 Poster: A snowHead
|
As I'm doing my annual umming and ahhing over whether to do a BASI level 1 course this summer. I thought I'd ask the question - what level does your personal skiing have to be at to meet level 2?
I suspect my problems wouldn't be in flow/ comfort in terrain but in technical precision/right BASI mindset etc. Would a level 1 trainer over a week be able to give an accurate view of how much work one needed to do personally for level 2/3? Clearly in terms of teaching experience the answer is a lot. I'm also never likely to pass a Eurotest so question whether its worth trying to get into if i) its only a vague idea of an option I'd like to have available and ii) I have a bit of scepticism about the financial breakeven point given the vast money pit BASI training seems to be?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
fatbob, before I did my L1 I had a private lesson with a Trainer to ask for feedback on what level I was in terms of BASI qualifications and whether my ambitions were realistic. His advice was spot on. If you're interested in that kind of feedback you might be interested in this day?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
rob@rar, I knew that was a likely response 
High opportunity cost of a day mid week (same time off work as a full course split over weekends). Other point is I don't really have clear unambiguous ambitions to assess myself against nor even appropriate skis to perform my best in a closed environment. I'm pretty confident I could pass a BASI L1 course with no specific prep, and actually if I failed that in itself would be quite useful feedback.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
fatbob,
More seriously, you wouldn't need to do a whole L1 to decide if you were up to L2 or L3. Obviously it would be the first step in starting work on the BASI ladder, but a couple of hours with a Trainer (in the mountains) would give you a good idea of where you were in terms of progressing up the BASI system.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
fatbob, Like all things doing the course will answer allot of questions for you.
Yes a trainer over a week would be able to give you a quite accurate reflection of where you are and what is required in fact someone like rob@rar, who does allot of it would probably be able to do it in a morning using a good selection of drills to highlight your flaws or positives.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
fatbob, From seeing you ski several times, you're obviously very comfortable on skis and are not fazed by speed or terrain, however you style of skiing suits the type of terrain that you enjoy skiing, namely off-piste/powder on fat skis. Whether you have the toolkit for the piste precision and central theme, is something that would need to be assessed.
A lot of good skiers can't do a decent snowplough and as for plough-parallel, forget it - ask Rob.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Spyderman, I know allot of instructors that can not demo a poor snowplough
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Spyderman, Nail on head I think. I'm not bad at snowploughing though I'll need to be reminded where my hips "need" to be. Plough parallel - now I think that was somewhere in the stem turn progression back in the day (still not adverse to the odd stem when a turn really has to be nailed - this makes me a pussy obviously).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
fatbob, from what i can work out, plough parallel is BASI speak for stem these days [waits to be corrected on the subtle differences]
assuming the standard is similar to when i sort-of did it, i don't think you'll need to do too much work but you'll need to get into the pisten-carven mindset
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
fatbob, can I ask how much teaching you think you might do, and where you would want to do it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
fatbob, CSIA? far less faffing
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
DaveC, out of interest, is there much demand for non-Canadian instructors, with or without CSIA, who want to work for a week or two in Canada? Are there contracts available during peak time, and if so are there any visa issues?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I don't know, tbh. From my perspective, when it's busy, yes it's mental. Whether that's the business plan/intention to be just short of staff rather than overstaffed, who knows. Fernie's only a small hill though really, Whistler might behave differently. Sponsored visas are pretty much sorted by the ski school, as long as you have CSIA2 (or equivilant, I think) but that happens at the start of the season so drop in work wouldn't be possible without pre-planning.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
skimottaret, fair play. And your heli fund point is a good one. I'm not "that" anti lesson and in fact took quite a few this past winter , although of course I do exagerate the learning by doing point here to provide a bit of debate. I'm also a bad learner in that I get bored by things I can do and very frustrated quite quickly when I can't & of course a bit cynical of the explosion of the whole instructor training industry. If I'm anti BASI its mainly because as an outsider I'm befuddled by the whole complexity of it all.
I know I'd have to clean up quite a bit or relearn some fundamentals. And to answer rob@rar's question its unknown, I suspect I'd quite enjoy doing some teaching, particularly of kids but in the dream lottery win scenario I'd be living in a small town in BC and teaching maybe 3 days a week for fun so BASI would be largely irrelevant. So I'd be thinking of a toe in the water rather than a first step on a career path.
Edit to add I do have some experience of Instructor training in that many moons ago I passed a CASI Level 1 Snowboard instructor course. I loved the discipline it brought to my riding and the the quality of training but have never taught for reward using it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| fatbob wrote: |
| And to answer rob@rar's question its unknown, I suspect I'd quite enjoy doing some teaching, particularly of kids but in the dream lottery win scenario I'd be living in a small town in BC and teaching maybe 3 days a week for fun so BASI would be largely irrelevant. So I'd be thinking of a toe in the water rather than a first step on a career path. |
I think it's important you answer that question before deciding what your plans are otherwise you might end up committing to a route that's not great for what you want, BASI or CSIA for example, or maybe spend up spending a lot of time on stuff like learning to snowplough 'properly' when it would be better off spending that money on high quality instruction to improve your own performance, or just waste it on heliskiing
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
fatbob, if you get easily frustrated that may hamper you as trainers prize versatility and the ability to make changes... what did your instructors recon over the winter? did you ask the question of them?
not sure they run L1's indoor over consecutive weekends, you may want to check that...
the csia site has some video of people at each Level so you can gauge where your own performance. i put up some vidoe of skimottaret junior the other day in BZK and i would say she would pass an L2 but would have to make changes during the two weeks. off piste at L2 is graded lower than piste performance and not too difficult so being a good off piste skier doesnt get you much im afraid until you get to L3.
as an aside i had asked on EPIC some time ago what the americans and canadians thought of basi qualifications and the response was positive, so even if the dream was to teach in Canada a basi L2 would be okay and if you are at that standard i would think the exams for CSIA would be pretty straightforward if you needed to get that badge for local kudos.
| Quote: |
I loved the discipline it brought to my riding
|
same will go for alpine, you should go for it!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
fatbob, I think another important point is that CSIA/CASI 1 levels aren't particularly hard. Pushing yourself for 2 in either structure will add some real reward to your own skiing though. One of the things I love about instructing is the structure for my own progression - and it'll suprise you how competencies are linked.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| DaveC wrote: |
| fatbob, I think another important point is that CSIA/CASI 1 levels aren't particularly hard. |
That's the thing that always amazes me about the likes of nonstop. I'd gone out just before Xmas and the snow cover wasn't very good so decided to do a course that was starting basically on the spur of the moment for something useful to do.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Yeah, they do well out of it for sure. From another angle though, they do get a lot of attention in their groups from some very good instructors. I can never really weigh up the gap year courses - to me, they seem like a waste since they're so structured and run for profit - but if you do price up the amount of instruction they get, along with all the bundled stuff, it's kind of reasonable.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
but what real use is the CSIA if you are not wanting to teach in canada
fine if
A you don't want to teach and are just doing it for performance
B you want to go to canada to each
if you do want to take it further long term (and not teach in canada, sorry Dave not knocking canada (well i am really)) then you would need to do a conversion or look at BASI
you are a Brit, go through the British system, at least then you have a qualification which is usable at a higher level in europe
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CEM, no experience of it, but apparently everywhere but France is fine with CSIA. Dunno though, tell you the season after this one what NZ or Japan's thoughts are...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
DaveC, do you not need a first aid cert and mountain safety module or something for all those countries..not hard to get i guess .....but i know there are a whole load of pissed off people without an ISIA stamp
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| DaveC wrote: |
| CEM, no experience of it, but apparently everywhere but France is fine with CSIA. |
What level CSIA badge allows you to teach in France?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
rob@rar, I'm confused by your question  DaveC, said teaching in France is a problem with a CSIA qually
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Spyderman wrote: |
| rob@rar, I'm confused by your question DaveC, said teaching in France is a problem with a CSIA qually |
Oops, I mis-read Dave's comment (thought he said CSIA was fine in France). Sorry for the confusion!
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
rob@rar, I think CSIA4 is ISIA still... on the plus (ish) side if you're going for the Eurotest then the training probably syncs up quite well! I'm not thrilled about the lack of ISIA but nevermind. I think equivilancy/makeup courses are being discussed for the future tho.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
DaveC, basi will be sitting rubbing their hands mmmm "you went to canada because it was cheaper/quicker...mmm you want an ISIA stamp ..that'll be ££££££££ ker ching"
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| fatbob wrote: |
| As I'm doing my annual umming and ahhing over whether to do a BASI level 1 course this summer. |
I wouldn't bother. Just a personal opinion though.
If you want to become a ski instructor and teach in a ski school then the only badges that are worth the metal they are made from are L3 and L4. The L1 and L2 should just be seen as stages towards getting the badge.
Regardless of what you may hear, the EU is jumping into the ski industry and you will soon need an ISIA stamp or card to teach anywhere within the EU. May take a while for the French to come around but they will, eventually.
Don’t think the ISIA will be needed in snow-domes or dry slopes though, but if you’re looking to teach skiing in a ski environment you will, maybe rob@rar, or skimottaret can give the heads up on what's needed to teach in the UK.
The cost in time, effort and disruption to life, not to mention the financial costs to gain the first acceptable level (L3) is considerable. If you are serious about becoming a ski teacher then go for it, but from your post I think that (maybe wrong here) you would be better going on a personal skills course and just having some fun.
BASI course really ain't difficult to pass, if you're the right standard. But the time and money required to attend all the course is considerable, so if you're not really sure about it then it may be an idea not to even start.
If you do decide to go for it, forget the Canadian system unless you're Canadian or you live in Canada, if you're British then go for BASI - seems obvious to me.
Your personal skiing can be assessed by any BASI trainer that you can book a course with. They will always give you the heads up on where you are and also be able to provide feedback.
I don’t have a clue (without looking at the BASI website) what number of courses you’ll need to pass to reach the L3 as it keeps changing all the time. But if you contact BASI by email then will be happy to let you have the current list.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Wayne wrote: |
| I don’t have a clue (without looking at the BASI website) what number of courses you’ll need to pass to reach the L3 |
This is the current requirement:
Common Theory (1 week course)
Technical Training & Assessment (2 weeks)
Teaching Training & Assessment (1 week)
BASI Mountain Safety (1 week)
Second Discipline (BASI Level 1 in another discipline, 1 week course)
Alpine Development Coach or Alpine Freestyle Development Coach L1 (3 days)
Alpine Development Coach or Alpine Freestyle Development Coach L2 (4 days)
Second Language (telephone interview)
Sports coach UK Modules (You have to buy some books; you can even read them if you want)
Before you do the Teach and Tech assessments you must log 200 hours of teaching for a recognised ski school. To be issued with your licence you have to also complete an (online) child protection module, be CRB checked (now the basic check rather than the enhanced check) and have a valid 1st aid certificate.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| Wayne wrote: |
| rob@rar, or skimottaret can give the heads up on what's needed to teach in the UK. |
A level 1 qualification from any national system. Most people at Hemel have BASI, but plenty of CSIA, some PSIA and a few others as well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
| This is the current requirement: |
It's much more than I think for someone who does not even have a L1
Also, does anyone know the approx. cost of getting L3 from strach.
Anyone worked it out. Course fees, transport, insurance, accom, meals, lift pass,etc,etc. Maybe best not too
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
you will soon need an ISIA stamp or card to teach anywhere within the EU
|
curious, do you know something or is that just speculation?
| Quote: |
If you want to become a ski instructor and teach in a ski school then the only badges that are worth the metal they are made from are L3 and L4. The L1 and L2 should just be seen as stages towards getting the badge.
|
not sure i agree with that L1 and L2 are perfectly adequate to teach within their remits, you dont need an L3/L4 to teach beginners.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Wayne wrote: |
| I don’t have a clue (without looking at the BASI website) what number of courses you’ll need to pass to reach the L3 |
This is the current requirement:
Common Theory (1 week course)
Technical Training & Assessment (2 weeks)
Teaching Training & Assessment (1 week)
BASI Mountain Safety (1 week)
Second Discipline (BASI Level 1 in another discipline, 1 week course)
Alpine Development Coach or Alpine Freestyle Development Coach L1 (3 days)
Alpine Development Coach or Alpine Freestyle Development Coach L2 (4 days)
Second Language (telephone interview)
Sports coach UK Modules (You have to buy some books; you can even read them if you want)
Before you do the Teach and Tech assessments you must log 200 hours of teaching for a recognised ski school. To be issued with your licence you have to also complete an (online) child protection module, be CRB checked (now the basic check rather than the enhanced check) and have a valid 1st aid certificate. |
I understand that you now need 'coaching' shadowing between the coaching modules too, which highlights that it's a moving target from the time you start to the time you finish.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| david@mediacopy wrote: |
| I understand that you now need 'coaching' shadowing between the coaching modules too, which highlights that it's a moving target from the time you start to the time you finish. |
Yes, that's right.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
david@mediacopy, i think the shadowing requirement is a good step forward, i thought it was nuts that you could rock up without any quals do a coach L1 and L2 and be fully qualified, the cscf has a trained and certified status which you get after doing your shadowing/being mentored..
speaking of moving targets the L3 coach has changed about 3 times this year. first you needed the Eurotest, then they changed it having to have an ISIA, now it is L2 instructor plus you now need 200 hours experience which is tough to get at 2 hours a session!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
skimottaret,
| Quote: |
| i think the shadowing requirement is a good step forward, |
Yes, it makes sense. The hours required didn't seem too difficult to get, at least if there is a race club operating by you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CEM, BASI have no relation to getting an ISIA stamp for CSIA members, but yeah, I imagine they spend a lot of their time rubbing hands/saying "ker-ching" fwiw, I think even paying full whack which is easy to avoid, going from CSIA1-4 without any fails costs about $2000. I imagine BASI courses cost a fair bit more, given they all seem to be 2 weeks+.
Needing ISIA to teach anywhere seems ridiculous. It'd basically price smaller ski schools out of teaching beginners, surely?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| skimottaret wrote: |
| curious, do you know something or is that just speculation? |
Common knowledge.
| DaveC wrote: |
| Needing ISIA to teach anywhere seems ridiculous. It'd basically price smaller ski schools out of teaching beginners, surely? |
At least that way, regardless of the level of student, you will have a teacher who has been assessed to meet the minimum standards of the ISIA. There are very few ski school that only teach 1st week begginers. If a teacher who is working now isn't happy about it they can just go on the courses and get the stamp. If they can't get the stamp then it "may" say something to a student wishing to hire that teacher or a school director thinking about employing them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Wayne, and you really think that there're enough working ISIA instructors to fill every ski school demands for every program? All ISIA kids instructors? I think you're living in cloud cuckoo a bit mate.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
if your goal is to get to L2 and do some mountain teaching you will probably need to work on your technique a bit...
)