measure the range of movement etc.

Having read a lot of the threads here and on Epic and Witherell's 'The Athletic Skier' I cant seem to find a consensus on how much flex, what the ability to flex is meant to do and where the force causing the flex is generated.
snow report     
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
comprex, Bootfitters selling me boots that are so stiff that I cannot get the ankle flex I need? Puzzled Laughing

mesk1, I recently did a Warren Smith course and was told then that while stood in boots, not on skis, I should be able to flex the boots slightly.
When I pop the skis on I should be able to shrug my shoulders forward and let my body weight rest on the cuffs and progressively drop my knees forward without dropping thighs and my boots should flex forward without having to throw my body weight into them. At least I think that is how it went.
I can tell when i'm ontop of my skis with ankle flex as my knees are well over the front bindings when i just hang my weight on my front cuffs and it really shows when i'm sliding.
A little trick I learnt while on the course was to nip up the topmost and bottom most buckles reasonably tight, and then do the two middle buckles up so that they are almost undone. This is supposedly to make it easier for the pivot to rotate. Seems to work for me.

As for what ankle flex is meant to do - I think it is to allow you to keep yourself over the front of your skis and in control instead of riding the back seat.

Would be interested to hear what other people think ankle flex is useful for.
ski holidays     
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Bootfitters selling me boots that are so stiff that I cannot get the ankle flex I need

You don't believe in trying them on first? wink

rockyrobin, "Would be interested to hear what other people think ankle flex is useful for" - no idea myself, I like to be held rock solid
ski holidays     
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
David Murdoch, When I try them on they seem fine and the bootfitter seems so preoccupied with fit that flex doesn't appear to be a high priority Sad
My latest bootfitter hit the nail on the head IMO. He told me that its all good and well flexing the boots in the nice warm shop, but once you get onto the slope the boots will stiffen up due to the plastic getting harder due to the lower temperature.
So all this time i've been flexing my boots in the shop and then when sliding finding they're too stiff Sad
I've been skiing since I was a nipper in boots that were too stiff not allowing ankle flex and always wondered what was holding me back on the intermediate plateau.

I'm curious about you liking to be held rock solid - does this mean that you have to drop your thighs when leaning forward to get a lower more forward stance?
snow conditions     
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
rockyrobin, David Murdoch, It's this difference in approach that is making me nervous about buying my next pair of boots.
I've read conflicting recomendations from both professional skiers and instructors over flex.
Maybe it's just a case of buy the stiff boot and soften it until I'm happy.
latest report     
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
mesk1, Depends where you plan to aim for in your skiing ability?
We've been practicing an exercise of standing across a slope, standing on uphill ski with lower ski lifted with tip held over uphill ski. From this position you have to hop-turn round to face the other way in as few a hops as possible on just the one ski. This I tried with my stiff boots and ended up in the back seat at the end every time due to no ankle flex worth talking of.
Trying the same with soft flex boot is much easier and I can keep my weight forward using the ankle flex during hops and keep control of my stance and finish of turn much easier.
If I ever want to have a go at skiing a narrow couloire, I know which boots I will be wearing Wink

From what i've heard and experienced myself, I do feel the guys and ladies wearing stiff boots they cannot generate ankle flex in are putting themselves at a disadvantage they need not have.
After what I have experienced myself on the snow, if a bootfitter/instructor was advocating stiff boots I would be looking elsewhere with my custom.

If any of the guys/ladies on here have done a Warren Smith course i'm sure they will concur what i'm saying.
snow report     
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I do. I have problems too. I take it you're a willow rather than a Arnie? Because that seems to be my problem. (Not that I want to be an Arnie, you understand rolling eyes )
snow report     
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
rockyrobin wrote:

Would be interested to hear what other people think ankle flex is useful for.


I've recently come to think of ankle flex as allowing the hips to be forward whilst the body absorbs a mogul. Less ankle flex-hips further back.

However, I've had boots that were too soft to properly pressure some skis. So, I'm back full circle to my thoughts from 15 years ago, that boot flex should be matched to ski flex, stiff ski calling for stiff boot etc.

It's all too confusing. The virtual brandy bottle is by you, pass it on please?
ski holidays     
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
maggi, I feel your pain with boots. I hope you don't end up going through pairs of boots like I just have Sad I only weigh 140 lbs, so I would guess i'm a willow Laughing For a guy that makes it very difficult to find anything soft without looking at beginners or kids boots.
Have you looked at boots like the womens Salomon 1080? Similar, but slightly more relaxed fit than the very popular XWave's, with softer plastic all round for landing them jumps or getting some ankle flex Cool
ski holidays     
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
comprex, What you say makes sense matching boots to your skis.
My Metron M9's are very soft, and need to be if I am going to get them to work for me with light body weight.
I'm still puzzled though how people can ski to a high standard with stiff boots they cannot generate good ankle flex in. They must have "thunder thighs" with all that thigh pumping they must need to do with no ankle flex Laughing Be interesting to know if they also will admit to having a taste for the back seat now and again Wink

Cheers for the brandy m8, bit sharp though - you been shopping at Netto?

I'll pass the chalice to maggi to help drown her boot flex sorrows.
ski holidays     
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
rockyrobin, I don't disagree with any comments made so far. However even if softer is the way forward I still can't see any way to get the right flex apart from trial and error.
Also I'm wondering whether having the correct amount of forward lean is as / more important, as I wouldn't need to flex as much to stay balanced.

I Just re-read this http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=18916&page=1&pp=30&highlight=ankle+motionEpic thread it's rather long but raises some interesting points, not sure it reaches any conclusions though.
snow report     
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
mesk1, Please don't feel the need to agree with me to be polite. I appreciate any criticism as i'm often wrong and would love to hear other peoples thoughts and ideas.
Its a shame we have to go through this trial and error though as its cost me a small fortune so far Sad
Currently i'm alternating between two pairs of boots. One stiff, one soft. The softer so I am told has substantially improved my skiing ability.
Only with my soft boots I am told I look like i'm well ontop of my ski's and in control.

I'm curious about you mentioning whether forward lean is/as more important than flex - I'm wondering if having too much initial forward lean would restrict the ability to extend your ankle flex when trying to keep your skis in full contact with the snow while going down the backs of moguls. This is really important to me as I have a speed control problem and panic when things get too fast and cannot get enough of back seat driving i this situation. I really appreciate the full time contact with the snow to keep my speed down.

Thanks for the linky. Theres some good info and conjecture in that thread. Still none the wiser though Laughing If anything i'm still a bit confused about it all Puzzled
ski holidays     
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Interesting, I used to go for really stiff boots which tend to be uncomfortable and never fitted my calf muscles properly out of the box, this year I switched to a pretty stiff ski (Head GS Race setup) but with Rossignol Soft 1 Ski boots, ok these boots are not really soft flexing compared to some boots but they are much more flexible than the Salomon Xscream boots I was using, I had the boots set up with a 5mm heel lift under the footbed to give me plenty of foward lean but other than that and a custom (cheapish) footbed they were out of the box, result my skiing significantly improved, the greater flex of the boot allowed me to feel exactly what the ski was doing as it did it and respond accordingly, the soft structure of the boot ensured that it was tightly wrapped arround the whole of my foot without applying pressure at certain points only which made it much more comfortable.

Note however that I have very strong leg muscles (can leg press 260kg on one leg) I have always been able to make even the stiffest boot flex easily, so this year instead of depending on the boot for support I depended on my strength for support and concentrated on fine control instead.

Flexible boots are not a new idea, go back 30 years and most boots were made of leather and were only slightly stiffer than walking boots, plastic boots came in with modern safety bindings and required people to change their skiing technique, my mother who never gave up her leather boots skiied far more with her ankles than my father who switched to plastic boots, both were good skiers just that they had different styles
ski holidays     
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rockyrobin, rock solid just means i have to putting considerable force into getting them to flex. I find it gives me (a lot) more precision. I also like a very snug fit. Oddly enough, D G Orf, the opposite of what you experienced. Maybe I need to re-examine -always open to ways to improve! But I Know I prefer my old stiffer tecnicas to my new softer ones.

I don't think boot stiffness necessarily throws one backwards, but can see how it might contribute. Interestingly, many years ago I asked an ex-GB downhiller mate whether I should crank my forward lean forward to help me lean forward. His advice was that one should be able to get oneself forward and that if sitting back was an issue, increasing forward lean would simply mean you still sat back with your calfs at a more acute angle. Which makes sense. In general I believe boots are more upright now than, say, 10 years ago.

One practical suggestion - if you can get hold (eBay??) of a pair of Salomon SX92s they had 5 stiffness adjustments and 3 (I think) lean settings. I'm not owning up to ever owning a pair (we've all done things we've been embarassed about) but they may let you play around with flex and angle and work out what you like. You will of course then need to have them in the next shop so you can compare as I can't think of any way to measure the stiffness (obviously the lean angle is trivial).
ski holidays     
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
In fact, here's a link to SX91s. http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=16061&item=7161214142&rd=1

The lean angle is slightly trickier as you unscrew the front cuff and literally rotate for and aft. I think the angles were 17, 19 and 21 degrees. Stiffness much easier with two wedges above the forefoot. You simply made them get more in the way of the front cuff to stiffen. I found 3rd or 4th stiffest best with the stiffest effectively locking the boot being a little extreme. THinking about it, the total lack of progression in flex might have had as much to do with it...
ski holidays     
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
David Murdoch, in the end I suspect there is no perfect general answer, certainly if I wanted to race I'd like as not put on the stiffer X-Scream boots but for day to day skiing I find the softer Rossignols much more enjoyable and I think that as much as anything else gives me more control, I've had custom foamed race boots in the past and I could get far maore flex out of them than should be possible so I learned to adapt my technique accordingly thus a soft boot or stiff boot only alter how much force I put into the ski slightly wheras there should thooretically be a marked difference
latest report     
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
David Murdoch, the pics have a logo SX92 ? I still have SX94s and am quite happy with them. The flex adjustment is so simple - the little blue button you can see in the eBay photo slides into 5 positions. I still remember the bootfitter demonstrating that at one end of flex settings he could safely put a finger in that slot across the boot - and at the other it would be crushed. Nothing wrong with a comfy adjustable back entry boot - IMO.
snow report     
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
More interesting comments, I'm not sure how leg strength directly affects the boots flexing. The only muscle group which I can see which would appear to allow me to directly flex the boot is the Anterior Tibialis and I don't think mine are anywhere near strong enough to overcome even a soft boot.
Although I can see that strong legs may help resist forces that would cause me to collapse onto the front of the boot.
snow report     
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
mesk1, that's if the boot is in free space. Don't forget the boot has most of your weight on or in it, pressing it to the ground.

Perhaps it is better to think of it as a spring-loaded (by the boot flex) shift of your weight distribution.

kuwait_ian, Very Happy The SX series is in a class by itself. Remember those square-toed Nordica abominations? <shudder>
snow report     
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
kuwait_ian, my apologies for any offence, I know lots of people like the rear entry idea. I just get a closer fit from a well adjusted front entry. Entertainingly, I understand Dominique Perret's company Thema engineering is planning (?)/producing (?) a hybrid mid entry boot for high performance. Check out www.skier.ch if you're interested.
snow conditions     
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
D G Orf, I see what you mean. I guess I just prefer a harder boot. Please be aware I cannot press 260kgs!!! I can see how you might overpower pretty much anything.
ski holidays     
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
comprex, Am I right interpreting your comments as the flex is balancing out my weight and the forces acting upon me allowing smaller muscle groups to fine tune my positioning ........... or am I way off target still Puzzled
ski holidays     



Terms and conditions  Privacy Policy