 Poster: A snowHead
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It will still yield quantitative rather than qualitative data, even though it's concerned with patterns of response and correlations of values across domains rather than the actual values themselves. Mary has explained that she's comparing responses of helmet users and non-helmet users (rather than the prevalence of particular beliefs amongst the general snowsports population, what proportion wear helmets, how many think they should be mandatory etc. etc.) and why she was obliged to use a questionnaire that involved a number of questions that are probably not relevant to her particular study... large enough sample, equal representation of users/non-users... recognition of limitations of any questionnaire-based self-selection bias... and it should be an interesting report (whatever the doomsayers think  )
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
large enough sample
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getting that would be the main difficulty IMO. How many from here have completed it... 15-20? Less? Finding a large enough sample of "normal" skiers & boarders isn't that easy and (gross generalisation alert) snowHeads aren't really representative of Johnny Public who goes once or twice a year and wouldn't be bothered with discussing or thinking much about the subject outside of that time.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| snowHeads aren't really representative of Johnny Public |
You're right, I suspect snowHeads are more likely to get in a huff about what exactly is meant by the word "helmet" and stop answering questions than all the other people Mary will have asked to complete the survey
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miranda, it's just conceivable that they might be puzzled by what is meant by the term 'injury'. A minor cut? Heavy facial bleeding? severe bruises? Concussion? Worse? It's a bit like being asked if you believe that mankind is increasing global warming. Clearly the literal answer is yes; CO2 is without doubt a greenhouse gas. But whether mankind's contribution to global warming is significant is another matter more open to debate.
Similarly if I am asked whether I believe that a helmet prevents injury, the answer could be 'it depends what you mean'. When I wear a helmet - as I often do, it is because I have no doubt that it will prevent some cuts and bruises. yet some of the opening posts of this thread talked about fatal skiing accidents. So quite possibly I should have answered 'no' - since I do not believe that helmets would have helped there. As long as their work can be treated as therapy for academics who might otherwise have to do real work, no real harm is done. I just hope no one would treat the results seriously.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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achilles, totally agree with you. (And nobody's ever called me miserable! .)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| slider_tom wrote: |
| Invitation to take part in a study of attitudes and beliefs regarding helmet use in snowsports. |
achilles, i think the point of the survey is 'how' you answer the vague questions or how you answer questions similar but put slightly different, and not really whether you can answer correctly - every one may consider different levels for 'injury' but have the same basic belief that 'injury' is reduced by wearing a helmet, be it having your skull fractured or receiving a bang from the chair lift bar; every one will put their own interpretation to injury but they may well answer the question in exactly the same manner. Sometimes the comparison/difference of respective answers is more important than the actual answer itself. The report is after people's attitude and belief and not a set of correct answers.
I agree the questions were annoying though and way too vague for a typical ski geek (i.e. snowHead) profile 
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achilles, I was actually only kidding... but if it turns out that the survey is about the specific types of injury that people seek to avoid whilst wearing helmets then you are, of course, correct in your view that this is a pants survey and should be viewed as harmless, pointless distraction for bored acadmics
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I was very much annoyed by that very same question which bothers achillies so much.
My answer was very defensive. "No, I did not believe it would help prevent injuries". I did glance down the page to see if the same question were being asked differently so that I could qualify my answers in different light. But no, there was none.
Though in this case, it's closer to the truth than I realized. I've never had ANY bang of my head while skiing, however minor (but plenty of minor ones while mtn biking). Had that question been asked in the mtn bike context, my answer would had been un-trueful! 
Yes, I'm one of those who wear a helmet for reason OTHER than fear of concussion and brain injury! And I'm very defensive about my being used as an example for the wrong thing!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| abc wrote: |
| Yes, I'm one of those who wear a helmet for reason OTHER than fear of concussion and brain injury! |
To protect your hair?
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| PJSki wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| Yes, I'm one of those who wear a helmet for reason OTHER than fear of concussion and brain injury! |
To protect your hair? |
Warmest hat found.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| abc wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| Yes, I'm one of those who wear a helmet for reason OTHER than fear of concussion and brain injury! |
To protect your hair? |
Warmest hat found. |
Spoken like someone who skis on the east coast…
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| slider_tom wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| Yes, I'm one of those who wear a helmet for reason OTHER than fear of concussion and brain injury! |
To protect your hair? |
Warmest hat found. |
Spoken like someone who skis on the east coast… |
A.K.A. "Ice Coast"
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| abc wrote: |
| slider_tom wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| Yes, I'm one of those who wear a helmet for reason OTHER than fear of concussion and brain injury! |
To protect your hair? |
Warmest hat found. |
Spoken like someone who skis on the east coast… |
A.K.A. "Ice Coast" |
There is a bit of folklore about this with a group of skiers under instruction saying something along the lines of:
"we cannot ski on this stuff no how -this is bullet proof!" to which the instructor calmly pulls out a handgun, proceeds to fire into the slope and once the ears stop ringing - says "this is not bullet-prrof - the slug is 1/4 inch in..."
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You know it makes sense.
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slider_tom, LOL - I think I wrote in my responses that a helmet keeps my head warm too!! Poor you, 5 pages now, I bet you're wishing you'd never asked us  Kudos for keeping at it and coming back with a steady stream of reponses.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Survey pedants please help... I notice that this survey has also been posted up on Racer Ready and Britski websites. As both those sites are almost 100% helmet-wearing racers, would it not skew the results as they are even less representative of Johnny and Joanne Public. In an attempt to get the sample size up has the result been compromised? There you go, there's a good few pages in that?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Bode Swiller, Perhaps part of the study (it is a Masters level study is going to be pretty long and involve a number of different hypotheses) involves comparing the beliefs and attitudes of those who have to wear helmets and those who do not but that choose to anyway? I'm sure Mary's experienced and qualified supervisor is better able of assessing and advising on this than snowHeads, given that the supervisor knows the details of the study and we do not and are just speculating. Pointlessly. Because neither Mary nor Tom will reveal the hypotheses of the study whilst the questionnaire is still running as that actually is something that would skew results. Anyway, I now feel like a confirmed snowHead as I have participated in my first (and hopefully last) helmet thread! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've just done the survey. I deliberately didn't think too much about the questions, just clicked merrily away.
I do worry about the 'helmetisation' of society. One of my ski buddies has the following collection of helmets:-
- a ski helmet
-a climbing helmet
-a caving helmet
-a cycling helemt
-a motorbike helmet
-a construction industry helmet
Where next, maybe fell runners and cross country runners should wear helmets (stylish, technically advanced, purpose designed and expensive of course). Participants in these sports often travel down hills at speed and run serious risks of head injuries from rocks and trees when falling. I'm sure there is some medical evidence somewhere to back me up.
What asbout pedestrians using zebra and pelican crossings? Lots of head unjury potential there.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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miranda, no, you're not a proper until you do a Pandora. Also your post above wasn't expert jargon-laden enough. Must try harder.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Bode Swiller, Thank God.. there is still hope of escape then... 
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miranda, but you are on the slippery slope ..... 
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| Spud9 wrote: |
I've just done the survey. I deliberately didn't think too much about the questions, just clicked merrily away.
I do worry about the 'helmetisation' of society. One of my ski buddies has the following collection of helmets:-
- a ski helmet
-a climbing helmet
-a caving helmet
-a cycling helemt
-a motorbike helmet
-a construction industry helmet
Where next, maybe fell runners and cross country runners should wear helmets (stylish, technically advanced, purpose designed and expensive of course). Participants in these sports often travel down hills at speed and run serious risks of head injuries from rocks and trees when falling. I'm sure there is some medical evidence somewhere to back me up.
What asbout pedestrians using zebra and pelican crossings? Lots of head unjury potential there. |
Hmm. I am not a sociologist/anthropologist but I wonder if the general society drive towards safety has something to do with both increasing standards of living and lower birth rates-perhaps as parents have fewer children they tend to worry more about them?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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You forgot purple helmet. I think 'helmetisation' of society is a ridiculous concept to suggest. Technocological advances and reduced costs means that comfortable helmets at reasonable prices can be bought by every tom, dick and harry to keep safe when doing something that is demonstrably dangerous.
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| Quote: |
demonstrably dangerous.
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Please demonstrate.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Bode Swiller, as in ski into a tree, or something?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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laundryman, ah yes those gnarly immovable objects you are meant to avoid. They don't discriminate between those with or without lids I'm afraid and, in any case, hitting a tree is a demonstration of poor technique, poor mountain craft, not a demonstration of why snow sports are dangerous... Because they aren't but some of the people that do them are.
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Bode Swiller, I wasn't really trying to make a point in that direction and am sympathetic to your point of view. I just chose to interpret 'demonstrate' literally. But I'm sure you don't really want michaelf to ski into a tree.
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You know it makes sense.
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laundryman, no that would really hurt. But if our sport is being labled "demonstrably dangerous" I for one would like some concrete evidence. When I go skiing I see the odd blood wagon, occasional helicopter and an incident or two but, moreover, I see thousands of uninjured folks just having a non-dangerous good time. Helmet hysteria just makes people imagine that it's Hell on Earth on the piste, and it just isn't. Most accidents are due to a loss of control - that's a technique and/or physical conditioning issue. Collisions are mostly avoidable - a mountain craft issue. Most injuries don't involve the head. My argument is that those are the areas to concentrate on (the causes) not getting all mandatory about helmets.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Not the speed that's dangerous it's the people unable to cope with their speed.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Bode Swiller, I agree.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| Not the speed that's dangerous it's the people unable to cope with their speed. |
Rubbish. These idiots may have good control but they leave little or no margin for error. Should their technique or reactions to outside influences fail for a moment, they are demonstrably fucked.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| Not the speed that's dangerous it's the people unable to cope with their speed. |
Indeed.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| Not the speed that's dangerous it's the people unable to cope with their speed. |
Indeed. |
These people unable to cope with their speed, is that the people down slope, who cannot see what is coming from behind them, who then inadvertantly turn into the path of the speedster, who is then unable to avoid a collision, as a result of being too fast for the conditions or surroundings?
Nah, forget it, I can't be bothered......
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| Not the speed that's dangerous it's the people unable to cope with their speed. |
Indeed. |
Rubbish. These idiots may have good control but they leave little or no margin for error. Should their technique or reactions to outside influences fail for a moment, they are demonstrably fucked.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Tue 27-07-10 11:16; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The Voice of Reason, it's the people who endanger or frighten others as a result of going too fast.
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| The Voice of Reason wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| Not the speed that's dangerous it's the people unable to cope with their speed. |
Indeed. |
These people unable to cope with their speed, is that the people down slope, who cannot see what is coming from behind them, who then inadvertantly turn into the path of the speedster, who is then unable to avoid a collision, as a result of being too fast for the conditions or surroundings?
Nah, forget it, I can't be bothered...... |
Correct. These idiots may have good control but they leave little or no margin for error. Should their technique or reactions to outside influences fail for a moment, they are demonstrably fucked.
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FAQ
