 Poster: A snowHead
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I was told by a shop that there is no such thing as a genuine less than size 23.5 in an adult boot, except possibly Lange. The guy said the smaller sizes have some sort of false thing in the toe that makes them feel smaller lengthways but they are actually exactly the same shell as the 23.5. Is that right, or am i being told a porky?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Porky, they all pretty much exist in 22. Although they are dropping slowly out of production. It is however true in some models, generalisations are full of falsehood in these parts me lady.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have two pairs of boots in a genuine size 22 - Head Dream and also Salomon Idol 8 - so they do definitely exist! I've also hired proper size 22 Salomons (various models) in resort as well.
I have also tried some other makes on in the past (Rossignnol, and also a different Salomon model) that are in fact a 23 with a plastic bung in the toe box and there is quite a difference between the two (naughty ski boot companies)!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| curry-queen wrote: |
I have two pairs of boots in a genuine size 22 - Head Dream and also Salomon Idol 8 - so they do definitely exist! I've also hired proper size 22 Salomons (various models) in resort as well.
I have also tried some other makes on in the past (Rossignnol, and also a different Salomon model) that are in fact a 23 with a plastic bung in the toe box and there is quite a difference between the two (naughty ski boot companies)! |
yeah, naughty - hadnt occurred to me there might be cheats like that. It must change the feel of the boot cos your weight will be further back in the boot relative to the mounting that its designed for.
Can you just feel it if you put your hand in the shell or can you not necessary tell if its a true size or not? I dont suppose they own up to it on the boot blurb. Now im wondering if the guy knows what he is talking about which is a bit worrying as he is sorting out boots i took back afetr one of his colleagues fitted me with boots that are too big which now packed down feel like wellies - I ll be watching them (listening with suspicion) when they are fiddling with my boots then - what a shame you can trust some of the people that are supposed to be giving you advice - thank goodness for  yeehaa!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It's really easy to tell the difference - simply line the boot up alongside a size 23 of the same boot (or place them sole to sole) and they will be exactly the same!!!! A true 22 will be about a centimetre shorter.
If you take the inner boot out and stuff your hand into the toe box, you can feel whether there is a plastic block or not. And, yes, they do feel totally different because if it is a 22 with a toe block, then the width will be the same as a 23 and you'll feel that it's too wide.
It's funny though, because Salomon seem to differ in their different models because my Idols are a true 22 but last year I tried on some new Salomons (but a different model) and they had the toe block. I reckon they are doing it to save money because in the UK they probably don't sell too many 22s. I bet the resort shops carry more of them due to demand.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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and until this season tecnica made a 90 flex race boot (for ladies and juniors) in a true size 21.5
curry-queen, not sure about resort shops having more demand for small sizes, we sell loads of 22s basically because most stuff is over sized and very few places carry them
salomon offer the idol and the instinct lange have the RX and RS models and some others head only make dream in a true 22 rossi offer similar to lange, atomic make them in the live fit and the medusa and hawx ranges but not M tech or B tech
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OK heres another curious thing the boot guy couldnt explain, or at least sounded like waffle, but who am i to judge. I have Garmont She-Ride for touring also ina 23.5 (same size as my Rossi SM8s ) and i can fit about another half finger width (may 5mm) more behind my heel in the shell. So can i safely assume that the Garmont 23.5 is a 23.5 shell and the Rossi 23.5 is actually a 24 shell with thicker (though not now it is packed down) liner cos the inside of the shell is definitely different lengths. If thats the case then they are fiddling with a shell that is just plain too big - does that sound right, or have i got my self in a techie-mess over all this and i should just let them get on with the fiddling?
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a true 23.5 would be internally 25cm, allowing 23.5cm for the foot and 15mm shell check, boot makers make them all a bit longer as they know that a 15mm shell check although great in terms of fit and performance (and comfort when it is fitted) feels too small at first
every boot maker adds a bit some more than others which is the very reason we shell check every boot on the foot, if all 23.5 boots were the same then it wouldn't be an issue
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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it also is the reason that if your foot measures 23.5 there is a good chance in some boots that a 22.5 will fit you better...... but that is why we shell check!!!
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CEM, Just out of idle interest how do you check the shell? I'm sure if I was to put my foot in the shell, and allowing for the fact that the heel must flow outwards too that there would hardly be enough space to clearly see the gap if you peered into the back of it behind the heel. Is this what you try to do? Also, have you ever used calipers to conduct a survey of internal boot lengths vs. what they claim to be?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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liners out, foot in empty shell, toes brushing front and flex forward....use a torch to see down the back of the boot (some shells are light colour or clear and easy to see in, dark ones are harder to check) 10-20mm is the ideal, 5mm is doable if the foot fits the profile of the foot very well and you want loads of work and 25mm is kind of acceptable if you already have the boot and only ski a week or so a year...... if you have 25mm and drop down a size you get 15mm which should be just lovely with a footbed and some fitting work
yes we often measure the internal size of boots to compare them, tend to just use a steel tape as getting any form of caliper in the shell and out again whilst keeping he reading is very difficult
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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CEM,  just on the sound of it 5mm minus liner sounds fairly tight, I would have thought most liners were way thicker than 5mm front and back thickness until they had packed quite considerably. However, I guess if you have someone that wants the perfomance fit, (that lots here go on about) that is when you start an interesting job.
Interesting, thanks
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Megamum, 5mm is extreme, it is a true race fit (tighter than most race fits) and requires lots of stretching and grinding of the shell it is as i said possible (not ideal for most but possible), the vast majority whinge about 15-20mm at first but fitting a boot properly involves a bity of work, instant nirvana is only available to a lucky few
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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bitoffluff, great a shop who...
A) doesn't know what boots are out there
and
B) doesn't have any boot fitting foam in their workshop
good luck
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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bitoffluff, Oh now I am just guessing!
Please let us know when they have done all that they can..... I h ave a spare pillow if you like 
If they had a decent boot guarantee they would be exchanging those bad boys for a new pair of 22's!
That's the first thing I would do if myself or any staff made an error like that, I know most of the decent boot fitters would do the same!
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