 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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slider_tom, Done the survey and wishing Mary all the best with her project - hope the hard work pays off! Data collection for Psychology students can be an absolute nightmare - particularly when measuring attitudes as people always complain that it's long-winded and that you've asked them the same question over again. I had to convince a bunch of bankers to spend 45 mins of their time on a questionnaire... it was like getting blood from a stone...
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Is this research (into attitudes) publicly funded? (*)
Anyone agree with me that it's a luxury item? If not, how much of your own money would you put towards it?
(*) IIRC Surrey Uni derives the highest percentage of its income from non-government sources of any British uni, so the answer might be 'no' or (more likely) 'partly'. It would be interesting to know the nature of any other funding organization for this research.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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laundryman, Excellent care to work in a baggage allowance/flight delay angle as well?
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| laundryman wrote: |
Is this research (into attitudes) publicly funded? (*)
Anyone agree with me that it's a luxury item? If not, how much of your own money would you put towards it?
(*) IIRC Surrey Uni derives the highest percentage of its income from non-government sources of any British uni, so the answer might be 'no' or (more likely) 'partly'. It would be interesting to know the nature of any other funding organization for this research. |
Hmm. That depends on what you mean "publicly funded". Mary pays to do her MSc, but I guess that she does not directly pay the supervisor's wages. Neither does she directly pay the wages of the person who actually runs the software that allows for the survey to be accessed over the internet.
So, I suppose that you could say that a tiny part of the survey would indeed be publicly funded... 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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slider_tom, thanks for the reply.
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I did to try to complete the questionnaire but (pretty much as usual) got frustrated by ill-posed questions. "Do you feel that helmets provide sufficient protection?" (probably not an exact quote) - which helmets? against what?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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most people who complete a survey about making helmets mandatory, will be people who think helmets should be mandatory...
sorry but i dont see why anybody should be allowed to tell me what i do or dont wear.. i dont even think motorbike helmets should be mandatory ..
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| CANV CANVINGTON wrote: |
most people who complete a survey about making helmets mandatory, will be people who think helmets should be mandatory...
sorry but i dont see why anybody should be allowed to tell me what i do or dont wear.. i dont even think motorbike helmets should be mandatory .. |
Well, I am not sure where the idea that "helmets should be mandatory" has been derived from the survey - indeed there is less than 5 % of the questions (as a rough estimate) asking about feelings about mandatory helmet use or strength of that opinion. This is NOT a survey about making helmets mandatory (or otherwise) It is about what helmet users and non-helmet users think...
There is no hidden agenda.
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You know it makes sense.
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slider_tom, If you will take a minor observation, I don't know how the survey software can work, but it's a pity it couldn't remove, for example all the snowboarder questions when you first answer that you only ski. On some pages I tried not answering the parallel snowboarders versions of the questions and it wouldn't let me go on until I had done so. I expect there are also snowboarders that don't ski - we don't all do everything.  I do wonder if this won't skew the results as you will/could get parallel responses from skiers and snowboarders when in actual fact it won't be actual valid results - if you see what I mean?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| slider_tom wrote: |
| CANV CANVINGTON wrote: |
most people who complete a survey about making helmets mandatory, will be people who think helmets should be mandatory...
sorry but i dont see why anybody should be allowed to tell me what i do or dont wear.. i dont even think motorbike helmets should be mandatory .. |
Well, I am not sure where the idea that "helmets should be mandatory" has been derived from the survey - indeed there is less than 5 % of the questions (as a rough estimate) asking about feelings about mandatory helmet use or strength of that opinion. This is NOT a survey about making helmets mandatory (or otherwise) It is about what helmet users and non-helmet users think...
There is no hidden agenda. |
That may be the intention. As a someone who does not wear a helmet I thought many of the questions were worded to suggest that I was in the wrong.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| fatbob wrote: |
| easiski, the key point is that the answers will be skewed from sampling from a self selected population who are 1) sufficiently geeky to be on a ski forum in mid summer and 2) care enough about helmets to answer a fairly tedious questionnaire about them. Its a problem all questionnaire based methods have in that you never capture enough of the population who can't be bothered or are too busy to answer. I'd expect a supervisor to have a good attack at the data validity for that. |
Are you suggesting there's correlation between geeky skiers and helmet usage?
Yes, there could be. But I would argue it's unlikely to be significant at all.
In any case, all forms of survey will suffer from "selected" sample due to the venue. I've been stopped mid-stride to complete "a short survay". I simply brush the surveyer aside and moved on.
So, "random selection" are never truely random. But often times, one can be quite sure the bias are less than the statistic deviation itself. Therefore, the sample pool is NOT biased.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think the result will be biased. I don't wear a helmet most of the time, but think that not wearing a helmet while tree skiing is mental. However, the survey is so tedious, that I started it and got bored, so didn't complete it. People who have a mission to convert everyone to helmets will make the extra effort to complete the survey. There are a fair number of 'you must always wear a helmet' extremists, but probably not many 'you should never wear a helmet' extremists.' - I've never met anyone in the 'must never wear a helmet' camp, so most of the completed surveys will come from the 'must always wear a helmet people.'
It would be more realistic to have the survey ask one question.
Should you always wear a helmet
Yes
No
It depends
Don't care
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Q1 has already got me...
Please indicate your level of skill?
Beginner/out of practice
Intermediate (major difficulties on demanding sections of pistes)
Advanced/proficient (can manage most pistes)
Expert (can manage difficult pistes at speed and with control)
.... is it not a big leap from 'can manage most pistes' to 'can manage difficult pistes at speed and with control'
what about the pretty obvious bit inbetween 'can manage difficult pistes with control' ??....
or is it just me?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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See even a survey about helmets can provoke arguments - time to ban them once and for all in the interests of world peace?
abc, I think there must be correlation to some extent because web geeky skiers spend more time year round talking virtually about skiing, I'd guess they have more skiing days on average than the non web geek and spend more on kit so they don't have the barrier to helmet wearing a "casual" skier has e.g. its not worth it, I only go once a year and don't do the hardest runs.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sat 17-07-10 10:03; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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fatbob, that would well and truly ... err ... put a lid on it 
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| flangesax wrote: |
Q1 has already got me...
Please indicate your level of skill?
Beginner/out of practice
Intermediate (major difficulties on demanding sections of pistes)
Advanced/proficient (can manage most pistes)
Expert (can manage difficult pistes at speed and with control)
.... is it not a big leap from 'can manage most pistes' to 'can manage difficult pistes at speed and with control'
what about the pretty obvious bit inbetween 'can manage difficult pistes with control' ??....
or is it just me? |
Alas, when running a survey as part of dissertation or work the can be published we have to work off previously published models or constructs. If more snowheads published scientific papers which include ski/snowboard levels, then we would have more sophisticated scales, models, etc.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Since all my skiing is off piste it was a bit of a fag filling in the same questions twice. Also I have no knowledge of ski schools - only of guides.
I don't wear a helmet but feel it is quite sensible to wear one and perhaps I should. The survey brought out this inconsistency but didn't really ask enough questions to bring out why I haven't done it yet.
I didn't like it when I hired one (it moved around on my head and was unsafe so I took it off) - but I'm sure there would be ones I could buy which fit better.
More important I felt enclosed and less free. (I feel the same about goggles and sunglasses but have to wear them against the glare and otherwise my eyes water). I overheat and in hot weather I usually don't wear a hat.
But most important I already take a roll of memory foam for my bad back (in my back-pack as hand luggage). With all my other off-piste kit, skis, boots, shovel, etc - and now rope and harness - I don't see how I could find room for one in airline luggage.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Sat 17-07-10 17:47; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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snowball, You could alway wear it in transit!! 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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slider_tom... nicely phrased and slightly overcomplicated defensive responce...
It is a bad selection and a bad question which has a huge impact on the skill level in relation to the helmet opinion within the survey.
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You know it makes sense.
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| easiski wrote: |
Thornyhill, That would hardly be valuable for someone's MSc would it? Like many you seem to have missed the point of the survey in the first place. I don't think your assumption is in any way correct as it happens. People are not either totally for or totall against IME. A helmet would not have stopped me from having my jaw broken unless it was full face!
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No you missed my point entirely. The survey is so tedious that many of the the people who don't really care either way won't bother to complete it. Only the people on a mission will complete it. I've never met anyone with a missions to ban helmets, but I know a few with a mission to make them compulsory, so the people most likely to complete the survey are those that think they can decide that everyone else needs a helmet. If you are basing your MSc on that, then the finding will be flawed
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thornyhill, From what a few people have agreed with, the general* consensus could appear to be that whilst a lot of people think that helmets are a very good idea, a lot of people also strongly DISagree with making them mandatory -at least, that's my view.
*By that I mean a whopping 3 or 4 people lol
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Thornyhill wrote: |
The survey is so tedious that many of the the people who don't really care either way won't bother to complete it. Only the people on a mission will complete it.
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You don't KNOW that! You just assumed it. That's the exact opposit of scientific work.
The whole purpose of the survey was about what people THINK ABOUT helmet itself. So "people on a mission" would have their basis of believe exposed. It wasn't about WHETHER it should be made compulsory.
| snowball wrote: |
| Since all my skiing is off piste it was a bit of a fag filling in the same questions twice. |
I put that in the comment field they should have an option of "same as on-piste"! For both off-piste and park. Ideally, it should pre-fill the answer with the same as on-piste and allow the survey taker to change a few of the answers. For example, I didn't feel helmet is any MORE warranted in the park or outside, since I do jumps off natural objects when one exist (outside the park). However, if I were to go to the park to specifically pratice inverted arial, a helmet would be extremely important! (no, I don't do arials, never mind inverted).
My only minor complain about the survey is it's still feels like it's designed by a non-skier! Or at least someone who doesn't ski too much variety of terrains. As easiski and you had pointed out, not all off-piste is created equal. Personally, I'm less intimidated by rocks than by trees. So while I don't feel strongly about wearing a helmet when rocks are present, I won't venture into glades without one!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| flangesax wrote: |
slider_tom... nicely phrased and slightly overcomplicated defensive responce...
It is a bad selection and a bad question which has a huge impact on the skill level in relation to the helmet opinion within the survey. |
I beg to disagree that it is either a 'bad question' or that it will have a huge impact on the rest of the survey.
However, for the moment lets say that we agree that the levels as stated:
Advanced/proficient (can manage most pistes)
Expert (can manage difficult pistes at speed and with control)
are insufficiently defined in order to discriminate between higher ability skiers. How would you do it in a way that will be meaningful to skiers at all levels of ability?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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slider_tom, Personally (and nothing to do with the survey), I get fed up with the assumption that speed is an essential part of being expert! It's done all the time and not all expert skiers wish to ski fast all the time!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| slider_tom wrote: |
| flangesax wrote: |
slider_tom... nicely phrased and slightly overcomplicated defensive responce...
It is a bad selection and a bad question which has a huge impact on the skill level in relation to the helmet opinion within the survey. |
I beg to disagree that it is either a 'bad question' or that it will have a huge impact on the rest of the survey.
However, for the moment lets say that we agree that the levels as stated:
Advanced/proficient (can manage most pistes)
Expert (can manage difficult pistes at speed and with control)
are insufficiently defined in order to discriminate between higher ability skiers. How would you do it in a way that will be meaningful to skiers at all levels of ability? |
Beginner - From 0 to managing blues
Early Intermediate - Can ski reds, may be able to survive some blacks
Advanced Intermediate - Confidently ski all pistes, maybe dabble in offpiste
Advanced - Confidant in most reasonable terrain, inc bumps, powder, other offpiste conditions
Expert - Very profficient in all areas, ISIA/ISTD level instructor standard, at a level where you could compete in races/freeride/freestyle/moguls/etc
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Helmets and ability scales. All we need now is winter tyres to enter the debate and we have the holy trinity of snowHeads discussion points...
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Sorry, I started but gave up a few pages in - I found some of the questions and their phrasing thoroughly annoying and ridiculously repetitive and I'm not wasting my time answering questions about what my mates etc think over and over and over and over again when I don't give a toss what they or anyone else thinks - at the very least you need a "none of the above" option.
I wouldn't claim to be an expert but part of my degree was in sampling methods etc and I'm afraid this is one of the poorer surveys I've seen (and I include ones I've filled in out of the goodness of my heart for GCSE BTEC students - they at least were shorter!)
For the record I wear a helmet when on snow but as far as I'm concerned if adults choose not to then that's their choice and they shouldn't be forced to against their will.
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Wahaaay I like wild uninhibited parties!!! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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protosaurus, and do you wear a helmet at them?
a) never
b) sometimes
c) always
I put "no" for the parties. I don't want to get a reputation!
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maggi, and do your friends think you should wear a helmet:
a) never
b) sometimes
c) always
Do your entire family think you should wear a helmet ... do your workmates think ... does your next door neighbour ... the bloke down the pub on a Saturday night ... does your dog...
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FAQ
