 Poster: A snowHead
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Following on from my earlier thread I’ve accepted that on a simple cost/benefit analysis, the benefit of having avalanche equipment and training (potentially saving mine/my friends lives) just about outweighs the cost (a few hundred quid!).
I therefore now need to a) buy the gear and b) learn how to use the gear (and indeed learn more about avalanche avoidance/prevention).
I know I need at a minimum to get a transceiver, shovel (probably metal) and a probe. I’m probably going to give the airbag/avalung a miss to start with unless I get very strong advice to the contrary?
However, I now need some further advice please:
1) Which brand/model transceiver should I consider and/or avoid purchasing (I don’t suppose I need advice about the shovel/probe).
2) Can anyone recommend a knowledgeable supplier who has a wide selection and offers good value for money?
As always, many thanks.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Transceivers are very much a matter of personal taste. Different people find different models easier to use.
However it is often very difficult to try out a selection, and if you are new to them you don't know what to look for anyway.
Personaly I am a big fan of the DTS Tracker for the less experienced.
Google for best prices.
Mariethoz in Nendaz gives good discounts to seasonaires, but the margin on transceivers is tight so he doesn't have much to play with.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The shovel should be metal, not just probably. Take a look at the BCA Tracker transcievers, nice and easy to use (which is important). If possible go to a shop with a few different models you can play with to see what works for you. Many places also offer packages with transciever probe pack etc thrown in. You don't need an ABS/Avalung, although as you will need a pack anyway you will probably find that the cost of an Avalung pack is not much more than a normal one...
I got my stuff form Lockwoods 'cos it's just round the corner form me in Leamington, I don't really know any other UK shops so can't recommend them, although others should be able to help there.
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Don't buy an ortovox Focus F1. Excellent transceiver and many pros still use them but surpassed by modern digital beacons for casual use. Best place to find a number in one location is ski show or one of the avalanche talks (though these may be sponsored and therefore biased toward partcular makes).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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1556garyt, have a look at Facewest, not only do they run a discount for buying all 3 (transceiver, shovel, probe) but you earn 10% of what you earn in 'points'. I made the purchase last season based on what I had tried before and ended up getting a package from sport-conrad.de . I picked up the Ortovox S1, metal shovel and a 240cm probe.
I think you are best finding out what transceiver you want/need and basing your search for retailers around that.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Snow Shepherd have a good range of kit and will be able to offer advice on what you could buy (they also have a 15% discount on all items at the moment). I use a Mamut Pulse transceiver, not cheap but I think it's easy to use and very effective. Get a shovel with a metal blade.
There have been threads which give useful websites and publications looking at snowpack stability and how to avoid using all this expensive kit in the first place. Have a search and see what comes up on that front. Certainly a good starting point before you commit to week-long training courses on off-piste safety.
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There's often avi gear on ebay.
Or keep watching the Buy & Sell forum on here.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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1556garyt, we are running a transceiver practice session and there will be some various models there, perhaps a try before you buy might be in order
have a look at insideoutskiing.com under the club page for more info.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Snow Shepherd have a good range of kit and will be able to offer advice on what you could buy (they also have a 15% discount on all items at the moment). |
I'll second that - well recommended.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
we are running a transceiver practice session and there will be some various models there, perhaps a try before you buy might be in order
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I'd do that, the most important thing about the transceiver is that you know how to use it, while you can learn how a new one works I'd always suggest getting one you are familiar with if possible.
Shovel definitely metal, also learn how to dig. It might sound odd but there's a right way and a wrong way.
Probe have a play with some and get one you can put together quickly, some can be a bit fiddly which isn't ideal in a stressful situation when time is very important.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Personally, I'd swap my Ortovox S1 with anything anyone else had in the group... and have done. Funny thing is though, as you start to understand how these things work, the more basic ones e.g tracker, do start to make more sense. But... in the big scheme of things (avvy park...) S1 is miles above anything else I've used.
There are plenty of threads here on this subject.
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You know it makes sense.
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1556garyt, I agree with rob, the new Pulse is very good but takes a bit of getting use to. The Tracker, new version is also very good, but maybe not quite as quick. I raced a pisteur friend and he beat me with his Pulse and I always thought I was quite fast with my Tracker. But they both do a very good job. Others will recommend different makes so you need to have a play with them. As someone said, go to the ski show, there are sure to be plenty to try there and good prices. Metal headed shovel is a must as plastic ones break. If you can afford it an Arvi bag is also very good. Could stop you being buried.
Anyone reading this, have you tried the new arvi bag from the states made by BCA. Have they solved the air transport problem yet?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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allanm, not sure what you are saying about the S1? I haven't used one, only held it, seems to be the beacon I would most recommend, although the new 3+ from Ortovox also looks really good.
I was never that enamored with the original Tracker but I got a smoking deal on one for the SO last year. After playing with that and my Barryvox Mammut, no question the Tracker was faster.
Where possible you should future proof your beacon for as long as possible so go for a Tracker 2, S1, 3+ or maybe a Pulse.
As Clarky said, don't rule out an Avalung. All this gear has to go in a pack and they're not cheap for a comfortable one. Something you may also consider depending on where / how you ski but Ortovox make a pack that has a built in spine protector.
I love my ABS. I was going to try and get the SO a BCA Float last year but they didn't release them until after we started skiing. Airbags are expensive. Are they worth it? Only you (or your back manager / CFO (wife?) ) can answer that...
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Poster: A snowHead
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I also love my ABS. Given that you are carrying a rucksack at all times, it might as well have as much functionality as you can reasonably afford. I paid £700 or thereabouts for it. It is a lot of money, however, as far as I am concerned my life is worth rather more than that. It is also quite a well constructed bag, although the vertical ski carry is not a patch on the carry on my Marmot La Meije (Coombs knew what he was doing).
Beacon choice needs to be solved by demoing, preferably observed by a guide or other expert and being honest about how much you are actually going to practice with the thing. I'm also a metal shovel fascist. Plastic = for making snowmen.
We seem to get a lot of these questions. Is there any point in someone collecting the wisdom (ignorance?) of the board into a single thread with links in it and then stickying it?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have hired an ABS bag and was even considering paying out for one, but then someone mentioned about not being allowed them on planes because of the copmpressed gas, is that correct?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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As regards Avalanche Bags, in my opinion ...
I have been reluctant because they are expensive & heavy. Also I am less convinced of their effectiveness in the more prevalent denser slab avalanches in Europe. They make sense for the more common powder avalanches in North America.
However, more & more of the mountain guides I ski with use them, although they tend to pick the day. Hence I am getting more convinced.
The Snowpulse is a better design as it protects the head better and creates an air space in front of the face. However the pack system is uncomfortable and I wouldn't want to use it touring.
The versatility of the ABS system, being able to attach different sized packs depending on the days activity, is a real winner for me. It is also a much more comfortable pack.
I tend to use 3 packs, 12L for standard off-piste, around 25L for day tours, bigger for longer tours or glaciated / mountaineering.
Only having to buy one air bag system would be a major plus.
Budget permitting, I will probably go for the ABS this season.
Purely rumour, but I believe the modern packs have a dis-arming / safety feature. You can certainly use them in helicopters now. I don't know what the rules are on pressurised gas on a plane. I am sure someone will clarify ...
I would be interested in other peoples opinions / experiences before I spend that kind of money.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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IncogSkiSno, yes and no. The IATA permit them to be carried but some airlines can get a little 'squirrelly' about letting them on board their planes.
Personally, I have traveled a little with my ABS now - UK > Canada and 3 times in Canada, with no trouble at all. There are quite a few threads about it. The ABS is the only one that uses an explosive charge to detonate the air canister - they are not so easy to refill. Depending on where you are flying to it is probably easiest to leave the gas canister and explosive handle at home and hire them in resort - this is easy on places like Verbier.
The Snowpulse and the Float have a different firing mechanism, and claim they are easier to travel with as you can discharge the cylinder and (in theory) easily refill them from Scuba or Paintball gear if you can't find a 'snow orientated' filler!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've done a fair bit of cross comparison of transceivers over the last couple of seasons.
What stood out was it was more a matter of personal preference. Transceivers I couldn't find an aircraft carrier with were other peoples favourite.
(and an old analog F1 in a skilled pair of hands (and ears) is still the best)
But there was a general trend ...
The Tracker 2 is lightening fast & very easy for beginners, even if they wave it about. Great for singles, struggles with multiples.
The Pulse (especially with latest software) is brilliant for the more experienced. Handles multiples particularly well. But it isn't simple to use. Group check a god-send for pro's.
There may be better alternatives, but they work for me.
I use a Pulse
If I buy any more client packs, I'll buy Tracker 2's
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Alan McGregor, it's very easy to 'make the packs safe' for use for instance in a helicopter. One thing I am very interested in is the 'remote trigger' unit that you can now get for the ABS, that way others in the group can activate the pack for you if a slope rips out - that would be great when heavy sluffing is going on and you're not quite sure if you need to make the choice to pull the handle too!
Like you I have two packs I use my 20(ish)L ABS for everything and a 45L pack for touring. I'm going to be adding a bigger ABS to my Vario this year so that I can make longer tours with the ABS, something I felt I didn't need in Europe but do in N America.
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Hmm, the potential for abuse of remote controlled packs is enormous !
(although the comedy value could be great)
I will assume there is some way of disabling the receivers .....
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parlor, Alan McGregor, The guy at BCA seems to have been quite positive about the new Float sack in there reports from last season. I have tried (carried) both the ABS and Snowpulse now and so shall send BCA an email to see what progress they have had for selling them in Europe this coming season. They do seem a lot cheaper and just as good. Pisteurs in Les Arcs, La Plagne, Tignes all get issued with ABS now and most seem very pleased to be wearing one, but as we all know in Les Arcs, they do not always work as saddly was the case last season for a guide and his two clients RIP.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Alan McGregor, I just had a look around the ABS website but I can't find the information on the remote trigger at the moment. If you google "remote trigger abs avalanche backpack" you can see a number of sites that talk about the remotes. I believe you can retrofit them to older packs.
snowcrazy, see my post in the other thread. I also posted a thread last year about it and my hopes for it...
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FAQ
