 Poster: A snowHead
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Why do some, normally not expert, skiers spend so much time and energy discussing the ski/type of ski they use instead of spending their money wisely on lessons?
Just thought I would ask? LOL 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Dunk, All the gear and no idea?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Nah! all the kit and I'm still sh.............. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Dunk, good question!
Some people are just gear junkies, level of expertise/skill in use of said gear has no relevance to them, it's all about the knowledge (dick swinging contest?)
I quickly lost interest in photography forums for that very reason; a lot of those forum members are just GWCs who know the finer points of how a particular lens bends light but when you look at their galleries they're filled with rather mundane pics of things like brick walls and their unattractive partners/spouses in slightly awkward provocative poses.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Because discussing gear on ski forums over the summer is free and lessons are expensive.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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New skis and lessons are not mutually exclusive
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Its easier to blame the gear than yourself?
The ski industry advertising makes some believe that new skis are the answer to getting to the next level?
Zero-G, Gear junkies, may only ski 1 or 2 weeks a year but can 'fondle their equipment all year'
.... and not all lessons are equal! Its very easy to spend a very large amount of money on lessons and get very little in return if the instructor is poor and has little understanding of teaching.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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People with money are usually the people with no time - if you work a lot to earn it, you can spend a lot on gear without consequence but it's hard to find time to actually use it. Your average holiday skier doesn't even seem to consider lessons, from experience talking to UK based friends/people.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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golf is a good example...
the hybrid golf club has made it so easy for the average golfer to hit the same distance as the traditional hard to hit long irons.
it's the same with skiing and all the points that fatbob, makes above... without all of us gear junkies (actually, i'm a wannabe gear junkie as i can't afford to actually buy much) buying the latest stuff, there would be no industry and we'd all still be skiing around on 210cm long planks of very narrow wood strapped to our feet using leather and twill  just like the amateur golfer would still be slicing his 3 iron into the trees rather than nailing a 21º hybrid into the heart of the green.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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... that's not to say lessons would not be a far better investment for many skiers or that the difference between say a mainstream 2006 and 2010 ski is such that it would merit the upgrade on performance grounds alone. I know its been done to death but I think there is a generation of British skiers who were turned off lessons many years ago by the poor quality of instruction given by the likes of the ESF and some other "national" ski schools. This has obviously changed with the introduction of many high quality independent ski schools but once people are used to bumbling along....
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My name is Marc.
I have six bikes, three sets of golf clubs, six pairs of skis and a ski/bike workshop in my cellar.
I haven't bought anything new in five days. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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I haven't bought anything new in five days.
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Still time to grab and internet bargin before the weekend
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There are equipment junkies at each end of the ability spectrum. I have no interest in raining on their parade,,, it's cool whatever revs their passion engine.
The only problem I see in it is when someone thinks finding the best ski will instantly make them a better skier. It just doesn't work that way, you can't buy skill. To find proof of that statement you only need to observe the skiing public from the lift. Shape skis were made to carve, that's what all that sidecut is all about, but with everyone riding them now how many can actually carve a turn arc to arc? And of those who can, how many have good control of their turn shape, as opposed to resembling run away trains? The answer is a very scant few.
Specific ski designs carry the potential for unique skiing experiences and for great fun, but they don't provide the skills needed to actually milk those potentials. Only working on skill development provides that. Good skiers take out specific types of skis to enjoy the unique rides they offer, not to make them better skiers. Without the necessary skills, those unique rides can never be had.
I kind of revisited that concept during my recent entry into photography. In trying to decide on what equipment to purchase I dove deeply into researching all aspects of cameras and lenses. I was spending hours looking at test results and reading reviews. I suddenly realized I was doing a great impression of the novice skier looking for that latest/bestest ski that was going to help their skiing. I was doing the same thing, looking for that top notch gear so I could make great pictures. It dawned on me that I don't do that in skiing. To me the ski I use makes little difference. I grab something that has the sidecut I want for the type of turns I want to make on a particular day, but the make of the ski is pretty meaningless to me, and it's usually far from new. My boots are now about 7 seasons old.
In the end, I grabbed an older model camera that was being discounted, and started refocusing my energies on learning the basics skills of photography. For skiers who really want to improve, I'd recommend the same course of action. Great photographers can make great pictures with any old camera, just like great skiers can make great turns with any old ski. Get a ski, any make, not too wide under foot, and plenty of sidecut, and forget about all the equipment study, and just get out there and work on learning the skills of the sport. If you get off on keeping up on all the specs of the new equipment that finds its way to the shelves each fall, cool, have at it, and have fun, as long as you understand it's not the road to greatness.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Damnit, you're all being far too rational! I was really looking forward to some gear junkie bashing.
However, you all speak the truth: if it wasn't for the experts pushing the limits of new gear, the progression of innovation would be slower. If it wasn't for the gear junkies buying the latest tech then the economies of scale would make our gear even more expensive than it is. But what Fastman says, the experts can demonstrate fine form and skill using just about any gear (with some caveats).
I suppose this is now the time to stand up and admit that I am a gear junkie of sorts. Whenever I undertake a new activity, I do spend a fair bit of time researching the gear and do buy the best I can afford and that fits my purpose. So, I often start off as one of those 'all the gear, no clue' types. In my defence, I don't then keep buying every time the gear is updated - I only upgrade when my skills outstrip the gear in hand, so to speak.
A case in point is my skis. I bought them at the end of the 2009 season and they truly have the ugliest top sheets I have seen. I have since obsessed mildly over the newer models and others in the range but until I have mastered skiing in all conditions then I have no place buying bigger guns. Poo but true.
Right, I'm off to look at pictures of the Nomads and Preachers yet again... 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I like being a gear junkie. Shiny new toys are exciting.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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buy properly fitted boots, serves both purposes, chat gear, ski better.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I could well be accused of 'all the gear and still no idea'. However, in terms of why its interesting to talk about gear I like to understand what I own, what it should be capable of if I am, In terms of skis and boots am I under or over geared in terms of the performance of what I am using, will I be able to flex the boots and skis enough/too much etc. If I am on gear of the build for the level I am at then at least I know if can't ski its me rather than over or under performing kit. Also, at the end of the day its just interesting to find out about the equipment associated with a new sport.
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Good skiers take out specific types of skis to enjoy the unique rides they offer, not to make them better skiers.
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Could'nt agree more! For sure there's no way people could do some of the things that I've seen happen on big rockered planks on skinny slaloms, but to milk the "unique rides" you need to put in the time learning the foundations of skiing. Case in point was some of the guys I was riding with a couple of seasons ago, they all wanted to be Tanner Hall in the park but wouldn't (or couldn't be arsed??) to put in the time and practise required with "normal" skiing to get to a decent level in the pipe!
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| FastMan wrote: |
I kind of revisited that concept during my recent entry into photography. In trying to decide on what equipment to purchase I dove deeply into researching all aspects of cameras and lenses. I was spending hours looking at test results and reading reviews. I suddenly realized I was doing a great impression of the novice skier looking for that latest/bestest ski that was going to help their skiing. I was doing the same thing, looking for that top notch gear so I could make great pictures. It dawned on me that I don't do that in skiing. To me the ski I use makes little difference. I grab something that has the sidecut I want for the type of turns I want to make on a particular day, but the make of the ski is pretty meaningless to me, and it's usually far from new. My boots are now about 7 seasons old.
In the end, I grabbed an older model camera that was being discounted, and started refocusing my energies on learning the basics skills of photography. For skiers who really want to improve, I'd recommend the same course of action. Great photographers can make great pictures with any old camera, just like great skiers can make great turns with any old ski. Get a ski, any make, not too wide under foot, and plenty of sidecut, and forget about all the equipment study, and just get out there and work on learning the skills of the sport. If you get off on keeping up on all the specs of the new equipment that finds its way to the shelves each fall, cool, have at it, and have fun, as long as you understand it's not the road to greatness. |
I had exactly the same thoughts this week. I only got into skiing a little over 3 years ago whereas I have been golfing for nearly 40 years having been brought up a half wedge from the 18th green of an Open championship course. I suppose I have an inate understanding of golf equipment which would allow me to discount 90% of gear in a shop when browsing - too upright, too flat, shafts not stiff enough, crap brand, grips too thick, appears to lie closed/open etc etc. Stuff I just know. I play with clubs that are 10 years old, buying new clubs I doubt would take even a shot off my average round. I just wouldn't consider it. We used to play 3 club challenges, when you use just 3 clubs instead of the normal 14. I could shoot maybe 5 worse than my handicap. I occasionally go and lash shots at the range but I know the easiest way for me to knock a couple of shots around off is to solely practice putting from 10 ft and chipping from just off the green - that is the way to role 3 shots in to 2.
Ski equipment is a different ball game - so to speak. Camber, kicker, twin tip, torsional rigidity, side cut, big shovel etc. It's a foreign language. I have asked about skis on here and half the replies you get are either borderline abusive or clearly from people who know less than me. I know enough to know my original skis - Rossi X Fight 4 - I have outgrown, for want of a better word. I know in my head that like the golf/photography analogy the equipment probably doesn't make that much difference - but my heart is taking me to the Blues sale next Friday determined to blow some cash.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Dunk, its not just limited to skiing, but most forms of pastime where equipment is used. I have quite a bit of experience in both golf and bike racing. In bike racing you would see 17 stone blokes spending thousands and thousands on the latest titanium nuts and bolts for their latest model superbike and expecting to be on the pace! This massive weight disadvantage coupled with bad technique and/or knowledge led to only ever average results and would do whatever they were riding. Once saw one chap who was bragging about a £3000 titanium exhaust system he had purchased from a world superbike team then proceed to fill his fuel tank up to the brim therefore massively reducing the weight saving and/or the power advantage the exhuast gave him!.....and it was only for a 6 lap practice session!! Golf was the same with hackers spending £400 on a driver only to slice it 80 yards into the trees on the first!!
I'm almost certain its the same in most sports/pastimes!
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FAQ
