 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi All
My wife and I are travelling to the US late November on a Ski road trip before flying on to NZ and OZ to visit family. We don't usually live this millionaire lifestyle, I've managed to secure extended leave from work and thought what the hell!
We are travelling from SF to Tahoe to ski Heavenly, Kirkwood, Squaw etc.. then onto Utah, staying at The Canyons.. then onto Keystone, Colorado... then a mammoth drive to LA for our onward flight.
I have trawled the net looking for definitive answers on snow chain use and found conflicting views. What are peoples experiences of driving in these regions? I'm trying to book an 4 x 4 or at very least a front wheel drive car. I've driven regularly in the Alps with and without chains but the idea of a rear wheel drive automatic in a thick blizzard sounds exciting for all the wrong reasons.
Also, has anybody used luggage forward (luggageforward.com) I thinking of sending my skis back to the UK from LA with these.
many thanks in advance, Boyd
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I hired a 4x4 jeep in upstate New York, drove it all over the place through that state, Vermont, Maine, Mass, Conneticut. In Vermont we stayed in killington, it was - 35c, snowed everyday and never did i once have to put chains on (because i didnt have any). The jeep had snow/mud tyres on it and it was ideal. Just spend a little extra and get the 4x4. You will be fine.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hi,
We have done SF to Tahoe, awsome is all I can say. Best to hire a 4x4 or SUV last time had a Highlander with a nice button marked snow, once you hit it the car did the rest in fresh powder - no need for snow chains. Only problem you may have if snow is falling having to go round the lake clockwise from 8 to 6 meaning a extra 2-3 hours rather on your journey than the nice 2- 3 normal drive from SF to Tahoe and anti clockwise from 8 - 6 throught the mountains. While at Tahoe they keep the road clear automatically and very quickly. Have a great trip and check out skieavenly.com. We purchase our lift passes prior to going out and got 7 days with 6 days free and got refunded for the days we did not ski, (ski america I think!), Car hire was via Car3000.com which proved cheaper than going directly with avis etc. If intertested big point is to book up Alcatraz if you want to go, the better half did and if we had not got tickets before we would have never been able as extremely busy  .
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Boyd wrote: |
I have trawled the net looking for definitive answers on snow chain use and found conflicting views. What are peoples experiences of driving in these regions? I'm trying to book an 4 x 4 or at very least a front wheel drive car. I've driven regularly in the Alps with and without chains but the idea of a rear wheel drive automatic in a thick blizzard sounds exciting for all the wrong reasons.
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To get a better sense of what's really neccessary vs just preferable, get over to epicski.com and ask there. It's basically the USA version of snowhead. There're a lot more people there who actually live there as oppose to the once a year (or once a decade) traveler. It might help you to sort out the "conflicting" views.
(I'm one such once a year visitor, hence not qualify to offer useful advice, it would only confuse you more)
If money is not a problem, I'm pretty sure a 4x4 will mean less hassle. But unless you can score a deal, an SUV will cost you more to hire than a simple mid-size car. And it will burn more gas too.
If you do go the non-4x4 route, it'll be cheaper to buy the chain instead of hiring them for the duration.
You shouldn't have to worry about rear wheel drive cars. I haven't seen too many of them for hire at all. Anything below "full size" class would usually be front wheel drive.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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abc, i wouldnt worry about the fuel costs. When i was in Florida for 2 weeks this summer, we had 2 big 4x4 vehicles, to fill them BOTH up it cost $80-90 and that was with hardly and fuel in them. I wouldnt let the cost of fuel in america decide which car to take out as fuel is just so cheap over there compared to over here in the UK. Go for the 4x4 and have that piece of mind, have a good trip!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Boyd wrote: |
| then onto Keystone, Colorado... then a mammoth drive to LA for our onward flight. |
I driven LA to Aspen quite a few times.
The first time I did it it in one hit but the other trips I have always taken an overnight somewhere.
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My guess is that each State will have its own rules, which is not especially helpful if you are travelling inter state.
The California rules are these, from the Caltrans website
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/trucks/ops-guide/chains.html#4wheel
When we were there we has a 4wd and were waved through the chain control area with no issue, Nobody asked to see any chains. The letter of the law seems to be that you should have them but the day to day experience suggests otherwise (see above) . You could be the unlucky one. That said, there were always guys there selling/fitting chains so if you need them and dont have them, you might be able to buy them.............most likely cheaper at Wal Mart though
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I've driven in colorado with a 4x4 to Winter Park from Denver airport and didn't have snow chains.
I don't think you were allowed to put snow chains on rental vehicles if I remember correctly? I did wonder because there were lots of signs along the I70 stating around chain enforcement etc. Luckily I didn't see the sign telling us we had to put them on, I'm not sure what we would have done if this happened! 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Avis won't rent you a car with snow chains. At least, that's what they've told me a few times.
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This March when we drove around the Colorado resorts I came to the conclusion that the Americans do not believe in snow chains. They don't believe in snow tyres either and most relied on just the 4x4 some times with really bald tyres too.
My advice is to choose a 4x4, which is commonly available, with a set of good tyres. There can be quite a bit of snow on the road.
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You know it makes sense.
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Obviously will depend whether your staying around the North or South Shore areas, but if heading for South Lake Tahoe and driving from San Francisco go by Highway 50 or even Highway 88 via the Carson Spur/ Kirkwood / Carson Pass, but avoid the interstate.
Alternatively for Tahoe, you could do that stint of your holiday without a car. If you base yourself in South Lake Tahoe, you have Heavenly right on your door step with free shuttle buses to the various base lodges, though California Lodge or the Heavenly Village (for the Gondola) would be the ones that makes sense from within South Lake.
When you want to broaden your horizons beyond Heavenly, there is a Daily shuttle to Kirkwood that picks up at the major lodging locations in South Lake, (last season bus + day ticket was $65 which is less than the rack rate you pay at the ticket window). There is regular shuttles to Sierra at Tahoe (free, or used to be), plus daily shuttles to Squaw Valley (free). The Squaw Shuttle is fantastic for taking in the scenery of the Lake.
You can get to South Lake Tahoe with Amtrak. I'm heading to this part of the world in March and travel plan is flying into SFO with Virgin, arriving about 2.30pm local time. Simply going to stay in the Travelodge at Millbrae just south of the airport, accessible via the hotel shuttles (or probably quicker the BART system, the Millbrae Travelodge is just across the street from the station) and chill out to rest after the journey, setting off at 5.30am from Aberdeen GMT!
Catch the first BART train out of Millbrae in the morning and head to Richmond to join the Amtrak Capitol Corridor to Sacramento, from where a dedicated coach link takes you into the heart of South Lake Tahoe at the Stateline transit centre. (Single currently costs $44).
Continuing your trip beyond Tahoe, if you were so minded you could catch the South Tahoe Express to Reno (buses operate hourly almost 24/7) and then pick up Amtraks Californian Zepher train to Salt Lake City.
Some food for thought perhaps.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Hi All, Thanks for all the great advice and comments. I took a tip from abc and posted on Epicski and had plenty of response from locals. The general consensus is, hire a 4x4 so this is the action I have taken. It did uncover a further problem in that I've planned my trip way too early, I'm due to arrive in the US on 1st December and leave on the 19th. These dates were dictated by my work in reality but I'm lead to believe that failing a good start to the season we may be struggling for good/any coverage. Anyway a really helpful chap from Epicski gave me a link to a site he compiles yearly showing show fall data for may US areas. If anyone is interested it can be found at http://webpages.charter.net/tcrocker818/snowrpts.htm
Does anyone know similar sites or have any first hand experience of skiing South Tahoe, Utah or Colorado first couple of weeks of December?
Many thanks, Boyd
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Poster: A snowHead
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My trip to Colorado was mid december, it was in 2008 and the snow cover was fine. I guess if you have the luxury of the car you will be able to seek out the snow.
Arapahoe/Loveland are usually the first to open, I believe they opened in early November in 2009?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Heavenly hast the biggest snow making system on the West Coast and obviously the ski areas are gunning (quite literally) to open for Thanksgiving. It would require prolonged unseasonable warmth or severe and persistent inversions to prevent there being any skiing.
I hope the weather gods are with you, but if their not fully cooperative, it's well worth spending time in San Francisco.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I remember hearing that in the USA, when snowchains are needed, there will typically be some nice lads ready to put them on for you, for a reasonable fee. Is that the case? I often think of those lads, as I grope around in French snowstorms with freezing hands.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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pam w, on I-80 Truckee/Tahoe it's currently $30 to put chains on, $20 to take them off - very reasonable in my opinion, although I've never had to put my chains on!
Boyd, Squaw officially opened the weekend before Thanksgiving last season )Nov 18th), but there was no decent skiing until about 10 days later - the aim is to have at least the Mountain Run open by the first weekend in December. IIRC last season we were pretty much fully open by that time. Our estimated opening day for 2010 is November 20th. In the Tahoe area Heavenly is usually open first, and then Squaw tries to beat Northstar.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Scrap that, Loveland was open in october last year!!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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skinanny, Hmm for $30 I think I'd it myself. 
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| pam w wrote: |
| skinanny, Hmm for $30 I think I'd it myself. |
Trouble is, chains are usually only required when it's actually snowing!
And if that happens to be after dark, the $30 starts to sound rather appealing... (granted, some chains are easier to put on than others)
[EDIT]
On the other hand, the $20 to take it off (a 30 second affair) is a bit dear.
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pam w, in 7 years I have yet to need to put chains on! Hmmmm, do I need new snow tyres this season?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I only put them on once last season, on a morning when the snow ploughs had just cleared one lane down the middle of the road - and I was on it until the next plough forced me to move over onto "my" side of the road, into very deep and chopped up (by the previous pass) snow. I got out of that - very good snow tyres - but it was all a bit hairy as I was on a reasonable gradient and I put the chains on at the next opportunity, as it was definitely not a morning to be cluttering up the road. My fear of being the idiot stuck in the way is greater than my dislike of getting to grips with the chains. Most of the vehicles moving around were chained, including one locally registered Land Rovers so I've have had no excuse if I'd got stuck.
Last season I had two new snow tyres which performed very well - I'd used chains more frequently in previous years. if in doubt I tend to put them on - probably unnecessarily sometimes.
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pam w, I've got stuck twice - both times my fault, high sided on a berm getting out of a driveway, if I had shovelled I wouldn't have had a problem. This year will be interesting - new house, new location, I don't even know if our road is plowed!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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My view 4x4 is nice but be aware some car rental firms have Mockney SUVs which look like the real deal but are resolutely 2wd. Quality of tyres is also key - many "mixed" tyres will render a 4x4 as useless as a 2wd in heavy snow and of all the cars I've ever seen upside down in ditches the vast majority have been 4x4s. I've had pretty good succes with regular fwd cars with cable chains - simple buy then at Walmart or Kragen Auto Parts (everywhere) with some rubber tensioners. For Tahoe itself its rare to need chains in town but they can be mandatory to get from the lake to Sierra. Kwood or Northstar.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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skinanny, thanks again for the local insight, I was beginning to get really worried that there would be little to no snow at all. Been watching web cams and weather reports and Heavenlys had around 4 inches already although most of its been blown/rained off now but encouraging though. fatbob, thanks for the warning on 2WD, 4x4 look-a-likes. I'll ensure I get a proper 4/all wheel drive with S/M rated tires. many thanks Boyd
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FAQ
Heading to Utah ourselves this season. 
