 Poster: A snowHead
|
Hi everybody! I've been lurking around for a while, but this is my first actual post.
I'm taking the family to Fiss, Austria in March and the cheapest flights are to Munich, so I was wondering if anybody could offer me some good advice for that. I realise, that I need to pay extra for snow tires, which is a scandal, but will I need snow chains? Anything else I need to know?
I'm not looking for the cheapest solution, but rather the easiest, but any cost-saving tips are welcome, of course! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Welcome to  SkiingDad,
We flew in and out of Munich for 3 trips last season, and had varying experiences.
For your situ, whether you will need snowchains will depend very much on the weather at the time (which I am sure you know. There is a certain amount of climbing/mountain type road to get to Fiss I think, so if it is snowing on arrival day then you may well need them. Winter tyres definitely yes though, and contrary to popular opinion, not all rental cars out of Munich have them automatically, so it's unfortunately not one of those things you can avoid paying for but get anyway.
On Holiday Autos, the cheapest quotes (usually quite a bit cheaper than competitors) are usually for rental with Thrifty. We've used them a few times and had varying experiences. First time, they had just moved offices and so it was all a bit chaotic but vehicle was provided quickly and efficiently. Second time, 1 hours queue, then the vehicle we were supposed to have had apparently been in an accident the day before so they could only offer us a smaller one, which was an issue as we were supposed to be a group of 10 and had booked a 9 seater and an estate car (for luggage) and they fobbed us off with a 7 seater and the estate. As it happens we were fine as two of our group had had to re-arrange their travel and were arriving the following day and making their own way to resort, and several people were leaving a day or two early as well, but what they would have done if we had been the original 10 I don't know. Third time was fine.
Not sure how another company would have handled the problem we had on the second trip to be honest. We had enquired at all the other car hire desks and there were no spare vehicles in the airport that day, so was a difficult situation for any company to handle. I guess a bigger company might have been able to move vehicles around more from e.g. another city etc. We did get a partial refund though.
I'm telling you this because the prices are a lot cheaper, but it does seem to be a bit of a lottery as to the service you get. We on the whole will still use them as we're usually trying to screw the price down, but it might not be for you if that's not a priority for you.
There are as usual all the expected car hire offices in Munich - Avis, Budget, Europcar, Hertz etc. Thrifty are now based in the airport, not off-site as previously.
D
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
SkiingDad, I used Hertz this year from Munich to get to Kappl (next valley to Fiss). Ordered an estate (Mondeo, A4 etc per advertised) and got a Kia Ce'ed -basically an Astra for 5 of us with all our own kit  . After much complaining we got a Zafira (which worked out fine) but we had huge traffic jams getting into Austria and journey took 5 hours. We flew back from Memmingem which was a much better journey.
I've driven to Austrai in summer and encountered the same jams getting into Austria - so be careful in yoru timings, as I think it's fine outwith peak Saturdays. I would highly recommend considering Innsbruck though as you'll only be an hour or so, and you can get private transfers if necessary. OK it will cost more, but based on my experience worth every penny to avoid the stress.
I'm sure some of the German and Austrian based snowheads will come along to give you more accurate advice than me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
So based on boabski's experience, going with one of the bigger providers doesn't necessarily exempt you from being slightly messed around re booked versus actual vehicle.
Hadn't thought to comment on the traffic situ. We've always been driving east ish towards Salzburg etc. so can't really comment on the route you're taking. However, if it's a snowy day and the motorway is bad, I would advise bein ready to take whatever action/diversion you can to get into Austria as soon as possible, (i.e. have lots of good maps plus sat nav etc.) as the roads have always been in my experience much more efficiently cleared of snow etc. We have on a few occasions been literally crawling at 10mph through 6 inches of snow on the German bits of the motorway, and then with the same weather in Austria, and in some cases even on what appears to be the same stretch of motorway, just over the border, following whole armies of snowploughs just going up and down continually keeping the roads clear, or as clear as possible, even during heavy snowfalls. This might have been just our experience, but it's happened like that on 2 or 3 occasions, and will affect how I plan my journeys from now on.
Agree with boabski that Innsbruck is by far the better option but the premium to get there from some UK airports is very high, usually around £300 per person from Manchester (including a change, making the day longer), versus £50 on a special deal from Lufthansa, so it's hard to justify, even though it is much easier - that's a whole extra trip for us! If you live near a suitable airport Innsbruck is great though.
D
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
I imagine that hire cars in Munich don't come with an Austrian Vignette either so you'd have to factor that in as well. They're not expensive though at €7.90 for 10 days or €22.90 for 2 month.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vignette_%28road_tax%29
My experience of driving round Munich on a Saturday lunchtime about 3 weeks ago left me with the impression that the world and his dog were out shopping. On the radio, the travel news consistently mentioned multi-kilometre queues all over the place.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks for all the tips!
I'd much rather fly directly to Innsbruck, but that effectively more than doubles the price, so it's not really an option for me. Especially, since the return flight is damn early, which means we need to get up extremely early. I'm not in the UK, I'm in Finland, so my only option is to fly from Helsinki. This, in turn, means that my potential destinations are very few. Forget about Memmingen and Friedrichshafen, since the multiple-stop flights will become ridiculously long. My only options, therefore, are Munich, Zurich and Innsbruck, from cheapest to most expensive. Zurich may actually be a viable option, with a later departure and therefore less stress in case the snow is really pouring or something.
Any info on the typical traffic on Saturday mornings?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
SkiingDad, Zurich may be a better option getting the train from the airport - think you would get off at Lendeck for Fiss???? The St Anton website has good links for the Zurich train options and will be on same line for Landeck/Innsbruck
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
boabski, Landeck is indeed the closest station, but I'm not very keen on rushing the family from the airport to the train station. I think car hire still seems to be the easy option.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
I've not done Zurich before but have heard loads of people say it's a doddle, as the station is underneath the airport. Could you fly to Verona? Dead easy road to Innsbruck from there and probably same timewise as Munich but POSSIBLY less traffic
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
SkiingDad, Depending on when you are travelling really decides which route you take. There are several options from Munich Airport and you do not have to travel with the "cattle cars" via the A8. Most route planners will send you down this route as it is theoretically the fastest - believe me, it isn't! I live in the corner by the A8/A93 junction and have to travel this route every day to work and back again. I never use it at the weekends in the ski season unless I am leaving very early or very late!
The weekend of March 5/6th is the start of the Bavarian school holiday, so there will be a lot of traffic in all directions. That will be reversed the following weekend as they all come back and loads of people set off who are not obliged to go in school holidays. Other than that the main traffic problems arise mid-morning (10:00-ish through to mid-afternoon (16:00) unless the weather is particularly atrocious in which case it's just bad luck!
To get from Munich Airport to Landeck-Zams the best route is to use the A9 in to Munich, then the Mittler Ring West (B2R) to the A95. The A95 takes you to Garmisch Partenkirchen. I would generally avoid using the A99 as in one direction (signposted Salzburg and Garmisch) it clogs up badly towards the junction with the A8. In the other direction (signposted Lindau) it can be confusing getting from the junction of the A99/A96 to the A95. The Mittler Ring is being seriously re-routed at the Munich end of the A95 with the biggest roadwork hold ups between the end of the A96 at Sendling and the Luise-Kisselbach-Platz which is where the A95 to Garmisch starts.
Once on the A95 drive to Garmisch. You may experience delays at the end of the A95 (Eschenlohe) as the motorway feeds into a two-lane highway (B2). When you reach Garmisch you have the choice of going to Innsbruck via Mittenwald and down the Zirlerberg or going over the Fern Pass to Imst. If the weather is OK and traffic not too heavy I would go over the Fern Pass. This brings you into Austria via some pretty spectacular scenary and to the west of Innsbruck. You do not need to buy a vignette unless you want to as you can travel from Imst on the B171 Tiroler Bundestrasse for the 8kms if you like. The 10-Day vignette is 7.90 Euro currently which is not much really and would cover you for the trip back as well. You only have a short trip on the A12 (8kms) then you turn off and take the B180 (Reschen Bundestrasse) for about 16kms.
With luck the journey should take about 3 hours but you should plan more for your return so that you are not at risk of being "geblizt" (speed cameras). These can be mobile ones in known black spots or laser pistols wherever the police feel they need to control the speed. Some are pay immediately, some are sent on to your home address. The Austrian police are known for picking on German registrations, so be careful.
As for which care hire to use, do you belong to one of the motoring organisations in the UK? Ask them if they have a members deal. I know that my membership of the ADAC gives me a preferential rate with Hertz for example if I book through the ADAC.
Good luck and ask away closer to the time about routes and weather. I've help a few snowHeads through the system of jams in the past. However there are times when the snow and the volume of traffic means you are really badly held up regardless of the best local knowledge.
Sue
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Samerberg Sue , thanks for the very thorough advice. If we fly to Munich, I will certainly follow them. The thing that scares me the most is that the return flight would leave at 10:45, which would mean very little sleep for us. 3 hours drive, check in, returning the car, some margin for the kids to pee, some margin for the wife to pee. (I'm clenching my teeth.) Some more margin, just in case.... Might as well not bother going to sleep...
Basically, I wouldn't mind taking the train, although I'd have to carry everything for two adults and two kids, but I'm afraid my wife would find a bit too stressful to throw the kids aboard a train and changing at Zurich HB. Ah well... It seems to be a cost-saver, since we wouldn't necessarily need the car during the week, anyway.
Decisions, decisions... (Can you tell this is my first DIY skiing trip?) 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
SkiingDad, FWIW, the roads will be very quiet that early in the morning, so will be a lot quicker than the outbound run. Also, as you're leaving early, presumably the kids will sleep in the car and therefore pee less often (??).
We've always found those early starts a dream in terms of the driving because of the lack of traffic.
D
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
SkiingDad, Why not leave the night before and stopover in a family room at a local hotel then? There are plenty around and at that time of year there is not a huge demand so prices could be worth it. Look at the town of Freising, just north of the airport. home of the oldest continuously run brewery in the world. Makes damned good beer too!
As Deliaskis says the roads are usually very quiet coming away from the mountains in the very early mornings but it is still about 3 hours drive at the best. With a 10:45am flight you would be needing to check in between 08:30 and 09:30 at the latest. With the return of the car etc, it would mean a very early start.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Samerberg Sue, agree it would be an early start, I have just done lots of these! We have frequently left at 4.30/5ish for return transfers! To be honest, it's fine, the only effect it has is that we have an earlier dinner on the Friday (say 7 instead of 8.30) and turn in around 10ish.
have also done hotel local to airport too - although not due to early start but due to Sunday-Saturday accom in resort, and this can be a good solution too.
D
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Samerberg Sue, that is an option that I've been thinking about a bit, but since it means paying a bit extra, I may be better off putting that money on tickets to Zurich or such. We'll see... It's not just my decision and I need to keep the costs to a minimum in order to entice some of the company to join.
Brewery, you say... mmm... Things just got a lot more interesting! I'm a big fan of Weihenstephaner.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
SkiingDad,
I realise, that I need to pay extra for snow tires, which is a scandal
|
I originally thought the same as you.
However, on arrival at Munich Airport I discovered that snow tyres are not a legal requirement in Germany but they are in Austria...
The car rental company therefore gave me the choice of whether to have winter tyres or not. As we were heading to Austria for the weekend I decided it was best to have them - which was just as well as it dumped it down with snow and we would have struggled without them (both physically and legally...)
I can't remember the exact cost but it was about €20 extra for the weekend. I seem to recall that they set a maximum "per rental" price for the tyres -so the longer the car hire period the cheaper the per day cost of winter tyres.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Bergmeister, changing to winter tyres is a five minute effort with the tools they have at their disposal. If they even need to change, that is. There's no reason for them to charge per day. If winter tyres cost extra, there's no reason why summer tyres don't.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Quote: |
If winter tyres cost extra, there's no reason why summer tyres don't.
|
I'd assumed (maybe wrongly) that chunky treads cost more 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
True that Thrifty don't put winter tyres on all their vehicles. They insisted we sign a waiver to the effect that they had told us we should pay for winter tyres before we could take our minibus (which definitely didn't have them fitted. Entertaining it was to have to pull over at entrance to Zillertal and wait to both police cars were busy examining other cars so we could make a dash for it. May pay up this year, then again, maybe not.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ghost Dog, not a good idea. If you have an accident you can be left holding the bill with no insurance and the Austrian law will shred you. Better to pay the couple of extra € I think.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bergmeister, from what I understand, they cost a bit (but not a lot) more, but they wear a lot faster, so there is an overall cost, and renting at Munich, it's not something that everyone would need, if you're just pottering around the city for a few days etc.
D
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Deliaskis, Ghost Dog, You need them in winter even in the flatlands. The German government got round the enforcement problem by saying that if you are involved in any kind of accident and your tyres are not deemed by the police/accident inspectors to be suitable for the season then you are partly responsible. This means that you probably have to fight your insurers for any cover whether that is third party or your own. As Steilhang says "do you want to take the risk?" I know I don't, hence I have two sets of tyres and rims - one set on according to the season and one set in storage at my garage. Judging by the response of my summer tyres coming down a dry but steep mountain road this morning, I might be changing over sooner than I had planned.
The car hire firms are just working a scam by charging extra for what every private car owner in Germany has to do to ensure their insurance pays up in an accident.
Has anyone any experience of the "Big Boys" rather than the cheap seats? What do Avis, National/Alamo, Hertz, Sixt and Europcar do? I can understand charging extra for snowchains, but not for making the car roadworthy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Samerberg Sue, just having a look at the sites of Hertz, Avis and Europcar, it seems that they all do it. However, eg. Europcar Zurich seems to throw in both tyres and chains for free. (Winter tyres aren't an option, so I suppose they're compulsory.)
I honestly don't know the conditions of the roads in Germany, but it seems to me that winter tyres should be enforced in any case. I may just be grumpy about it, but it doesn't seem reasonable to me to charge for such an elementary safety feature.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Samerberg Sue, agree, I probably didn't express myself very well in my last post as I also wouldn't take the risk and prefer winter tyres for a number of reasons when it's cold and there's any risk of frost/ice/snow. I suppose I meant, some people, if pottering around town, might not bother, hence why they have it on the 'optional extras' list, when in reality, most people really ought to have them. It adds to the rental price, but not nearly as much as an uninsured accident!
I've had the same optional extra charges from Europcar, never used Hertz/Avis etc.
D
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
